bjorn_skurj Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Actually, no wait - he is the Emporer Palpatine! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 At least you've still got the Mets! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 And the Rangers too! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Well now I just feel bad. (Note: Yes I do realize my MLB team is basically a joke, my NFL team hasn't been to a Super Bowl since 4 years before I was born, and my NHL team might just be the worst franchise in professional sports.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Where is the idea that Jordan, Bird, & Magic "did it on their own" coming from? Each had teammates that were named to the NBA 50th Anniversary All-Time team (besides being hall-of famers - this list is like a hall-of-fame for hall-of famers): Jordan had PippenBird had McHale and Robert ParishMagic had Abdul-Jabbar and James Worthy Isiah had... Bill Laimbeer? Is "did it on their own" code for "Had a GM that was capable of putting a decent roster together"? If Lebron had won a championship in Cleveland, he truly would have "done it on his own" because the rest of his former team sucks. I think it's just a matter of being more precise about what I meant about doing it on their own. I never meant to suggest that Magic didn't have Kareem, Jordan didnt have Pippen (and Rodman), etc. It's not revisionist, though. I think the argument is that Jordan and the Bulls didn't win a title until 1990. His first year in the league was 1984. Jordan didn't jump ship to join forces with Magic and the Lakers because he wanted to win so badly. It wasn't just about rings to Jordan. He had to be the main alpha dog on his team. He had to be the best. Yes, his GM got him Pippen, Rodman, etc. But this was Jordan's team. The Heat are Wade's team. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Well now I just feel bad. (Note: Yes I do realize my MLB team is basically a joke, my NFL team hasn't been to a Super Bowl since 4 years before I was born, and my NHL team might just be the worst franchise in professional sports.)Being a sports fan is absurd on many, even most, levels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
u2roolz Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I am going to say something that hasn't been said on here, but has been kind of implied. "The Man" fans are more concerned with the individual's legacy instead of the team's legacy which in my book is a huge mistake. It's as if they view the team as a rental and not the player. Obviously by doing this they completely empower the individual that usually brings teams to their knees during negotiation processes like we just saw. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I think it's just a matter of being more precise about what I meant about doing it on their own. I never meant to suggest that Magic didn't have Kareem, Jordan didnt have Pippen (and Rodman), etc. It's not revisionist, though. I think the argument is that Jordan and the Bulls didn't win a title until 1990. His first year in the league was 1984. Jordan didn't jump ship to join forces with Magic and the Lakers because he wanted to win so badly. It wasn't just about rings to Jordan. He had to be the main alpha dog on his team. He had to be the best. Yes, his GM got him Pippen, Rodman, etc. But this was Jordan's team. The Heat are Wade's team. Does this, in your mind, tarnish Wade's legacy as a "The Man"? He actively recruited both Bosh and LeBron to join him, isn't that just as bad? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
u2roolz Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Oh, and another thing that had me laughing was when my best friend who subscribes to "The Man" philosophy and a whole host of others like him got pissed when Kobe won the MVP Award for the NBA Finals. A lot of people felt that Pau Gasol deserved it, but they said that they gave it to Kobe for being Kobe Bryant. Let me see if I get their philosophy. Ok. It's ok for an individual to be "The Man" and win an NBA Championship for the good of their own "Legacy", but when they get the (read: Individual) NBA FInals MVP Award then they throw a hissy fit. Allow me to rent a bus for the lot of you to drive to Solomon's Mental Institution. The last time I checked the NBA Finals Trophy is usually locked away somewhere in the arena of the winning team, not the winning player referred to as "The Man". They usually have their own NBA Finals Trophy on their mantle or as a paper weight for "the benjamins". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Well, going by the Kobe Scale of Achievement, if you are consistent 6 out of 24 times, that's an MVP caliber performance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Does this, in your mind, tarnish Wade's legacy as a "The Man"? He actively recruited both Bosh and LeBron to join him, isn't that just as bad? Nah, because prior to this, I don't think Wade was ever in the discussion with the greatest 5-6 players of all time. Lebron could have been, and now he probably won't be. Who knows? It's sports. Maybe they win 5 straight titles, and Lebron is vaulted into the discussion, and everyone says Wade is his Pippen so it's no different than Jordan. This is all hypothetical stupidity for fun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Isiah had... Bill Laimbeer?Try Joe Dumars, Bill Laimbeer, and a ridiculous cast of other characters, including Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguirre, Dennis Rodman, Rick Mahorn, John Salley, Vinnie Johnson, James Edwards ... not superstars, but those championship teams were deep. And mean. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 No, he is Satan! No...that would be Tom Hicks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Mario ChalmersWadeLeBronBoshJoel AnthonyMike MillerUdonis HaslemZydrunas IlgauskusJuwan Howard that's a start. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Isiah never played with a single player that was as good as Pippen, McHale, or the rest of them . . . While this is absolutely true, Joe Dumars is still incredibly underrated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 If both Wade and LeBron had gone to Chicago to play together, would they both be "chickenshits" or would it still just be LeBron? Is LeBron the only one who suffers historically from this whole episode? I mean, we're talking about two players who might go down as top 25 players EVER, will both be stained? I still can't believe so much of the LeBron backlash is focused on the decision itself. The spectacle was worthy of the highest level of scorn, but the move itself is remarkably defendable, and yet people are still angry about it. Basketball is the only major sport where guys are criticized for taking less money to play with better teammates. It's crazy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Try Joe Dumars, Bill Laimbeer, and a ridiculous cast of other characters, including Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguirre, Dennis Rodman, Rick Mahorn, John Salley, Vinnie Johnson, James Edwards ... not superstars, but those championship teams were deep. And mean.Yes, I know. I was a Bad Boys fan back in the day. I just added the Bill Laimbeer line to be funny, and to note that none of the other Pistons were included in the 50th Anniversary All-Time team, much less hall of famers. (Are they? I could be wrong. I'm assuming none of them are.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Dumars was just inducted a year or two back. That's it though. Personally I think Rodman should go in, but I don't think it will happen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Joe Dumars is in the Hall of Fame? For Basketball? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PigSooie Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Lorenzen Wright found dead. http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/news/local/story/Source-Lorenzen-Wright-Found-Dead-in-Southeast/2mTkdqqd7UOSIrzrER_jRQ.cspx Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Damn. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moss Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 One report says multiple gunshot wounds, the other says potential self inflicted gun shot wound. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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