What's the consensus on Wilco (The Album)?

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Not true at all - you genuinely confound me time and again. And be fair - you edited and elaborated upon your post after I asked my questions. I actually agree a lot with what you said. AGIB was definitely raked over the coals here when it was first available.

 

 

No...no editing for content. I sometimes edit for spelling and grammar.

[Sir Stewart]

No...no editing for content. I sometimes edit for spelling and grammar.

 

Then pardon me please. Rough weekend.

[euthe]

I don't put much stock into what the 'intelligentsia' thinks about records until at least three years after the release.

 

I decided remember some self proclaimed super fans complaining that Yankee Hotel Foxtrot was 'more of Jeff Tweedy's stupid noise experiments'. (not here of course. This place was not around.) I also seem to remember A Ghost is Born being greeted by some here with decided indifference if not outright hostility. We don't have to go very far on this very page to find the negative vibes about Sky Blue Sky. We all love the band we THINK and HOPE Wilco is.

 

I'm just along for the journey that this band is taking. We have to come to grips with several things. Even before he tragically passed, Jay Bennett was never going to be asked to come back. Wilco is Jeff's band...his vision, his songs. In firmly acknowledged hindsight, I think that the noise tht covered up the songs in YHF (that Jim O'Rourke significantly lessened) might have been some of the bone of contention between the two. Jeff has moved away from the deconstructed songs in a decided manner over the last three records with one NOTABLE exception (the drone man...the drone).

 

I still bristle at the poster who, in a thread rightly forgotten (see...editing spelling), jokingly (I HOPE) wished Jeff would start getting high again so he would write more 'interesting' music. That poster is/was an ass with internet cojones. Now, I don't presume to suppose that this disgusting opinion is widely shared here, but the sense that some want something much different from the band has been stated firmly in this thread. I'm not a fanboy by any stretch of the imagination. I approach the music in the following fashion: I like the musical journey that this band has taken. I like and enjoy the music that is being presented. The day I don't like the music, I won't come on here and piss and moan about the good old days of Being There, Summerteeth etc.; I will simply no longer follow the band. I am almost there with some of the bands I follow (I won't get into discussions about the missteps that Springsteen has taken lately), but I still enjoy what Wilco is producing.

 

Let's have a little perspective here.

 

 

With each Wilco album produced post Jay I have to disagree with everyone who says Tweedy provided the great ironic and quirky lyrics "she's a jar" "ashtray says she was up all night" etc etc from the older Wilco albums. Having reviewed some albums Jay helped produce, John Ralston's Sorry Vampire, I hear the amazing arrangements and weirdo lyrics from Wilco albums past.

 

Jeff is talented, but without Jay bouncing ideas off of their music has suffered greatly and when they've already released such great albums we're forced to compare.

 

If AGIB (jay had a part in composing those but not in recording) and SBS and WTA were their first records, I wouldn't be so critical and bemoaning.

 

Compare the jolly banker track to ANYTHING from the mermaid avenue sessions and you'll instantly notice a huge lack of orchestration.

 

Watch the movie I am trying to break your heart and you'll instantly hear the missing elements jay brought to the band. Like it or not, Jay WAS Jeff's right hand man and actually wrote some of the songs himself. I don't think Jeff got rid of him because he was taking over the band or anything like that that Jay mentions in the documentary I just think they were getting on each others nerves way too much. Shortly after AGIB Tweedy checked into rehab and we know what happened to Jay so let's not discount the possibility of some chemicals getting in the way.

 

That being said, Wilco is I believe a much better live band now because of the sheer badassness of their musicians. However, I don't believe Jay is replaceable and his ear for composition and songwriting is obviously missing on the new Wilco.

[ThisIsNowhere]

With each Wilco album produced post Jay I have to disagree with everyone who says Tweedy provided the great ironic and quirky lyrics "she's a jar" "ashtray says she was up all night" etc etc from the older Wilco albums. Having reviewed some albums Jay helped produce, John Ralston's Sorry Vampire, I hear the amazing arrangements and weirdo lyrics from Wilco albums past.

 

Jeff is talented, but without Jay bouncing ideas off of their music has suffered greatly and when they've already released such great albums we're forced to compare.

 

If AGIB (jay had a part in composing those but not in recording) and SBS and WTA were their first records, I wouldn't be so critical and bemoaning.

 

Compare the jolly banker track to ANYTHING from the mermaid avenue sessions and you'll instantly notice a huge lack of orchestration.

 

Watch the movie I am trying to break your heart and you'll instantly hear the missing elements jay brought to the band. Like it or not, Jay WAS Jeff's right hand man and actually wrote some of the songs himself. I don't think Jeff got rid of him because he was taking over the band or anything like that that Jay mentions in the documentary I just think they were getting on each others nerves way too much. Shortly after AGIB Tweedy checked into rehab and we know what happened to Jay so let's not discount the possibility of some chemicals getting in the way.

 

That being said, Wilco is I believe a much better live band now because of the sheer badassness of their musicians. However, I don't believe Jay is replaceable and his ear for composition and songwriting is obviously missing on the new Wilco.

AGIB is their best record though, so it's not just Jay that's missing.

[lost highway]

AGIB is their best record though, so it's not just Jay that's missing.

 

[augurus]

AGIB is their best record though, so it's not just Jay that's missing.

[Al.Ducts]

AGIB is their best record though, so it's not just Jay that's missing.

 

[Livin' in New Orleans]

I don't put much stock into what the 'intelligentsia' thinks about records until at least three years after the release.

 

I decided remember some self proclaimed super fans complaining that Yankee Hotel Foxtrot was 'more of Jeff Tweedy's stupid noise experiments'. (not here of course. This place was not around.) I also seem to remember A Ghost is Born being greeted by some here with decided indifference if not outright hostility. We don't have to go very far on this very page to find the negative vibes about Sky Blue Sky. We all love the band we THINK and HOPE Wilco is.

 

 

This is a very good point... I think people have certain expectations for what they imagine and want the band to be, and when the record doesn't match this, it is frustrating to them. The fact that AGIB and SBS were treated with hostility initially seems to bode well for this album in the future, because the songs here aren't bad by any means. I mean, you can't say that most of the songs here are bad songs.. the majority are highly enjoyable all the time to me, and those that aren't still have something for me.

 

That said, it is true that this album was not a step in a different direction in the sense that the others were. However, I feel that it is a "step" of its own in that it shows comfortability in creating music that dabbles in the various directions that the band has undertaken.... That is what I like about the statement of the album in my opinion: comfortability in not taking a step in a new direction. Rather, turning over a stone in the same place, so to speak. does this make sense?

[augurus]

This is a very good point... I think people have certain expectations for what they imagine and want the band to be, and when the record doesn't match this, it is frustrating to them. The fact that AGIB and SBS were treated with hostility initially seems to bode well for this album in the future, because the songs here aren't bad by any means. I mean, you can't say that most of the songs here are bad songs.. the majority are highly enjoyable all the time to me, and those that aren't still have something for me.

 

That said, it is true that this album was not a step in a different direction in the sense that the others were. However, I feel that it is a "step" of its own in that it shows comfortability in creating music that dabbles in the various directions that the band has undertaken.... That is what I like about the statement of the album in my opinion: comfortability in not taking a step in a new direction. Rather, turning over a stone in the same place, so to speak. does this make sense?

So this is what you just implied...

 

If AGIB/SBS does not sound like element A, people will not like AGIB/SBS.

AGIB/SBS sounds like element B.

---

Since AGIB/SBS sounds like element B, they do not like AGIB/SBS.

 

By the way, I can say a majority of the songs are bad, but I can't use any examples because you're being vague. And yes, lack of change following a consistent change in directions is considered change.

 

I definitely hear a change in the way the vocals are done on Wilco (The Album). There's a more confidant groove in the entire album. There's nothing wrong with mixing a bunch of elements to form a new element, and it works a lot of the times because nothing is entirely new.

[Livin' in New Orleans]

So this is what you just implied...

 

If AGIB/SBS does not sound like element A, people will not like AGIB/SBS.

AGIB/SBS sounds like element B.

---

Since AGIB/SBS sounds like element B, they do not like AGIB/SBS.

 

By the way, I can say a majority of the songs are bad, but I can't use any examples because you're being vague. And yes, lack of change following a consistent change in directions is considered change.

 

I definitely hear a change in the way the vocals are done on Wilco (The Album). There's a more confidant groove in the entire album. There's nothing wrong with mixing a bunch of elements to form a new element, and it works a lot of the times because nothing is entirely new.

No. Sheesh. I will use the same lettering system as your condescending post.

a. I was saying that the albums before were each different from the one before. SBS was very different from AGIB for example. As the poster that I responded to said, people want to "hear the Wilco they want it to be," and since those two albums were initially met with some hostility, as was this newest one, this seems to be the trend here.

 

b. I was then stating that both of these albums were treated with some initial hostility, and the fact that in MY OPINION and FOR ME, the majority of the songs are enjoyable. Therefore, I don't have to be specific, as I was not making a statement about others.

 

c. Yes, you can say the songs are bad because that is your opinion. I should have said "I" instead of "you." I know you can say the songs are bad, but we are Wilco fans here, and I think the general opinion is that with each album, Jeff Tweedy can create songs that we enjoy even just a little bit. Sorry for being vague... I hope that my foolish, silly, incapable of sharing his personal beliefs-self can better follow your guidelines for intelligent posting next time.

 

d. Piss Off.

[Guest Runaway Jim]

I haven't listened to WTA since the week it came out and I'm in no rush to do so. Their worst effort in my book.

 

One Wing is sweet though.

[bleedorange]

Even after a couple of months, I think it's too early to come to any kind of meaningful opinion on W(TA). It's still in the early impressions stage. I was ready to anoint SBS as their second best after a few weeks, now it's my least favorite Wilco album.

 

I haven't listened to W(TA) in a while, but I've fully digested it and wore it out after it leaked and after it was released. It's a very good album and I think "Deeper Down" ranks right up there with a lot of great Wilco songs. I'll echo the sentiment from some that there isn't a bad song on there.

 

It's a worthy album from a band that has produced two masterpieces (YHF & AGIB). I couldn't ask much more than that.

 

It does surprise me that some people have said the lyrics on W(TA) are awful. The lyrics are some of my favorite things about this album and range from serious and meaningful to playful and fun.

[jakobnicholas]

For me, W(TA) has some great Wilco songs...Wilco (The Song), One Wing, Bull Black Nova and Solitaire. But much of the rest is just so-so.

 

SBS was fairly similar...I'd put its best songs with some of Wilco's best (Either Way, Impossible Germany, Sky Blue Sky, On and On and On). But as a whole, it leaves me kinda flat.

[GLHawk]

I'm much more enthused about W(TA) than most, apparently. It can't match up to the Being There/YHF/AGIB trio in my mind, but I rank it just below those, and above A.M., Summerteeth, and SBS. This is actually their only one besides YHF with no songs that I dislike.

 

It's interesting that some here are dismissing it as a "good" album with nice songs. We in the Wilco fan community are spoiled rotten.

 

I like the fact that they pursued the pop angle this time; "You and I" gets no love whatsoever here, but I think it may someday be regarded as a classic. It's not easy to write a good love song.

 

And those who deride the lyrics on this album are just, uh, *wrong*:

 

"By the end of the bout, he was knocked out -- fists capsized, muscles shouting."

"I'm sorry as a setting sun."

"However close we get sometimes -- it's like we never met."

"Every generation thinks it's the end of the world."

"It never seemed like the wrong time or place, till they cut off her clothes."

Plus, "suburban gangster flow" and "the stare of your stereo" and "a sonic shoulder for you to cry-y-y-y-y on."

[jakobnicholas]

I'm much more enthused about W(TA) than most, apparently. It can't match up to the Being There/YHF/AGIB trio in my mind, but I rank it just below those, and above A.M., Summerteeth, and SBS. This is actually their only one besides YHF with no songs that I dislike.

 

 

 

Jay Bennett just rolled over.

[Guest Runaway Jim]

"You and I" gets no love whatsoever here, but I think it may someday be regarded as a classic.

 

Probably safer to say it's a piece of garbage (because it is) than to say it'll one day be a classic (because it won't).

 

That's one of only a couple Wilco songs I hate. The other is What Light.

[learnhowtosteer]

The problem with W(TA) is not with the lyrics. It's with the melodies--or, more properly put, the lack of melody. Besides all of Jay Bennett's sonic trickery, I think Bennett more importantly gave Tweedy's melodies some shape. Without a strong songwriting collaborator, Jeff's melodies are lazy and formless. That, I think, is the problem with "Country Disappeared." It has no real melody. He's just kind of whispering.

 

And the thing is, melody is part of what made early Wilco so awesome--think "Reservations," "Candyfloss," "I'm Always in Love," "Shot in the Arm," "Outta Mind (Outta Site)," "Misunderstood." All those songs have linear, beautiful melodies that really bring out Jeff's lyrics.

 

On AGIB and SBS, there is a whole lot less melody to Tweedy's songwriting, but some of that is made up for by the inventiveness of Jim O'Rourke's production (on AGIB) and Nels beautiful guitar playing (on SBS). On W(TA), the arrangements aren't nearly as nuanced as the previous two records. Nels wasn't even around when they did the basic tracks in New Zealand, and you can tell when you listen to the album that he just sort of came in at the end as an afterthought to add some lead lines here and there.

 

The album feels / sounds like it was assembled piecemeal, and the result is that it doesn't gel in a funky, organic way, as "Sky Blue Sky" did--and on top of that, there aren't any memorable melodies that stick with you either. That, I think, is why so many people are commenting that they haven't been able to listen to the record multiple times--because there is nothing that absorbs the listener, so why would you want to listen to it again?

[GLHawk]

Probably safer to say it's a piece of garbage (because it is) than to say it'll one day be a classic (because it won't).

 

That's one of only a couple Wilco songs I hate. The other is What Light.

 

Wilco don't make no junk.

 

Is there really no one else who likes "You And I"? I am truly baffled by this.

[Guest Runaway Jim]

Wilco don't make no junk.

 

Is there really no one else who likes "You And I"? I am truly baffled by this.

 

it's just so cheesy. the lyrics. the duet. just makes me want to puke.

 

it's like jerry and that chick being all "shmoopie-shmoopie" in that one episode of seinfeld.

[Atticus]

I can take "you and I" much more than "you never know." I've decided that it would be douchey of me to get on a wilco board and trash one of their tunes, so I won't talk about how much I can't believe that they actually created and released "you never know." because that would be douchey.

[learnhowtosteer]

I can take "you and I" much more than "you never know." I've decided that it would be douchey of me to get on a wilco board and trash one of their tunes, so I won't talk about how much I can't believe that they actually created and released "you never know." because that would be douchey.

 

Agreed. "You Never Know" sounds like ELO without the magnetism and charisma of Jeff Lynne.

[i'm only sleeping]

Wilco don't make no junk.

 

Is there really no one else who likes "You And I"? I am truly baffled by this.

 

I do like "You and I"!. I became accostumed to the fact that you always will find people that considers garbage what you think of as a masterpiece (as we say in spanish, "hay gente para todo"). Of course the thing always functions viceversa. As an example, 'Yesterday' from McCartney, one of the worst songs ever written among those highly regarded I can recall now, imo, but...

However, I cannot stand "You never know" or "Sonny feeling". Toooooo much deja vu in their melodies and not a single moment of remarkable instrumental nuance to remember...by now.

[GLHawk]

it's just so cheesy. the lyrics. the duet. just makes me want to puke.

 

it's like jerry and that chick being all "shmoopie-shmoopie" in that one episode of seinfeld.

 

OK, let's do a side-by-side comparison:

 

Wilco:

 

"You and I, we might be strangers

However close we get sometimes, it's like we never met."

 

Seinfeld:

 

"Oh, shmoopie, schmoopie, schmoopie."

 

Yeah, man, I can totally see that.

 

Seriously, if this song is "cheesy," then so is half the Beatles songbook.

[learnhowtosteer]

"I'll Fight" is another tune that suffers from lack of melody. Just a one-note sledgehammer. Pretty painful. And this from the group that did "How to Fight Loneliness," which is in the same key and has a lot of musical similarity. Except "How to Fight Loneliness" has a much more discernible melody and the song actually takes you somewhere, instead of singing "I'll fight, I'll fight, I'll fight" over and over again.

[Guest Runaway Jim]

"You and I, we might be strangers

However close we get sometimes, it's like we never met."

 

What's poetic about that line? I think the whole "we're close yet so far away" thing is overplayed and cheesy. I think the whole song is cheesy.

 

May as well be called Shmoopy-Shmoopy in my book.