Brand Spanking New Election Thread

[Analogman]

Exactly.

[EL the Famous]

i'm at the point today that whichever candidate can:

 

1. Get all the fucking water out of my damn garage,

2. Get the one son that is upstairs repeating ' to infinity and beyond' over and over to actually take his damn nap.

3. Make a beer run and get me another case of Honker's Ale (on him, of course).

4. Fix me a raost beef sandwich, as I haven't had time to eat today.

5. Provide me fully nude pictures of in-their-prime-but-not-too-young connie stevens and/or annette funicello.

 

...has my vote. policy be damned.

 

BONUS: i'll actually stump for whichever candidate has pics of nude pictures of in-their-prime-but-not-too-young connie stevens and/or annette funicello 'together'.

[jc4prez]

Bob Barr, Chuck Baldwin, Cynthia McKinney, Ralph Nader and Ron Paul should hold their own debate and talk amongst themselves. Really none of them have anything to bring to the table until after the election.

 

No one on the far right has any doubt now that they should vote McCain/Palin; it still just floors me that the left thinks that a non-player should get votes and deny the leftish candidate the office. Just amazing...

 

LouieB

 

 

I can't believe people act like they're at the horse track when they vote.

 

 

ETA: and joe biden....... not a chance.

[LouieB]

I can't believe people act like they're at the horse track when they vote.

Just exactly what do you think an election is??? Winner take all. Exactly the same as a horse race. You get nothing for coming in place or show.

 

Everyone one on the right knows that...only folks on the left think it is some sort of ideological struggle.

 

Why exactly did McCain pick Palin?? Because she ups his odds considerably. Isn't that obvious to you. If you vote Nader, Paul, et al, all you are doing is lowering the chances that someone in your basic ideological wheelhouse is going to reside in the White House. You can have all these carefully constructed intellectual discussions here about Obama not being far enough to the left,wocka wocka, but really do you want a Supreme Court controled by the right wing for nearly your entire adult life? Do you want more war, more tax breaks for the rich, more emphasis on oil, etc. etc. etc.

 

I am NOT saying voting for Obama is some sort of pancea, but after two close elections (one in which the Nader voters cost Gore the election in 2000 and a bunch of lying assholes cost Kerry the election in 2004) are you really interested in having President Palin commanding the troops and appointing Supreme Court Justices. All the rest of the arguments are frankly bullshit comrade. They were bullshit four years ago and eight years ago and they remain so today.

 

I know I can't really convince you to vote Obama because your concience just won't allow you to, but honestly don't bitch when shit goes awry again in a few months or years.

 

LouieB

[mountain bed]

And besides..isn't Barak Obama the choice of Wilco, greatest rock group in the world and don't we want to see Wilco play a presidential inaguration?? I don't think McCain Palin is going to invite Jeff and company...

 

LouieB

Hmm now...who would McCain invite to play? Toby Kieth? Kenny G? Michael Friggin Bolton?

[austrya]

I'm thinking more along the lines of Michael W Smith, Amy Grant, and Stephen Curtis Chapman...

[Analogman]

It seems to me that Sen. Obama is the real deal, just like President Clinton was the real deal. I have to say that I am disappointed that Sen. Clinton was not picked as VP, but that is the way it goes. I hope that he puts her to work in some capacity when he gets elected.

 

I respect some of the ideology of Bob Barr, Chuck Baldwin, Cynthia McKinney, Ralph Nader and Ron Paul, but, America is too MOR to ever allow these sort of folks to be in the driver's seat - maybe that will change some day, who knows.

[Wendy]

there's a lot of people out there having a hard time tonight

amongst the whispers of revolution and shouts of hang on tight

a lot of crippled hearts out there, some will never mend

losing our patience and losing too many good men

some say its the end times and some say its all just begun

some are hiding in the churches and some are hiding in the gun

some are thinking its extinction, some are swearing by salvation

nothing nostradamus or relating revelations

you come on down, you spiral down

come down well within this regency

you can put it down and even jot it down

reinvent some new form of decency

it sure is getting hotter and the water is on the rise

don't want to live forever but another generation would be nice

 

Spiral - Giant Sand (Howe Gelb)

[Analogman]

From: Larry Hoppen

Subject: Political use of Iconic songs

 

Bob, the recent unauthorized McCain Campaign use of Heart

[Good Old Neon]

there's a lot of people out there having a hard time tonight

amongst the whispers of revolution and shouts of hang on tight

a lot of crippled hearts out there, some will never mend

losing our patience and losing too many good men

some say its the end times and some say its all just begun

some are hiding in the churches and some are hiding in the gun

some are thinking its extinction, some are swearing by salvation

nothing nostradamus or relating revelations

you come on down, you spiral down

come down well within this regency

you can put it down and even jot it down

reinvent some new form of decency

it sure is getting hotter and the water is on the rise

don't want to live forever but another generation would be nice

 

Spiral - Giant Sand (Howe Gelb)

 

Cool - I

[jc4prez]

Just exactly what do you think an election is??? Winner take all. Exactly the same as a horse race. You get nothing for coming in place or show.

 

Everyone one on the right knows that...only folks on the left think it is some sort of ideological struggle.

 

Why exactly did McCain pick Palin?? Because she ups his odds considerably. Isn't that obvious to you. If you vote Nader, Paul, et al, all you are doing is lowering the chances that someone in your basic ideological wheelhouse is going to reside in the White House. You can have all these carefully constructed intellectual discussions here about Obama not being far enough to the left,wocka wocka, but really do you want a Supreme Court controled by the right wing for nearly your entire adult life? Do you want more war, more tax breaks for the rich, more emphasis on oil, etc. etc. etc.

 

I am NOT saying voting for Obama is some sort of pancea, but after two close elections (one in which the Nader voters cost Gore the election in 2000 and a bunch of lying assholes cost Kerry the election in 2004) are you really interested in having President Palin commanding the troops and appointing Supreme Court Justices. All the rest of the arguments are frankly bullshit comrade. They were bullshit four years ago and eight years ago and they remain so today.

 

I know I can't really convince you to vote Obama because your concience just won't allow you to, but honestly don't bitch when shit goes awry again in a few months or years.

 

LouieB

 

 

Nader didn't cost anyone any election.

 

The thing is obama isn't anywhere near what I believe. Obama is not much different then McCain, he has not said or done anything that could lead me to believe otherwise.

 

Nearly half of the population doesn't vote. In effect only some 15% of the country actually is voting this candidates in. Its not a better of jumping on board wtih the democrats but getting other people out there to vote.

 

Obama voted to reauthorize the patriot act and backed down on FISA. He also wants to increase the military budget, openly threatened Pakistan in that op-ed from the new york times, and wants to remove are troops to put them in another country. Doesn't want to raise corporate taxes. WHERE IS THE SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE!

 

Joe biden's history in the war on drugs in disgusting as is his foreign policy record. The bankruptcy bill of 2005.

 

Show me the change?

[bjorn_skurj]

Just exactly what do you think an election is??? Winner take all. Exactly the same as a horse race. You get nothing for coming in place or show.

 

Everyone one on the right knows that...only folks on the left think it is some sort of ideological struggle.

 

Why exactly did McCain pick Palin?? Because she ups his odds considerably. Isn't that obvious to you. If you vote Nader, Paul, et al, all you are doing is lowering the chances that someone in your basic ideological wheelhouse is going to reside in the White House. You can have all these carefully constructed intellectual discussions here about Obama not being far enough to the left,wocka wocka, but really do you want a Supreme Court controled by the right wing for nearly your entire adult life? Do you want more war, more tax breaks for the rich, more emphasis on oil, etc. etc. etc.

 

I am NOT saying voting for Obama is some sort of pancea, but after two close elections (one in which the Nader voters cost Gore the election in 2000 and a bunch of lying assholes cost Kerry the election in 2004) are you really interested in having President Palin commanding the troops and appointing Supreme Court Justices. All the rest of the arguments are frankly bullshit comrade. They were bullshit four years ago and eight years ago and they remain so today.

 

I know I can't really convince you to vote Obama because your concience just won't allow you to, but honestly don't bitch when shit goes awry again in a few months or years.

 

LouieB

QFT. Great post, Luis.

[bobbob1313]

voting for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil, then. If you don't vote with your conscience then you have no right to bitch.

[viatroy]

My conscience tells me to vote in the way most likely to prevent McCain/Palin from sitting in the White House. And that means Obama, who is both far from radical and far from evil.

[bjorn_skurj]

voting for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil, then. If you don't vote with your conscience then you have no right to bitch.

If you do not choose the lesser evil, do you not then get the greater?

[Lammycat]

Just exactly what do you think an election is??? Winner take all. Exactly the same as a horse race. You get nothing for coming in place or show.

 

Everyone one on the right knows that...only folks on the left think it is some sort of ideological struggle.

 

Why exactly did McCain pick Palin?? Because she ups his odds considerably. Isn't that obvious to you. If you vote Nader, Paul, et al, all you are doing is lowering the chances that someone in your basic ideological wheelhouse is going to reside in the White House. You can have all these carefully constructed intellectual discussions here about Obama not being far enough to the left,wocka wocka, but really do you want a Supreme Court controled by the right wing for nearly your entire adult life? Do you want more war, more tax breaks for the rich, more emphasis on oil, etc. etc. etc.

 

I am NOT saying voting for Obama is some sort of pancea, but after two close elections (one in which the Nader voters cost Gore the election in 2000 and a bunch of lying assholes cost Kerry the election in 2004) are you really interested in having President Palin commanding the troops and appointing Supreme Court Justices. All the rest of the arguments are frankly bullshit comrade. They were bullshit four years ago and eight years ago and they remain so today.

 

I know I can't really convince you to vote Obama because your concience just won't allow you to, but honestly don't bitch when shit goes awry again in a few months or years.

 

LouieB

Louie, I agree with you to a great extent. However, my conscience does come in to play in these things. It's not as cut and dry for me as "do I want more of the Bush regime" shoved up my ass for the next four years. I'll more than likely end up voting for Obama (unless the polling lines are too long) but there's a part of me that doesn't want to, as well. He may be the better choice, in my eyes, but as long as I've been a voter I've yet to see any real changes made that I can sit back and say "excellent. I'm glad I voted for him!" Maybe I'm just near-sighted, I don't know. I'm chagrined over big politics, in general, and believe McCain and Obama are cut from the same cloth. To get this far, you have to be. It's a dirty business and no one person offered as a viable candidate is going to change that.

 

And if I choose not to vote or to write-in Darth Vadar, I am still entitled to bitch about or praise whomever is in office, as they still represent me.

[bobbob1313]

If you do not choose the lesser evil, do you not then get the greater?

 

I'd rather not help perpetuate a system that promotes evil.

 

And I'd love it if someone could give me one good reason that the debates should be kept between the two major parties. They don't represent every opinion in our country, and shutting out legitimate voices from the public is nothing more than a bullshit tactic to perpetuate the current system.

[Beltmann]

And I'd love it if someone could give me one good reason that the debates should be kept between the two major parties. They don't represent every opinion in our country, and shutting out legitimate voices from the public is nothing more than a bullshit tactic to perpetuate the current system.

This is tough to argue against.

[jc4prez]

I'd rather not help perpetuate a system that promotes evil.

 

And I'd love it if someone could give me one good reason that the debates should be kept between the two major parties. They don't represent every opinion in our country, and shutting out legitimate voices from the public is nothing more than a bullshit tactic to perpetuate the current system.

 

 

This is what its all about opening the debates.

[bjorn_skurj]

I'd rather not help perpetuate a system that promotes evil.

You can have all these carefully constructed intellectual discussions here about Obama not being far enough to the left,wocka wocka, but really do you want a Supreme Court controled by the right wing for nearly your entire adult life? Do you want more war, more tax breaks for the rich, more emphasis on oil, etc. etc. etc.

[Analogman]

Political Parties

 

List of political parties in the United States

 

Which ones will be let in on the debates - and which ones will not?

[LouieB]

Nader didn't cost anyone any election.

 

Obama is not much different then McCain,

Actually he did, in FLA. If Obama is no different than McCain how come the Republicans are falling all over themselves trying NOT to elect Obama. In your mind they are no different, but in reality they are quite different.

 

QFT.

QFT??

 

 

If you do not choose the lesser evil, do you not then get the greater?

Well yea, but Obama is not evil in any event is he?? I am trying to figure out what is evil about him?

Louie, I agree with you to a great extent.

Think about who gets to appoint Supreme Court members and then tell me there isn't a radical difference between a President Obama and a President Palin, who could step into that position at any moment during a McCain presidency (or even if she doesn't who is McCain going to appoint??)

 

 

I'd rather not help perpetuate a system that promotes evil.

Blah Blah blah....we all perpetuate evil systems every hour of every day of the week.

 

I certainly understand the youngbloods here like bobbob and jc4pres (what would Neil Young do??) getting all self righteous about the world being black and white and therefore not not supporting the evils of Obama as President, but frankly I don't understand someone like Lammycat who is slightly more seasoned not understanding that with two choices in a real world, Darth Vader is not a candidate that will make any impact on a system that sucks. I have said this many times, I have no reason to believe that Obama is going to change things to the extent many of us would like to see them changed, but can you imagine for even one minute that Al Gore would have lead us into an endless war in Iraq?? Isn't THAT a significant difference between Al and George right there in hindsight? With all we do know about the Bush administration why on earth would anyone have voted Nader over Gore?? That's just plain goofy. I know that even Obama is now stuck with a war in Iraq that won't go away the day he is inagurated, but at least maybe maybe Barak won't follow the Bush doctrine (even though Sarah Palin doens't seem to know what it is...) and get us into another war that has nothing to do with US self preservation.

 

As for inviting all candidates to a debate. I have no problem with that, except none of those candidates is even on the radar at the moment (unlike Ross Perot and John Anderson before him) so until a third party candidate has a fighting chance of making a real impact, they should stay home.

 

Actually I suppose in some perverse way, a McCain Palin presidency will give Hillary Clinton a new lease on her political life. And maybe, just maybe youngbloods like jc and bob will look back with a bit more maturity at the end of another 4 or 8 years of this and think...what the fuck was I thinking?? Apparently 8 years of Bush Cheney simply wasn't enough for them.

 

LouieB

[bobbob1313]

So because there are two many other parties, we should just keep it the way it is? That's stupid.

 

Do it by past success, or ballot access, or registration. There's no excuse besides just the two parties being afraid of losing their grip on power.

 

 

And Bjorn, the implication there is that I inherently disagree with all of those things. I'm not far left. There is actually a lot of doubt in my mind about most issues, because every issue is not always black and white, which is how a two party system has to represent it.

 

Hey Louie, being condescending isn't a good way to get your point across when talking to "youngbloods".

 

Obama isn't evil, I already said I like Obama the person. But Obama the person and Obama the democratic nominee for the office of President of the United States aren't even remotely related. One of them represents one half a flawed system that doesn't represent me anyways.

 

It's not like I'm lockstep in upport of the democratic party's ideals anyways. I support some of their policies and some of the republican party's (OH NO!!!!!) and I also disagree with both on some issues.

 

In my opinion, voting straight down a party line shows as much apathy for the future as staying home. It's intellectual apathy.

[bjorn_skurj]

And Bjorn, the implication there is that I inherently disagree with all of those things. I'm not far left. There is actually a lot of doubt in my mind about most issues, because every issue is not always black and white, which is how a two party system has to represent it.

No matter what your reasons, if you don't vote for something you agree with, that something gets one less vote. It usually doesn't, but it might make a difference. I am not unsympathetic to third parties and agree with them on many things. I just don't think they'll ever reach critical mass to make any sort of positive difference, so supporting them is supporting a spoiler.

[Edie]

Great post Louie --

 

I do think that there would have been major differences between a president Al and the current president George -- and their names are Alito and Roberts.

 

Lammy, if you like a balanced Supreme Court (which to be honest, I do), then you really need to vote for Obama, as at least two supremes will retire in the next 4 years. Your vote in CO matters way more than JC4Pres here in IL. bobbob, same for you.