Osama Bin Laden is dead

[uncool2pillow]

We have killed, we have built. We have killed for sound reasons (WWII) and crappy (Vietnam, Spanish-American, etc.), but we HAVE built up. bin Laden has not. Counting dead bodies is a pretty crappy and wholly incomplete way to evaluate the legacy of a 230+ old country vs. that of a 57 year old man.

[sonicshoulder]

We are, you know. You can dress it up however you want - of course he targeted Americans and all that jazz - but we still have a bigger body count than he.

How many would he have killed with resources equal to America.

[Scott Gyrrr]

What is the legal angle in situations like this? Are there historic precedents for going into a country to take someone out like this outside of war? Might be some U.N uh...whachamacallit against it. Also how many other terrorists could/ should be taken out this way? Just musing, it's an aspect I haven't heard people talk about.

[Vacant Horizon]

 

what privilege we have to roll our eyes at unnecessary killing of human beings.

 

We have killed, we have built. We have killed for sound reasons (WWII) and crappy (Vietnam, Spanish-American, etc.), but we HAVE built up. bin Laden has not. Counting dead bodies is a pretty crappy and wholly incomplete way to evaluate the legacy of a 230+ old country vs. that of a 57 year old man.

 

so if i help build a house in my neighborhood then i can kill off a few of the neighbors that bother me?

[PopTodd]

What is the legal angle in situations like this? Are there historic precedents for going into a country to take someone out like this outside of war?

I think that the U.S. considers itself at war. Even if it is against an organization (Al Quaeda) as opposed to a country. We were attacked by this organization, so we are "at war."

It's an odd situation, but I am pretty sure that we are well-covered by International Law.

 

That said, I am far from a Hawk and I have very mixed emotions on this one.

The part of me that is vengeful is very satisfied right now.

The part of me that is a Dove, is appalled.

But all parts of me are, nonetheless, happy to be rid of him.

[bleedorange]

what privilege we have to roll our eyes at unnecessary killing of human beings.

 

No. Just the implication that we are no better, or even worse, than bin Laden.

[marino13]

Let's say a U.S. based Christian terrorist group carries out an attack on another country. That country has intelligence that a cell of this group lives in your neighborhood. They send a missle into your neighborhood, killing the cell, but also taking out five houses full of innocent people surrounding the cell, including some of your family members. They got the evil ones, so it's okay that some of your family members died as well, right?

 

It amazes me how we can sometimes discount the loss of innocent life if it's not an American life. This is not pointed at anyone in particular, just food for thought.

[lamradio]

Also how many other terrorists could/ should be taken out this way?

 

All of them.. There's no other way to do it. We can't trust the countries where these guys usually hangout.. As soon as we start trying to unravel the red tape, they get tipped off and fall through the cracks again. This situation was handled perfectly and I commend President Obama and our military forces for it.

[bleedorange]

Let's say a U.S. based Christian terrorist group carries out an attack on another country. That country has intelligence that a cell of this group lives in your neighborhood. They send a missle into your neighborhood, killing the cell, but also taking out five houses full of innocent people surrounding the cell, including some of your family members. They got the evil ones, so it's okay that some of your family members died as well, right?

 

It amazes me how we can sometimes discount the loss of innocent life if it's not an American life. This is not pointed at anyone in particular, just food for thought.

 

I'm not discounting the loss of any innocent lives. The loss of any life is tragic. But I do find it ridiculous to compare the U.S. to bin Laden and then decide that the U.S. is worse.

[Good Old Neon]

I'm not discounting the loss of any innocent lives. The loss of any life is tragic. But I do find it ridiculous to compare the U.S. to bin Laden and then decide that the U.S. is worse.

 

One could argue that, given all the stated reasons for invading Iraq have proven to be false or outright lies, and that our initial incursion into the country was defined as “shock and awe” – which, to these ears, sounds a lot like, terrorize, and that the current civilian casualty rate, though debated, hovers between 100,000 to as many as 650,000 – well, one could argue that our little adventure in Iraq – which, at the end of the day, really has to do with oil and our continued access to it – i.e. our own selfish interests, perpetuating our own standard of living, which, in a way, is not all that unlike Osama wanting to spread and preserve his way of religious life, which, though the US claims to be a Christian nation, more or less worships oil and the comforts it affords, well, one could make the argument that we're really no better or worse – we just have much better PR.

 

Which also might help explain why the rest of the world holds a much different view of the US as we here in the US do.

[cryptique]

Just some stuff I read somewhere:

 

"Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live.'"

 

- Ezekiel 33:11

 

"Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when they stumble, do not let your heart rejoice, or the LORD will see and disapprove and turn his wrath away from them."

 

- Proverbs 24:17-18

 

 

So all of those who cheered and waved flags to celebrate bin Laden's death must not have been Christians, right?

[Artifice]

I am sure he is dead, fairly confident that we got a highly sanitized version of the events, grateful anyway, and also certain that 99.9% of the reason for the quick & quiet sea burial was to minimize his poential martyrdom.

 

I don't care. It's justice. Dirty, bloody, vindicative justice. And this time, that's just fine by me. I dont care if we ran out on Afghanistan, etc, it didn't and never will justify killing thousands of civilians in a terrorist attack. Never. Ever.

 

I also don't believe this ends our entanglements in the region, not by a long shot, though it may shift the theaters of focus (especially the impending, ievitable dustup over pakistan's complicency). And are we still equating our involvement in Iraq to OBL?

 

The only thing this killing signifies is that the wheel of justice is inevitible. And while slower than the govt preferred, nonetheless that was the message it wanted to send.

[lamradio]

It was great to finally see Americans celebrating together holding American flags and just being proud to be Americans for once.. Haven't seen that in a while..

[Artifice]

It was great to finally see Americans celebrating together holding American flags and just being proud to be Americans for once.. Haven't seen that in a while..

 

I'm enjoying the brief timeout on the hyper-partisanship.

 

Also, who knew OBL's death would be such great fodder for the late night crew? J-Stew was on fire last night.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Just the implication that we are no better, or even worse, than bin Laden.

 

So what makes us better, in your opinion?

 

It was great to finally see Americans celebrating together holding American flags and just being proud to be Americans for once.. Haven't seen that in a while..

 

Yeah, that someone's death is bringing out the patriot in everyone sure is reassuring.

[lamradio]

So what makes us better, in your opinion?

 

Who is us actually? I'm pretty sure I'm better than Bin Laden was...

[Artifice]

It is possible to reject some of the politics that got us to where OBL was an enemy, but still condemn him for a cowardly, despicable act.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Who is us actually?

 

Whoever bleedorange keeps referring to, I reckon.

 

I think the operation to kill bin Laden was pretty remarkable, sure, but on the whole I don't know that we can talk about how peaceful the U.S. is when we're fighting two wars that are going nowhere.

 

And if this continued suspicious with Pakistan results in us going apeshit on them too, I'm going to be pretty salty about that.

[Vacant Horizon]

No. Just the implication that we are no better, or even worse, than bin Laden.

 

i wasn't implying, i was saying outright that killing is killing no matter who's doing it and for what reason. it is wrong and there is no justification for it at all. you can roll your eyes, but it's not black and white here.

 

It is possible to reject some of the politics that got us to where OBL was an enemy, but still condemn him for a cowardly, despicable act.

 

right. and then put in context of the world situation.

[ih8music]

i wasn't implying, i was saying outright that killing is killing no matter who's doing it and for what reason. it is wrong and there is no justification for it at all. you can roll your eyes, but it's not black and white here.

I think you're trying to say it IS black & white here. killing is always bad according to you. I disagree and could come up with a number of scenarios in which I believe killing someone is perfectly justified.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I think you're trying to say it IS black & white here.

 

I think he's saying good guy/bad guy isn't black and white here, FWIW. That's how I read it.

[lamradio]

I think you're trying to say it IS black & white here. killing is always bad according to you. I disagree and could come up with a number of scenarios in which I believe killing someone is perfectly justified.

 

Killing Bin Laden was definitely justified, although I think he deserved worse... He should have been killed Dexter style... Tied down to a table, knife in the heart..

 

A bullet to the head is quick and painless.. Although I'm sure there was that brief "oh shit, I'm fucked aren't I" moment...

[Guest Speed Racer]

A bullet to the head is quick and painless.. Although I'm sure there was that brief "oh shit, I'm fucked aren't I" moment...

 

Brief like a 40 minute shoot-out in his front yard that followed a helicopter crash, yeah.

[Good Old Neon]

For what it’s worth, with Osama dead, the US’s Boogey Man position is now accepting new applicants – which, can only be good news in this economy.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Brief like a 40 minute shoot-out in his front yard that followed a helicopter crash, yeah.

 

It wasn't a "40 minute shootout". The entire operation took 40 minute and most of that (according to sources) was taken up in the search for and gathering of computer hard drives and documents.