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Is Pat the new Jay?


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Jay:

Talented multi-instrumentalist

Heavily involved with / major influence on production

Key figure in delivering a very strong, change-of-pace record for the band

Appears to be second most influential person in the band on what they sound like

Hair

 

Pat:

See above

 

Well?

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Jay:

Talented multi-instrumentalist

Heavily involved with / major influence on production

Key figure in delivering a very strong, change-of-pace record for the band

Appears to be second most influential person in the band on what they sound like

Hair

 

Pat:

He's not Jay

 

Well?

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He is not the "new Jay" in that he doesn't share the songwriting. To me, above all else, that's where Jay shined and was (I assume) a sounding board for Jeff. I don't think that there really is someone like that in Wilco now. Jeff could use it, but he doesn't need it. "The Whole Love" shows that he's doing alright by himself. I do wish there was more songwriting input from the other guys, just to see what they'd come up with, though.

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I argued this a while ago on a different forum, but i'd say absolutely, and I see him taking on an even greater role on the next record.

 

Wilco songs, at least since Jay, don't often have co-writing credits, but Pat got one for Deeper Down. That plus the co-production credit on the Whole Love tells me he's becoming Tweedy's sideman in more ways than one. No complaints here.

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I don't think that he is "The new Jay", but i certainly think he fills in at least part of the gap Jay left in the band that hadn't quite been filled for a while (that Jim O'rourke arguably filled temporarily). I think that having an inside member, Pat, co-produce the record gave The Whole Love a bit more umph than SBS and W(TA), which fell a little short on the production side if you ask me

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I think Pat's very talented, and his credited bridges on 3 "Whole Love" songs (especially Dawned On Me)...which really help make those songs more than just a "good" pop song...are the types of things that Jay Bennett was so brilliant at. But I think Jay was a very special musical talent and wouldn't put Pat in Jay's league.

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I've been holding back posting a response to this one, but I fully understand where the OP and the responders are coming from.

 

Jay was a mad scientist. Guitarist, keyboardist, producer, collaborator...but he was also an instigator, a co-dependent enabler, aggressive, obsessive and abrasive.

 

Although it has never really been stated, Max and Bob were pushed out and the statements seem to indicate that Jay, if not the reason, was certainly egging it on.

 

Jay had so very obviously worn out his welcome IATTBYH certainly allowed a lot the tension to come to light (the bitter comments by Leroy on the secondary audio track of are really stark).

 

Pat has the multi-instrumentalist role covered. He is adept at keys and six stringers. He also is a readily proficient hand as a producer. Songwriting contributions may not be quite as overt and evident, but it is there.

 

Things are a lot more emotionaly healthy these days, and that points to the stability of the personalities in the band.

 

I think Jeff was on a subconscious than conscious campaign to rid himself of the unhealthy aspects of his life. Jay's departure seems pre-ordained and inevitable with the benefit of ten+ years hindsight. Some of us see the need to lionize Jay as the lost genius of the band. He was musically gifted and personally troubled.

 

Of course, as always, YMMV.

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Although it has never really been stated, Max and Bob were pushed out and the statements seem to indicate that Jay, if not the reason, was certainly egging it on.

I have no idea about what happened w/ Max... but wasn't there a scene in IATTBYH where Jay laments his new diminished role now that Glenn has arrived and he & Jeff are collaborating so much now? I came away from that with the impression that he wasn't a fan of getting rid of Bob - but I could certainly be wrong.

 

As for the Pat vs. Jay comparison: I love Pat, and yes they play many of the same instruments, but he's no Jay -- on the keys or on the guitar. To be fair, Pat isn't asked to play lead since Nels is there -- but I've never gotten the impression that he was even close to Jay as a guitarist. Who knows who's really more influential behind the scenes re: production & songwriting, but on the stage I don't think I've ever gotten shivers from Pat like Jay would often provide.

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I have no idea about what happened w/ Max... but wasn't there a scene in IATTBYH where Jay laments his new diminished role now that Glenn has arrived and he & Jeff are collaborating so much now? I came away from that with the impression that he wasn't a fan of getting rid of Bob - but I could certainly be wrong.

 

I think you're confusing Bob with Ken Coomer?

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The only thing I can think of is the quote from Max in "Learning How to Die" when he said something about his diminished role around the time of recording Being There, that they were moving away from the alt-country sounds and using the studio more -- and he was becoming more of a 'background color' guy instead of a soloist. And he said something like "Jay's telling Jeff, you don't need Max anymore..."

 

As for Bob, I think that was a group decision. Also remember reading that in the book. They had the roadies sabotage Bob's gear because he kept turning his amp up too loud.

 

If you go back and listen to the recordings of Wilco's two-night stand in Minneapolis back in October 1997, during Jeff's stage banter (which is profanity-ridden and frequently vulgar - and hilarious) he keeps giving Bob shit about one of the pedals he's using and tells him to stop using it in Wilco, unless he wants to go join Whiskeytown. He makes a little speech about how they like to cuss in Wilco and then right into the mic, calls Bob a c*cksucker and says, "Bob, that's our way of telling you that you won't be on the road with us next time..."

 

He was fired before the next tour.

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