8th election thread

[hazel]

haha, check out mcSAME checking out palin,....funny thing is when i first saw this on tv this was the first thing i noticed too!, said to myself, wow look at him how hes looking at her, did you know he was cheating on his first wife (who was also a beauty queen) while she was crippled after being in a car accident? the man makes me sick. god help us if they win.

 

[Gobias Industries]

and now, some humilitating partisan dancing

 

I only missed a couple of them. Really the best way is to not actually look at the dancers but look around them, i.e. demographic or any signs/posters/whatever that would give hints towards the affiliation. The dancing is still all bad though, I love it.

[sweetheart-mine]

haha, check out mcSAME checking out palin,....funny thing is when i first saw this on tv this was the first thing i noticed too!, said to myself, wow look at him how hes looking at her, did you know he was cheating on his first wife (who was also a beauty queen) while she was crippled after being in a car accident? the man makes me sick. god help us if they win.

 

 

this was posted before, and i'm not sure i buy it. wasn't he standing next to her rather than behind her? i thought he was merely looking at her notes on the podium. seriously, i'm not sure the interpretation is fair. i know he's not too sharp, but it's hard to believe he'd be that obvious.

[Beltmann]

It's a funny image, but not for a second do I believe McCain was checking out Palin.

[sweetheart-mine]

The New York Times

September 13, 2008

 

McCain Barbs Stirring Outcry as Distortions

By MICHAEL COOPER and JIM RUTENBERG

 

Harsh advertisements and negative attacks are a staple of presidential campaigns, but Senator John McCain has drawn an avalanche of criticism this week from Democrats, independent groups and even some Republicans for regularly stretching the truth in attacking Senator Barack Obama

[kwall]

Then he falsely claimed that Mr. Obama supported “comprehensive sex education” for kindergartners (he supported teaching them to be alert for inappropriate advances from adults).

 

For anyone who wants to see the whole bill (including the recommended deletions and additions), it's here. Note that an amendment was offered after the initial vote that included leaving the minimum grade at 6 and inserting the "age appropriate" language in the section of the bill that everyone has been discussing. The only place the age appropriate qualifier appeared in the original is in a section amending the Comprehensive Health Education Program (which I think is the actual source of the sex ed programs that the other parts of the bill assume already exists).

 

That said, the bill (or at least the original version) would have expressly lowered the grade for sex ed, whatever the content might be, from 6 to K. I'm really not sure what sort of education regarding HIV and other STDs is appropriate for a kindergartener, to be honest.

 

As for the claim that this would really be about teaching these kids about "inappropriate touching" -- well, I don't see that in the statute. . . . Maybe I've missed something in the substance of the bill, but so far I can't find anything that really supports what Obama's camp claims it's about.

 

typical nyt reporter campaigning for obama instead of reporting the facts.

[sweetheart-mine]

typical nyt reporter campaigning for obama instead of reporting the facts.

 

typical kwall, not even able to appreciate a report that looks at the distortions by the obama campaign as well as the mccain campaign. i guess i'll go back to reports that focus almost exclusively on the lies and distortions of the mccain campaign, which tend to be far more egregious and plentiful. thanks so much for helping me see the light.

[sweetheart-mine]

typical nyt reporter campaigning for obama instead of reporting the facts.

 

here, from factcheck.org . if you want to believe that idiocy about obama, go ahead. i agree with steve chapman, former The New Republic editor and contributor to other conservative publications, and quoted at the end of this factcheck.org piece:

 

Chapman: ... the ad itself doesn't bother explaining how the candidates differ on school vouchers, the subject of my column. Instead, it insults our intelligence by expecting us to believe that Obama thinks kindergarteners should be taught how to use condoms before they're taught to read. Right. And Joe Biden eats puppies for breakfast.

 

Off Base on Sex Ed

 

September 10, 2008

 

A McCain campaign ad claims Obama's "one accomplishment" was a bill to teach sex ed to kindergarten kids. Don't believe it.

 

Summary

A McCain-Palin campaign ad claims Obama's "one accomplishment" in the area of education was "legislation to teach 'comprehensive sex education' to kindergarteners." But the claim is simply false, and it dates back to Alan Keyes' failed race against Obama for an open Senate seat in 2004.

 

Obama, contrary to the ad's insinuation, does not support explicit sex education for kindergarteners. And the bill, which would have allowed only "age appropriate" material and a no-questions-asked opt-out policy for parents, was not his accomplishment to claim in any case, since he was not even a cosponsor – and the bill never left the state Senate.

 

In addition, the ad quotes unflattering assessments of the Illinois senator's record on education but leaves out sometimes equally harsh criticism directed at McCain in the same forums.

 

Analysis

The ad is called "Education" and has received a good bit of free airtime, having been run repeatedly on cable news networks. It pairs pictures of kindergarten children with Obama looking confused.

 

A Factual Failure

 

McCain-Palin 2008 Ad: "Education"

 

McCain-Palin Ad "Education"

 

Announcer: Education Week says Obama “hasn’t made a significant mark on education.” That he’s “elusive” on accountability. “A staunch defender of the existing public school monopoly.” Obama’s one accomplishment? Legislation to teach “comprehensive sex education” to kindergarteners. Learning about sex before learning to read? Barack Obama. Wrong on education. Wrong for your family.

 

John McCain: I’m John McCain and I approved this message.

The ad claims "Obama's one accomplishment" in the realm of education was "legislation to teach 'comprehensive sex education' to kindergarteners."

 

It's true that the phrase "comprehensive sex education" appeared in the bill, but little else in McCain's claim is accurate. The ad refers to a bill Obama supported in the Illinois state Senate to update the sex education curriculum and make it "medically accurate." It would have lowered the age at which students would begin what the bill termed "comprehensive sex education" to include kindergarten. But it mandated the instruction be "age-appropriate" for kindergarteners when addressing topics such as sexually transmitted diseases. The bill also would have granted parents the opportunity to remove their children from the class without question:

 

SB 99: However, no pupil shall be required to take or participate in any family life class or course on HIV AIDS or family life instruction if his parent or guardian submits written objection thereto, and refusal to take or participate in such course or program shall not be reason for suspension or expulsion of such pupil.

 

The bill also called for all sex education course materials to include information that would help students recognize, among other activities, inappropriate touching, sexual assault and rape:

 

SB99: Course material and instruction shall discuss and provide

for the development of positive communication skills to maintain healthy relationships and avoid unwanted sexual activity. ... Course material and instruction shall teach pupils ... how to say no to unwanted sexual advances ... and shall include information about verbal, physical, and visual sexual harassment, including without limitation nonconsensual sexual advances, nonconsensual physical sexual contact, and rape by an acquaintance. The course material and instruction shall contain methods of preventing sexual assault by an acquaintance, including exercising good judgment and avoiding behavior that impairs one's judgment.

 

The bill passed in the Health and Human Services Committee with Democrats, including Obama, voting along party lines in support of it. But the measure promptly stalled and died in the full Senate, and no action has been taken on it since late 2005.

 

Obama is often quoted as saying that when it comes to sex education in public schools, “it’s the right thing to do ... to provide age-appropriate sex education, science-based sex education in schools,” placing an emphasis on the word "appropriate." But Obama has also said he does not support, "explicit sex education to children in kindergarten."

 

In a debate with Republican Alan Keyes, against whom Obama was running for an open seat in the U.S. Senate in 2004, Obama made it clear that at least one reason he supported the bill was that it would help teach young kids to recognize inappropriate behavior and pedophiles:

 

Keyes, Oct. 21, 2004: Well, I had noticed that, in your voting, you had voted, at one point, that sex education should begin in kindergarten, and you justified it by saying that it would be "age-appropriate" sex education. [it] made me wonder just exactly what you think is "age-appropriate."

 

Obama: We have a existing law that mandates sex education in the schools. We want to make sure that it's medically accurate and age-appropriate. Now, I'll give you an example, because I have a six-year-old daughter and a three-year-old daughter, and one of the things my wife and I talked to our daughter about is the possibility of somebody touching them inappropriately, and what that might mean. And that was included specifically in the law, so that kindergarteners are able to exercise some possible protection against abuse, because I have family members as well as friends who suffered abuse at that age. So, that's the kind of stuff that I was talking about in that piece of legislation.

 

Besides the Obama-Keyes race, this allegation also surfaced during this year's party primaries when Mitt Romney claimed Obama supported sex education for five-year-olds. (Obama misleadingly fired back that Romney supported the same policy.)

 

. . .

 

Cherry-Picking Quotes

 

The ad also features three cherry-picked quotes from the media, highlighting negative comments about Obama's record and ignoring those directed at McCain. The announcer quotes Education Week contributing blogger David Hoff, saying, "Education Week says Obama 'hasn't made a significant mark on education.' " The quote is accurate. But the ad leaves out a quote Hoff gathered from Arizona's Casa Grande Elementary School Superintendent Frank Davidson:

 

Davidson (via Education Week): I don’t think [McCain] has a strong track record of putting education at the top of his priorities.

 

McCain had used the information about Obama before, and in response, blogger Hoff encouraged readers of the magazine's election blog to "Read the Obama story and the McCain story and you can decide who has a better track record on K-12 issues." We agree, you should.

 

The ad then quotes a July 7 editorial from The Washington Post, which said "that he's 'elusive' on accountability." Those words did appear in The Post's July 7 editorial. At the time, McCain had no education plan to critique, but later, in August, The Post revisited both candidates' proposals and said McCain's was "both late in coming and still a work in progress." It also said "of the two, Mr. Obama has given the issue more attention."

 

The last quote used in McCain's ad is attributed to the Chicago Tribune and says that Obama is "a 'staunch defender of the existing public school monopoly.' " This is actually from a piece by Steve Chapman, former associate editor of The New Republic and contributing writer to Slate and the conservative publications The Weekly Standard and The National Review. The piece isn't a Chicago Tribune editorial at all, though it's made to appear that way in the ad. And Chapman, none too pleased about how his opinion piece was featured in the ad, responded in a Sept. 10 Tribune blog entry with this:

 

Chapman: ... the ad itself doesn't bother explaining how the candidates differ on school vouchers, the subject of my column. Instead, it insults our intelligence by expecting us to believe that Obama thinks kindergarteners should be taught how to use condoms before they're taught to read. Right. And Joe Biden eats puppies for breakfast.

 

We couldn't have said it better, Mr. Chapman.

 

–by Emi Kolawole

Sources

Krol, Eric. "Obama clarifies sex ed views at Benedictine," Chicago Daily Herald. 6 Oct. 2004.

 

Hoff, David. McCain vs. Obama: The Whole Story. 29 Mar. 2008. Education Week. 10 Sep. 2008.

 

Editorial. Focus on School Reform. 7 Jul. 2008. The Washington Post. 10 Sep. 2008.

 

Bill Status SB099. Illinois General Assembly.

 

 

 

Copyright

[theashtraysays]

Fifty pages in eight days. You people.

[kwall]

Obama is often quoted as saying that when it comes to sex education in public schools, “it’s the right thing to do ... to provide age-appropriate sex education, science-based sex education in schools,” placing an emphasis on the word "appropriate."

who gets to decide what is appropriate for a 5-year-old?

[Tweedling]

tab A

slot B

[sweetheart-mine]

who gets to decide what is appropriate for a 5-year-old?

 

the bill is dead, and so is this discussion.

[Wendy]

the bill is dead, and so is this discussion.

Yeah, this is a good place to stop ... another 50 pages, another slow Saturday!

 

Start another anybody.