Wilco and atheism

[i'm only sleeping]

Hi,

While surfing the net for scientific info. I stumbled with this post about

[Central Scrutinizer]

Hi,

While surfing the net for scientific info. I stumbled with this post about

[mfwahl]

Yeah, that's way off. Theologians is pretty spiritual. ("God is with us everyday"). I'd say it's just as much an affront to atheists along with anyone else who professes to know or believe in dogmatic thought. If you want to call it something, maybe agnostic.

[jakobnicholas]

If I'm wrong, I'll be whacked by many dingbat sticks, but Theologians doesn't deal with faith vs. atheism. It's that those who profess to know, don't truly know.

 

 

 

That's kinda how I took Theologians.

 

 

I've always got the impression from Tweedy's songs and interviews that he's at least somewhat spiritual. I don't think he's pro-religion at all, but it's my feeling that he believes in something greater and of higher power....though I have no idea to what degree and how enthusiastically.

[Wendy]

Yes, we've discussed this topic before at VC, and so I searched on the word "religion" and here are some links to some previous threads on this subject which might shine some light on your discussion.

 

http://forums.viachicago.org/index.php?showtopic=28283

 

http://forums.viachicago.org/index.php?showtopic=24578

 

http://forums.viachicago.org/index.php?showtopic=24027

[keeprockalive88]

I think it was in between an Austin City Limits show Tweedy said something along the lines of music is proof of a creator, because music on a small level is a creation that WE can create. And if we can create something out of nothing, then there must be something bigger that can create us. Something like that. Either way, the implication that I got was that Tweedy (religious or not, believes in some higher being).

 

I think with Theologians he's saying "you don't know me!" I think it's more of a jab at fundamentalism where everyone is judged for not obeying the specific life paths in the same way Loose Fur's "Ruling Class" jabs at fundamentalism close-mindedness of Jesus coming back as this glorious person. Where as Tweedy takes a more "realistic" side saying that if Jesus comes back he'll be more of an everyman or a social outcast/someone the fundamentalists wouldn't approve of (aka Jesus wasn't approved of in his time by the religious elite sort of thing so why would he come back as a person approved by the religious elite).

[i'm only sleeping]

Yes, we've discussed this topic before at VC, and so I searched on the word "religion" and here are some links to some previous threads on this subject which might shine some light on your discussion.

 

http://forums.viachicago.org/index.php?showtopic=28283

 

http://forums.viachicago.org/index.php?showtopic=24578

 

http://forums.viachicago.org/index.php?showtopic=24027

 

Oops, sorry! My own searches for "religion"in VC were unsuccesful. Thank you! Anyway, I bet that Tweedy is an agnostic. Someone said that an atheist is simply an angry agnostic...

[mastershake]

i think tweedy definitely believes in some sort of god - he has many songs full of religious imagery. i don't see anything in theologians that would suggest he is atheist, but honestly i couldn't put into words what that song (or any of his songs) mean. i don't think i can form sentences well enough to do it justice.

[Central Scrutinizer]

I think it was in between an Austin City Limits show Tweedy said something along the lines of music is proof of a creator, because music on a small level is a creation that WE can create. And if we can create something out of nothing, then there must be something bigger that can create us. Something like that. Either way, the implication that I got was that Tweedy (religious or not, believes in some higher being).

 

I think with Theologians he's saying "you don't know me!" I think it's more of a jab at fundamentalism where everyone is judged for not obeying the specific life paths in the same way Loose Fur's "Ruling Class" jabs at fundamentalism close-mindedness of Jesus coming back as this glorious person. Where as Tweedy takes a more "realistic" side saying that if Jesus comes back he'll be more of an everyman or a social outcast/someone the fundamentalists wouldn't approve of (aka Jesus wasn't approved of in his time by the religious elite sort of thing so why would he come back as a person approved by the religious elite).

That's an excellent point about Loose Fur. Those songs have buckshot, but you don't attack those sorts of approaches towards something you don't care about.

 

And thanks for the links. I didn't think to search it, I was just responding to the original post. Great content to be mined here.

[Party @ the Moontower]

WTF! http://www.1in3trinity.com/drink.html I had no idea. Maybe Wilco needs an energy drink.

 

I don't care if JT believes in God or aliens, I just like the rock-n-roll. I don't spend a lot of time on any artist's lyrics trying to uncover their soul and understand them. Where's the mystery in that? Maybe that's why I like Cash, Dylan, and older bands, cause they are stories left somewhat untold, and not in my face like Brittney Spears. I like JT being far out there and hard to understand. I like him better as a common man (rock god in plain man clothing) with a family and a sensitive heart. That's the part I relate to, who he seems to be now. Sure, It was sort of neat to see him several times behind venues totally spent and signing autographs, but now I see him as a man who is more than just his music, and I want to let him be.

 

I get annoyed when people pry @ my religious beliefs then run when I say I do not have a need to choose one, assuming I am somehow lost as a result. Having a baby certainly makes one consider the possiblities though. There are seen many rock gods that find faith after having kids and falling in love. Same goes for us average people.

 

I think this girl in who left a comment said it best, "I don't need my lack of faith affirmed in everything I do. Christian contemprary/rock/zydeco is NOT what we want to emulate in any way, shape, or form. Anyway, I think if I could be said to have any religion, it would be rock 'n' roll. Rock and various other popular musical genres have been sort of elbowing religion out of its former privileged places in culture, and that's fine with me."

[sweetheart-mine]

as an agnostic, i hear the agnostic in jt. spiritual, full of possibilities, but put off by organized religion.

[sweetheart-mine]

I don't spend a lot of time on any artist's lyrics trying to uncover their soul and understand them. Where's the mystery in that?

there's plenty of mystery in the lyrics and plenty of mystery in the soul. that's one big reason some people DO talk about them and ponder them. you don't get to final answers, you know. it's contemplation of mystery itself.

[Party @ the Moontower]

there's plenty of mystery in the lyrics and plenty of mystery in the soul. that's one big reason some people DO talk about them and ponder them. you don't get to final answers, you know. it's contemplation of mystery itself.

 

I do ponder, just don't care to have it figured out. Reminds me of classes where we had to pick apart various pieces of written work until you almost hated the original and wanted to puke. I love how I gave my take on a story once only to recieve a big fat C because the teacher didn't see it that way. Who knows how the authour really felt anyway.

[Central Scrutinizer]

there's plenty of mystery in the lyrics and plenty of mystery in the soul. that's one big reason some people DO talk about them and ponder them. you don't get to final answers, you know. it's contemplation of mystery itself.

Excellent point. It's not the destination, it's the journey.

[Central Scrutinizer]

as an agnostic, i hear the agnostic in jt. spiritual, full of possibilities, but put off by organized religion.

I don't know if being agnostic is the same as being conflicted by organized religion. Your beliefs should -- and can -- be decided outside of that arena.

You can be agnostic about your faith and an athiest of the church!

[Good Old Neon]

I always just sort of assumed the song was referencing some fella named Theo Logins, and how, despite what he might think, Theo doesn

[Central Scrutinizer]

I always just sort of assumed the song was referencing some fella named Theo Logins, and how, despite what he might think, Theo doesn

[bjorn_skurj]

Hi,

While surfing the net for scientific info. I stumbled with this post about "atheist rock"

 

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/08...utm_medium=link

 

Where Wilco and a quote from "Theologians"

[jesus et cetera]

I always just sort of assumed the song was referencing some fella named Theo Logins, and how, despite what he might think, Theo doesn’t know a damn thing about Jeff Tweedy’s soul.

 

Am I barking up the wrong tree here?

 

 

Well, this is the impression I was under as well.... atheism? Spirituality? What?

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

as an agnostic, i hear the agnostic in jt. spiritual, full of possibilities, but put off by organized religion.

He seems agnostic to me. Has some ideas, but doesn't cleave to them too closely, etc. I'm not agnostic, so I'm not projecting.

[Central Scrutinizer]

He seems agnostic to me. Has some ideas, but doesn't cleave to them too closely, etc. I'm not agnostic, so I'm not projecting.

This was obviously from a few years ago from Calvin College (Nov. 10 is a Monday this year). http://www.calvin.edu/admin/sao/calendar/i...jeff_tweedy.htm

 

Jeff Tweedy is the lead singer and principal lyricist for Wilco, an iconic Midwestern band that both defines and pushes the boundaries of alt-country music. Though the group's line-up has changed and its sound has swung from twangy roots to noise-rock and everywhere in between, Tweedy has been the bedrock of Wilco since its inception in 1994. The depth and breadth of Tweedy's musical experimentation is evident on the band's latest release, last year's critically acclaimed A Ghost Is Born.

 

His lyrics have always been equal parts vague and

enlightening when it comes to the "otherness" of life. While he is openly disdainful of organized religion and its historical abuses, Tweedy is also well-spoken about its redemptive elements. "I think we live in a culture that is spiritually sick and could really use an environment that values spirituality again," he told Paste magazine following rehab from an addiction to painkillers. "The whole point of any religion I've read about is you're not alone. ... I find music to be incredibly spiritual whether or not it has any of that content whatsoever. That's why it's such an elemental part of our lives."

[Good Old Neon]

Can you be an atheist and believe in the soul?

 

As an atheist, I do not believe in an incorporeal soul that exists outside the body, but I still often refer to consciousness as

[Central Scrutinizer]

As an atheist, I do not believe in an incorporeal soul that exists outside the body, but I still often refer to consciousness as

[Good Old Neon]

I am sorry to hear about your father. I've had to deal with that with parents as well.

 

Thank you, and I am sincerely saddened to learn of your similar experience.

 

However, I don't think you know that the soul is impacted by the physical deterioration of the brain. You have lost a means of communicating with it.

 

Or, given everything we now know with the help of neuroscience and brain imaging, human biology, evolution, etc - different parts of our brain are responsible for certain functions (with a boat load of overlapping and synergy as well of course), and when a portion of a brain is compromised, specific functions related to that area are damaged and/or lost as well. And given that zero evidence exists for the existence of an incorporeal soul, outside of religion and certain schools of philosophy, the evidence is strongly in favor of a material basis for our consciousness, soul, or however you choose to define it.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Thank you, and I am sincerely saddened to learn of your similar experience.

 

Or, given everything we now know with the help of neuroscience and brain imaging, human biology, evolution, etc - different parts of our brain are responsible for certain functions (with a boat load of overlapping and synergy as well of course), and when a portion of a brain is compromised, specific functions related to that area are damaged and/or lost as well. And given that zero evidence exists for the existence of an incorporeal soul, outside of religion and certain schools of philosophy, the evidence is strongly in favor of a material basis for our consciousness, soul, or however you choose to define it.

There's only one sure way to gather true evidence, and we all know what that is. I'm not ready to do that field research.

 

This won't solve anything, but I just enjoy this joke:

 

A scientist invents a way of creating life, of breathing life into dirt with a cosmic ray he's developed. He says to God, "Hey, God, I can breath life into dirt! We scientists don't need you anymore!"

 

God says, "Let me see."

 

The scientist sets up his equipment, a complex array of tubes and gauges and dials and a chamber where his cosmic ray gets focused just right. He picks up a handful of dirt and goes to put it in the chamber, where life will be breathed into it.

 

"No, no," God says. "Get your own dirt."