Atticus Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 so if a song is catchy or has any redeemable qualities that makes it a pop song? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 it's a vague word that has been used to characterize different things over the past 80 years. There's really no point to continuing this "debate". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 No, not necessarily, but all of Wilco's songs subscribe to basic songwriting "rules" and patterns (in regards to chord progressions, choruses, bridges, etc.). What doesn't make them pop songs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 it's a vague word that has been used to characterize different things over the past 80 years. There's really no point to continuing this "debate". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 "Okay." Then don't? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 "Okay." Then don't? Why is your avatar zoomed and blurry now? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost of Electricity Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 "Misunderstod" shares a chord progression with Velvet Underground's "Heroin." It also shares other elements, such as the building of intesity and then backing off, then building it again. And noise. In fact, neither song has much more than that in terms of structure. This is not a pop structure with verse/chorus/verse/chorus/verse/chorus and maybe a middle 8 thrown in somewhere for good measure. "Heroin" is, if anything, an anti-pop song, which is how i'd classify "Misunderstood" as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Why is your avatar zoomed and blurry now? Ellen Feiss has not aged well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost of Electricity Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Ellen Feiss has not aged well.and it sure is a shame. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest McGuffin Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I've been a fan since 1998. As with SBS, this album has been extremely difficult to get into. It took me over a year to really get into SBS more and appreciate it, although it's far from their best work. I still cannot get into WTA at this point but am trying. It clearly will never be at the heights that Foxtrot sits at, but anyway... Wilco (the song). Wow, I hated this on the first handful of listens. After letting it sit, I now appreciate it a bit more and actually like it. (3/5) Deeper Down. This one could be one of those tunes that eventually grows on me, but right now I'm not feeling it. (2/5) One Wing. Clearly one of the better tracks on this one, and one of the few immediate grabbers on the album. (5/5) Bull Black Nova. The meatiest tune on the album by a wide margin. (5/5) You and I. Why, oh why? The first real indication on the album of trouble ahead. (0/5) You Never Know. Poppiest tune on the album. Love the Harrison homage. One of the top three tunes on this album. 4/5) Country Disappeared. No. Just no. (1/5) Solitaire. This one could grow on me with more time. (2/5) I'll Fight. Twee. About as twee as Walken. (1/5) Sonny Feeling. See I'll Fight, but maybe not quite as bad. (1/5) Everlasting Everything. I like this one. (3/5) By and large, this album is front heavy with the winners, gets extremely weak in the middle and towards the end, You Never Know notwithstanding, and then cleans up nicely with Everlasting Everything, which really comes too late after the four drab tracks preceding it. So, as of right now, we're looking at half a good album and half throwaways. Maybe that will change with time, as SBS did for me. But that's how I feel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Smokestack Joe Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 i liked the album of course but waited for give it a full review after seeing/hearing songs live. After taking in songs in concert, it gives it a new feeling. for example, i played You Never Know on my guitar, and eventhough my singing and struming don't give the song poetic justice, it was fun so i began to appreciate it more. I didnt get into Deeper Down live. maybe it was the arena atmosphere of UIC Pavillion. it would probably be cool at a solo Tweedy show. Sonny Feeling has not grown on me, i like the guitar riff but the lyrics dont do much for me. The live performance adds a little to my enjoyment of the song. One Wing was great on first listen and is fantastic in show, a winner on all accounts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Was Everlasting Everything written the same day as I Thought I Held You? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
choo-choo-charlie Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Was Everlasting Everything written the same day as I Thought I Held You? LOL. Sweet avatar by the way...I've been on a strong Beatles for Sale kick for several weeks now. Highly underrated. But back to Wilco. I decided to pop in W(TA) yesterday after not having listened to it for a few months, and didn't make it past "You Never Know." Now - I really enjoyed the album when it first came out, sided with the SBS fans in the SBS vs. W(TA) debate w/o totally hating on W(TA), and didn't necessarily find W(TA) to be a huge disappointment. I agreed with many of the folks here with the idea that it's certainly not Wilco's strongest album, but it's solid, and it's the album that the band wanted to put out...which is exactly what they should do. But yesterday, maybe it's just because of the mood I was in, I couldn't get into it. I'll bet in a few months I'll put it on again and really enjoy it. But that's how many of us Wilco fans are...fickle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rwilson580 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 LOL. Sweet avatar by the way...I've been on a strong Beatles for Sale kick for several weeks now. Highly underrated. But back to Wilco. I decided to pop in W(TA) yesterday after not having listened to it for a few months, and didn't make it past "You Never Know." Now - I really enjoyed the album when it first came out, sided with the SBS fans in the SBS vs. W(TA) debate w/o totally hating on W(TA), and didn't necessarily find W(TA) to be a huge disappointment. I agreed with many of the folks here with the idea that it's certainly not Wilco's strongest album, but it's solid, and it's the album that the band wanted to put out...which is exactly what they should do. But yesterday, maybe it's just because of the mood I was in, I couldn't get into it. I'll bet in a few months I'll put it on again and really enjoy it. But that's how many of us Wilco fans are...fickle. It's just odd to put on a Wilco album, any Wilco album, and be kind of "meh" about it, right? I like every song on it, really like about five of them -- but as a whole, the album doesn't take me to another place. I'm not sure why. I'm pretty sure part of it has nothing to do with the quality of the individual songs, though. It's that the collection of songs don't belong together, don't create a strong vibe, statement of any kind. The total is less than the sum of its parts. Maybe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest McGuffin Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Is there going to be a follow-up EP, as we have had in the past, with the tunes that were not released on the proper album? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pmancini100 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 i had a great listen to (the album) today. i put it aside for a while, but now its back strong. i thought of three things while listening to it. not comparing technical skill/style or anything, i feel jay bennett is to nels cline as bob stinson is to slim dunlap. if you think about it, its almost scary. the drumming on the second verse of 'everlasting everything' proves glenn kotche is a genius. and most of nels' solos begin with those quick hammer ons like at the beginning of 'impossible germany.' Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jakobnicholas Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I, too, listened to W(TA) the past few days...after not listening to it for a few weeks. After my first listen, I thought "y'know...maybe this record isn't as mediocre as I originally thought". But then listening to it a 2nd and 3rd time confirmed my original belief. Overall, it's bland. In my opinion, Bull Black Nova and Solitaire are AMAZING. I'd rank those 2 songs with many of the Wilco greats. One Wing is nearly to that level. You and I, though kinda cheesy, IS a very beautiful and worthy song and has grown on me a LOT. My Country Disappeared is close to being great.....not sure why it doesn't feel great to me....I preferred the early live versions of it. The rest leaves me flat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jesusetc84 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 After a period of absolute bliss with the record, followed by a period of disillusionment, I'm back to loving the album. Is it Yankee Hotel Foxtrot or Summerteeth? No. But it's still a lot better than SBS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jakobnicholas Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 After a period of absolute bliss with the record, followed by a period of disillusionment, I'm back to loving the album. Is it Yankee Hotel Foxtrot or Summerteeth? No. But it's still a lot better than SBS. My take: After a period of pleasantness with the record, followed by a period of disillusionment, I've settled into just kinda liking the album. Is it Yankee Hotel Foxtrot or Summerteeth? No. And it's not better than SBS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jesusetc84 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 My take: After a period of pleasantness with the record, followed by a period of disillusionment, I've settled into just kinda liking the album. Is it Yankee Hotel Foxtrot or Summerteeth? No. And it's not better than SBS. I can actually stand every song on W(TA). I can't stand about 50% of SBS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnO Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I really don't understand the context that the term "pop" is being used in this thread. If we're talking about 2009 then there's no way W(TA) can be placed in the same category as the material that is being produced by today's "Pop" artists like Britney Spears, Owl City, Fireflies, Iyaz, Kelly Clarkson, Lady Gaga, Jay Sean, Lil Wayne, Ke$ha, Beyonce... The band certainly writes tight, structured and thoughtful songs which they have done consistently through out the years. Summerteeth reminds me so much of the "Pop" of my youth which were the Beachboys, Beatles and CCR. W(TA) is consistent but at the same time different which is the genius that is Wilco. imho Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 the "Pop" of my youth How old are you? I always wonder when people talk about the Beach Boys and Beatles being part of one's youth. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jesusetc84 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I really don't understand the context that the term "pop" is being used in this thread. If we're talking about 2009 then there's no way W(TA) can be placed in the same category as the material that is being produced by today's "Pop" artists like Britney Spears, Owl City, Fireflies, Iyaz, Kelly Clarkson, Lady Gaga, Jay Sean, Lil Wayne, Ke$ha, Beyonce... The band certainly writes tight, structured and thoughtful songs which they have done consistently through out the years. Summerteeth reminds me so much of the "Pop" of my youth which were the Beachboys, Beatles and CCR. W(TA) is consistent but at the same time different which is the genius that is Wilco. imho When I hear "pop" in the context of a band like Wilco, I think Beatles, Beach Boys, The Zombies, Big Star, Simon & Garfunkel, The Kinks, Yule-era VU, Elvis Costello. I think that's an accurate assessment of Summerteeth and W(TA). Summerteeth is a masterpiece in that style, while W(TA) is just a good album. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest McGuffin Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I'm still rating SBS higher than WTA at this point. The second half just drags too much until you get to Everlasting Everything. Still hoping to like it more at some point, but it's been real hard to digest this one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost of Electricity Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 oh, jeez, would they just please release another record so we can put this one into perspective? please? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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