quarter23cd Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Sometimes I forget that Pat Buchanan is a real dude and not some imaginary bogeyman I dreamed up to personify the antithesis of my actual political beliefs. Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 A real Socialist from when such people actually ran real third party campaigns. (Way way way before my time incidently...) I just love this picture...in those days people really knew how to speak...!! LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
NightOfJoy Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 You mean the dude following orders and doing his job. A case could be made that bombing civilians during wartime is a criminal act. Link to post Share on other sites
Moe_Syzlak Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 You know what is surprising to me? it's not fiscal conservatives bailing from the GOP. I consider myself one and think at best the GOP has abandoned its core values and at worst its ideas of fiscal conservatism (read: trickle down) no longer work. Frankly I think its both. No, what surprises me is how many social conservatives are voting Obama. Some of you may remember I used to work in Colorado Springs with some serious social conservatives. These are New Life Church and Focus on the Family members. I am shocked at how many tell me they are voting Obama. Link to post Share on other sites
NightOfJoy Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 A real Socialist from when such people actually ran real third party campaigns. (Way way way before my time incidently...) I just love this picture...in those days people really knew how to speak...!! LouieB Isnt there a city park named for Debs around Foster n Pulaski? Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Isnt there a city park named for Debs around Foster n Pulaski?Gompers Park..... Chicago is simply not far enough along to name a park after one of the leaders of the Pullman strke. LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
NightOfJoy Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Gompers Park..... Chicago is simply not far enough along to name a park after one of the leaders of the Pullman strke. LouieB Thats right, Gompers......thanks, that was gonna bug me all day... Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Thats right, Gompers......thanks, that was gonna bug me all day...Gompers was head of the American Federation of Labor, not nearly as radical as the IWW. LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
jc4prez Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 A real Socialist from when such people actually ran real third party campaigns. (Way way way before my time incidently...) I just love this picture...in those days people really knew how to speak...!! LouieB Eugene Debs was a great man. I don't understand how he was any more serious then Ralph Nader. What Do They Have To Do To Loose Your Vote By Matt Gonzalez This was just published, Matt is Nader's running mate. After reading that and this: The Obama Craze By Matt Gonzalez, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a reason Ralph Nader isn't a much a needed alternative. Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Eugene Debs was a great man. I don't understand how he was any more serious then Ralph Nader.He was WAY more serious than Ralph Nader.....read something about him...he ran under the banner of an actual third party five times (Ralph hasn't stuck with one through any of his three runs) and even ran when he was in prison. Debs was a significant labor leader and thinker. I am not arguing with you any more about this. Obama has Illinois wrapped up so go for it. Or Cynthia McKinney is in town today making the rounds. I am sure she needs an audience. LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
jc4prez Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 He was WAY more serious than Ralph Nader.....read something about him...he ran under the banner of an actual third party five times (Ralph hasn't stuck with one through any of his three runs) and even ran when he was in prison. Debs was a significant labor leader and thinker. I am not arguing with you any more about this. Obama has Illinois wrapped up so go for it. Or Cynthia McKinney is in town today making the rounds. I am sure she needs an audience. LouieB Debs is an American legend for sure, but Nader too has quite a legacy. I'm not trying to argue by the way, just have a discussion. And that information was for anyone to comment on. I guess I just find it hard to believe that most Americans actually support Obama's platform or are aware of his history as a senator. Link to post Share on other sites
Spawn's dad Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I just can't follow anymore. In one post it's over by a landslide yet in another it seems every vote counts and anyone who isn'tcock sure about voting for Obama is responsible for the inevitable destruction of the country and needs to go listen to radiohead. If it's over by a landslide what's the difference? Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 "That's why he's spending these last few days calling me every name in the book. I'm sorry to see my opponent sink so low. Lately' date=' he's called me a socialist for wanting to roll back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans so we can finally give tax relief to the middle class. [i']By the end of the week, he'll be accusing me of being a secret communist because I shared my toys in Kindergarten."[/i] Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 NICE! Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 You mean the dude following orders and doing his job.Calling it your job doesn't make it right. Link to post Share on other sites
gogo Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 This was just published, Matt is Nader's running mate. After reading that and this: The Obama Craze By Matt Gonzalez, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a reason Ralph Nader isn't a much a needed alternative.While I respect Matt Gonzalez oh, just slightly more than I respect Sarah Palin, Nader's choice of Gonzalez as a running mate doesn't say much to me about Nader's decision-making (Matt Gonzalez was the representative to the SF Board of Supervisors from my district, the first Green supervisor, I believe; and yes, I voted for him). I respect what Nader has accomplished, but I don't think his runs for president are adding much luster to his legacy. It's been said here before, but where are the Naders and Gonzalezes of this world in the local elections? I really like the current supervisor in our district, Ross Mirkarimi, also a Green. Even he is supporting Obama. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Calling it your job doesn't make it right. It also doesn't mean he's a war criminal. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 It also doesn't mean he's a war criminal. Actually, it means he can be prosecuted as one. Seems like pretty good motivation to obey any order you're given, right? Nope. These articles require the obedience of LAWFUL orders. An order which is unlawful not only does not need to be obeyed, but obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution of the one who obeys it. Link to post Share on other sites
quarter23cd Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 This was just published, Matt is Nader's running mate. After reading that and this: The Obama Craze By Matt Gonzalez, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a reason Ralph Nader isn't a much a needed alternative.Wait--did you just point to something published by Nader's running mate as a convincing argument that Nader is a much-needed alternative? I mean, I guess its more than McCain can say that his running mate has done for him, but still... I like Nader. Voted for him in 2000. Admittedly, I haven't remotely considered voting for him this time. You could call it settling for the lesser of two evils if you really want to, but I actually do have a decent amount of faith in Obama. Whether I will come be disappointed in time remains to be seen, but for now I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Link to post Share on other sites
Doug C Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 It also doesn't mean he's a war criminal.With all due respect, you should contact the boys at Guinness (not the brewery). You are hands down the youngest curmudgeon in all of curmudgeondom. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 With all due respect, you should contact the boys at Guinness (not the brewery). You are hands down the youngest curmudgeon in all of curmudgeondom. I just think with all of the things to hate on McCain for, that seems like an awfully dumb one. A soldier following unlawful orders can be prosecuted as a war criminal (Learn something new every day), but McCain wasn't, and he won't be, and the fact of the matter is he was probably one of dozens or hundreds of pilots who did so. Just seems like an awfully McCainian tactic. Link to post Share on other sites
ih8music Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I respect what Nader has accomplished, but I don't think his runs for president are adding much luster to his legacy. It's been said here before, but where are the Naders and Gonzalezes of this world in the local elections?I've often said that if Nader was serious about changing the way Washington works, he'd run for an office he could actually win - like a congressional representative or even US senator. These presidential runs are just for publicity, IMO. They're certainly not doing anything to advance the cause, especially this year. Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Being so brainwashed at such an early age (dad & gramps were Admirals) I'm sure he didn't think it was wrong. But it was, sorry. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Just seems like an awfully McCainian tactic.Bobbob, I believe the saying is, "those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." McCain pounds and pounds this tenuous connection with Ayers, who was part of an organization that committed terrorist acts in protest of the Vietnam war, while he himself knowingly bombed civilian targets during that conflict. Both matters are probably equally irrelevant. Link to post Share on other sites
Doug C Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 bob, Louie and I are old. We have be cantankerous, curmudgeonly cudgels. It's all that we have left. You are a young man. Enjoy life. Be happy. It's all in front of you. Link to post Share on other sites
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