Another Amp Question

[BigWheeledWagon]

So, with all the amp talk going on here lately, I've decided to seek advice from those around here about an amp issue I have. I've got an old Fender Bassman 10 that I've been pretty happy with for years. Back in the days when I actually played in bands, it was a great amp that gave me plenty of power. Now, however, I mostly use it for home recording, and, well, it's too loud. Playing it a volumes loud enough to get it to break up is inconvenient at best. I don't have the most soundproofed home studio, and cranking the thing seems to generate lots of rattles, etc. from around the room.

 

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with attenuators or other such methods of getting the amp to break up at lower volumes (and I'm not talking about overdrive pedals). Would I just be better off getting a smaller amp for recording(something I will probably do in a few years anyway)?

[a.miller]

1 -- you could get something like a Fender Pro Jr. and build a sound isolation box for it. That's one option.

 

2 -- You could build an isolation box for the bassman, but it would be really damn big

 

3 -- If your amp has an adjustable bias, you can have your amp biased much hotter, so it will breakup at lower volumes -- note that if it is biased too hot, you'll burn out tubes and possibly the amp.

 

4 -- Use an attenuator (as you suggested). They're used in studios all the time. Just do some research. Like with biasing, you can burn your amp up.

[jimmyjimmy]

I think Mr. Miller (above) has pretty much covered all the alternatives in addressing the problem with regards to your Bassman. I was pretty much in the same boat a few years back when I opted to ditch a Twin I was using and go w/ smaller lower output amps.

 

Here's something I think you should consider: If your not playing out, and I don't either really, do you really want a big amp around the house? Having small amps has been very convenient for me in that, A.) They take up very little floor space B.) look nice in my home C.) Break up at reasonably low volume levels with an undoubtedly sweeter grind than I'd ever hoped to achieve before and are just sonically very flexible.

 

I don't mean to keep plugging these things here but the reason I chose that Macht 12 I use is that it's only 12W with a built in attenuator that cut's it back to 6W with the flip of a single toggle switch. Perfect feature for me since I'm a habitually lazy bastard when it comes to dialing in the sound for the room. It's shockingly loud@12W when you dime it out w/loads of headroom and @6W you can nail anything you want with a modest bit of distortion to something more extreme.

Only drawback, no reverb tank and I really miss that.

 

BTW, if anyone knows of a great external/pedal Reverb lemmie know.

The Electro Harmonix stuff makes nice enough sounds but they are just unbearably noisy.

[oceanman]

Groove tubes makes a tube that bakes up at at lower volumes in a Class A mode called the Power Reducer. Turns a 50 -60 watt amp into a 20 - 40 watt amp.

[rileykill]

I have a 4X10 Bassman combo and recording at home is a bit of a challenge. But, I don't want to trade down just yet. My solution is to use a clean boost to drive the tubes to breakup. A MXR Micro Amp (or something similar) won't add any distortion via circuit ... it will make your tubes burn hotter. I can get great breakup at about a 2.5 or 3.

 

Of course, if you want a small boutique amp go for it ... but don't trade off your larger amp and then wish you had it when it's time for a gig.

[oceanman]

but don't trade off your larger amp and then wish you had it when it's time for a gig.

That's why I would kind of head in the reduced tube direction,just switch them out when you need to.

 

edit:and there is a thing called a volume pedal!

[BigWheeledWagon]

I have a 4X10 Bassman combo and recording at home is a bit of a challenge. But, I don't want to trade down just yet. My solution is to use a clean boost to drive the tubes to breakup. A MXR Micro Amp (or something similar) won't add any distortion via circuit ... it will make your tubes burn hotter. I can get great breakup at about a 2.5 or 3.

 

Of course, if you want a small boutique amp go for it ... but don't trade off your larger amp and then wish you had it when it's time for a gig.

 

While getting a new amp is an option (though not an immediate option -- I just spent a pretty good bit on my custom replacement strat body), I have no intention of getting rid of the old Bassman (like you, I have the 4x10 and really love it in spite of the challenge it presents in recording) even though I no longer play out. Plus, silverface Bassmans (Bassmen?) don't exactly command amazing sums of money when sold (one of the reasons I came into possession of my amp in the first place -- not many older Fender tube amps can be had for $300). I was leaning toward an attenuator until I can really invest in a nice smaller amp (perhaps even one of those pricey boutique amps we've been discussing recently), but perhaps I will try the Micro Amp solution for now -- getting the Bassman to break up between 2.5 and 3 would be perfect.. I'm just tired of having to settle for overdrive/distortion coming from a pedal or for getting great amp sounds at louder levels but settling for lots of extra noise from the room, etc. when recording. Does anyone else have any experience with the MXR Micro Amp or another pedal of its ilk?

 

Anyway, I appreciate all the feedback on my dilemma -- I'm always impressed with how many well-informed and helpful musicians frequent this board (though the good musical taste goes without saying). As much as I love Wilco, I've found myself checking "Solid State Technology" much more often than "Just a Fan." No longer being part of an actual real-world musical community (with very few exceptions -- pretty sad, considering that I live in Nashville, where it seems every third person is a pretty good musician), this board has been a nice substitute. Thanks again for all the good advice.

[jff]

edit:and there is a thing called a volume pedal!

 

 

Do volume pedals give you an overdriven sound at a lower volume...like an attenuator? Or are they just foot controlled volume knobs?

 

Sorry, that's probably a dumb question, but I have no experience with volume pedals.

[a.miller]

Do volume pedals give you an overdriven sound at a lower volume...like an attenuator? Or are they just foot controlled volume knobs?

 

Sorry, that's probably a dumb question, but I have no experience with volume pedals.

Just like the volume knob on your guitar, but with the foot.

[BigWheeledWagon]

Just like the volume knob on your guitar, but with the foot.

 

Exactly -- the only real difference is that you can place it further along in your effects chain so that the effects are getting the full signal of your guitar but the amp is getting a softer signal from the effects (or any various other combinations of guitar volume/pedal volume /chain placement). It's also nice for volume swells, pseudo-reverse playing, etc. that might be a little harder to pull off using your volume knob (if you're playing slide, you can emulate some pedal steel-type effects). You can also use it for a short dose of tremolo-type effect (though it would be pretty tiring to use it in place of a full-fledged tremolo pedal set on a moderate setting and impossible for a faster setting). It can be nice to have at the end of your effects chain so that you can kill all signal going to your amp with one quick foot motion. Also, a lot of volume pedals have an separate output out to a tuner so that you can cut the volume to the amp but still send a signal to your tuner so that an audience doesn't have to hear you tune up between songs.

[BigWheeledWagon]

I think Mr. Miller (above) has pretty much covered all the alternatives in addressing the problem with regards to your Bassman. I was pretty much in the same boat a few years back when I opted to ditch a Twin I was using and go w/ smaller lower output amps.

 

Here's something I think you should consider: If your not playing out, and I don't either really, do you really want a big amp around the house? Having small amps has been very convenient for me in that, A.) They take up very little floor space B.) look nice in my home C.) Break up at reasonably low volume levels with an undoubtedly sweeter grind than I'd ever hoped to achieve before and are just sonically very flexible.

 

I don't mean to keep plugging these things here but the reason I chose that Macht 12 I use is that it's only 12W with a built in attenuator that cut's it back to 6W with the flip of a single toggle switch. Perfect feature for me since I'm a habitually lazy bastard when it comes to dialing in the sound for the room. It's shockingly loud@12W when you dime it out w/loads of headroom and @6W you can nail anything you want with a modest bit of distortion to something more extreme.

Only drawback, no reverb tank and I really miss that.

 

BTW, if anyone knows of a great external/pedal Reverb lemmie know.

The Electro Harmonix stuff makes nice enough sounds but they are just unbearably noisy.

 

I use the Electro-Harmonix Holy Grail, and I haven't found it to be "unbearably" noisy (well, not normally -- sometimes it acts up a little), but it's certainly not as nice as having reverb built into the amp.

 

Regarding your Macht 12: what type of speaker does yours have? Color? (just curious). Anyway, it sounds like a great amp, but given its fairly steep price, I may just keep saving a little longer and go after a Swart Atomic Space Tone. Even though the 6W cut is a nice feature on the Macht, I think I could probably still get the 15W Swart to break up at volumes my home studio could handle. Oh well, these are just pipe dreams for the time being. If using some kind of signal boost doesn't get the desired results, I may have to get a Blues, Jr. or something for the meantime. I should probably search the previous posts for discussions about good, low-priced 12-15W tube amps.

[Groo]

I use the Electro-Harmonix Holy Grail, and I haven't found it to be "unbearably" noisy (well, not normally -- sometimes it acts up a little), but it's certainly not as nice as having reverb built into the amp.

 

Regarding your Macht 12: what type of speaker does yours have? Color? (just curious). Anyway, it sounds like a great amp, but given its fairly steep price, I may just keep saving a little longer and go after a Swart Atomic Space Tone. Even though the 6W cut is a nice feature on the Macht, I think I could probably still get the 15W Swart to break up at volumes my home studio could handle. Oh well, these are just pipe dreams for the time being. If using some kind of signal boost doesn't get the desired results, I may have to get a Blues, Jr. or something for the meantime. I should probably search the previous posts for discussions about good, low-priced 12-15W tube amps.

 

The Fender Pro Jr. is like sex covered chocolate when it comes to amps that break up nicely at lower volumes.

[jimmyjimmy]

I use the Electro-Harmonix Holy Grail, and I haven't found it to be "unbearably" noisy (well, not normally -- sometimes it acts up a little), but it's certainly not as nice as having reverb built into the amp.

 

Regarding your Macht 12: what type of speaker does yours have? Color? (just curious). Anyway, it sounds like a great amp, but given its fairly steep price, I may just keep saving a little longer and go after a Swart Atomic Space Tone. Even though the 6W cut is a nice feature on the Macht, I think I could probably still get the 15W Swart to break up at volumes my home studio could handle. Oh well, these are just pipe dreams for the time being. If using some kind of signal boost doesn't get the desired results, I may have to get a Blues, Jr. or something for the meantime. I should probably search the previous posts for discussions about good, low-priced 12-15W tube amps.

 

RE: The Grail.

It's what I'm using too. There are moments when I can discern that underlying hiss that just drives me batty. Usually when the gain is rolled off and the volume is up pretty high.

 

Macht 12X:

http://www.savageamps.com/index.cfm?id=7&s=1

And

05 GuitarPlayer Mag review (Model reviewed lacks the attenuator option)

 

Mine has the standard blue 12" Mojotone BV-30V. Running Electro Harmonix EH 6V6GT tubes.

"Dreamcicle" orange tolex, w/white control panel and orange chickenhead knobs.

 

And as a disclaimer If I had to choose between the AST and the Macht 12X I'd pick the Swart all day long.

The only bad thing about these Amps (besides the expense) is that you have to make pilgrimages to test drive them.

Worth it tho....

[BigWheeledWagon]

Okay, so I've narrowed it down to two options for the meantime:

 

1) going with a power boost like the MXR Micro Amo; or

 

2) getting a little Fender Champ for recording purposes (I'm leaning toward this option)

 

 

I've got a nice little coupon for Musician's Friend due to a little warehouse mix-up that took place over the summer that I can use before the end of February, so it would make either option relatively inexpensive. So, does anyone have any experience with the Champ? At the low price, I may even be willing to try modding it eventually (for example, Torres sells a tube rectifier kit). Or should I spend the extra money for a Pro, Jr.? Truthfully, the 5W output of the Champ appeals to me as a recording amp that can be overdriven at low volumes. Anyway, let the discussion continue.

[Groo]

Okay, so I've narrowed it down to two options for the meantime:

 

1) going with a power boost like the MXR Micro Amo; or

 

2) getting a little Fender Champ for recording purposes (I'm leaning toward this option)

 

 

I've got a nice little coupon for Musician's Friend due to a little warehouse mix-up that took place over the summer that I can use before the end of February, so it would make either option relatively inexpensive. So, does anyone have any experience with the Champ? At the low price, I may even be willing to try modding it eventually (for example, Torres sells a tube rectifier kit). Or should I spend the extra money for a Pro, Jr.? Truthfully, the 5W output of the Champ appeals to me as a recording amp that can be overdriven at low volumes. Anyway, let the discussion continue.

 

The Champ will probably suit you better than the PJR, I think. The PJR gets pretty damn loud, and the Champ sounds almost as good.

[a.miller]

That Champ looks like a sweet little amplifier. Let us know how it turns out.

[oceanman]

They just reissused the Fender Vibro Champ!

[Moss]

A guy is offering to sell me a handmade 3x10 Supro Tremolectric amplifer, mint condition for around $1000. Sounds like a great deal to me. Anybody have experience with these amps?

 

 

 

[PopTodd]

A guy is offering to sell me a handmade 3x10 Supro Tremolectric amplifer, mint condition for around $1000. Sounds like a great deal to me. Anybody have experience with these amps?

 

 

No.

But I want some.