An Important Read for Music Fans

[Magnetized]

I read the whole original post and most of the follow-up, and like Lou and others have said, it's a murky issue. I can easily agree with either side on any given day on the actual merits of the arguments.

 

But to me there's a difference between unrealistic idealism and enlightened pragmatism, and I'll go with pragmatism any day. (I take the same stance on politics, environmental concerns, etc, as well, which annoys the crap out of my more idealistic liberal friends! I consider myself extremely liberal, by the way, but not pie in the sky.)

 

To avoid repeating the same things that have been said better by others, I'll say that I side much more with Bob Lefsetz, Jeff Tweedy and Lawrence Lessig on this issue, although I don't deny that it's a really problematic area.

 

This is sort of related, as well, and it has been driving me crazy at live shows recently: the incessant hawking of product from the stage. The top tier artists don't do it much, but it can totally ruin the vibe of a show for me when after every two or three songs the artist mentions the CDs, t-shirts, etc. at the merch table, as well as the fact that they'll be out there signing at intermission or after the show. One or two mentions is fine, but it can get really overbearing. The worst example I've seen recently was Cowboy Junkies.

[ih8music]

This is sort of related, as well, and it has been driving me crazy at live shows recently: the incessant hawking of product from the stage. The top tier artists don't do it much, but it can totally ruin the vibe of a show for me when after every two or three songs the artist mentions the CDs, t-shirts, etc. at the merch table, as well as the fact that they'll be out there signing at intermission or after the show. One or two mentions is fine, but it can get really overbearing. The worst example I've seen recently was Cowboy Junkies.

 

I agree that it can be annoying, but it's also hard to blame them... when I hear stuff like that, I take it as "we're going to lose our shirts on this tour if you guys don't help us out at the merch table"

[tinnitus photography]

This is sort of related, as well, and it has been driving me crazy at live shows recently: the incessant hawking of product from the stage. The top tier artists don't do it much, but it can totally ruin the vibe of a show for me when after every two or three songs the artist mentions the CDs, t-shirts, etc. at the merch table, as well as the fact that they'll be out there signing at intermission or after the show. One or two mentions is fine, but it can get really overbearing. The worst example I've seen recently was Cowboy Junkies.

 

funny, i haven't noticed that trend at all recently.

[lost highway]

So the question then becomes:

How does one change the online/download experience into a public market? A place where behaviors are witnessed by the public at-large?

 

Make it so that it's an honor system... but names of purchasers/downloaders are displayed for all to see, along with donation amount?

Or is that too much of a privacy intrusion?

 

[LouieB]

The guy from the dismemberment plan says it all.

I am at a folk fest in upstate NY so I'll let him speak for me.

 

LouieB

 

The guy from the dismemberment plan says it all.

I am at a folk fest in upstate NY so I'll let him speak for me.

 

LouieB

[LouieB]

The guy from the dismemberment plan says it all.

I am at a folk fest in upstate NY so I'll let him speak for me.

 

LouieB

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Straw man arguments and ad hominum attacks aside, it is not so gray an area. Just because it is possible to do something doesn't mean it should or has to be done.

 

I guess I have a different view as a reformed music stealer. It was fun chasing the stuff down and I really did BUY other albums by the artist I ripped off, but as I was downloading the stuff, I knew what I was doing.

As I have A LOT of CD's,maybe I have a different view of this. I'm sure if I were an impoverished student, I would have a totally different view of things.

I have a juch different relationship to music and technology than my son. This is topic for ethicists, not attornies.

Ambivalence is the word here.

[LouieB]

Okay I admit it I have stolen every bit of david Lowery music I own. I have tracked down nearly all the Camper Van Beethoven LPs and bought them used and I guess the Cracker CDs I own are also all used. Those seem to have hit the used CD bins at about the same rate that ther were released.

 

Come get me David.

 

LouieB

[Oil Can Boyd]

Gang of Four's Dave Allen weighs in, and aside from taking some cheap shots at Lowery, makes some good points:

 

http://www.north.com/latest/the-internet-could-care-less-about-your-mediocre-band/

[Doug C]

Thanks for posting that. Very well said. I agree with Allen completely.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I agree with Allen completely too. Great read.

Feel kinda bad for Emily White. Any musician beating up on her should stop and consider: how did you get famous? By creating your art. How did Emily become (in)famous? By getting verbally dressed down on the internet.

[LouieB]

I am glad he nails Lowrey for using Vic Chestnutt and Mark Linkous as examples too. That totally blows his entire premise. It really was the lowest blow of all.

 

LouieB

[Doug C]

I agree, Lou. When I first read Professor van Cracker, that "connection" made me feel dirty.

 

Also, VC nation, I ask what the verdict would be on this anecdote? I illegally downloaded Conor Oberst and the Mystic valley Band Outer South a few years ago. My daughter somehow deleted it a couple months ago and I ordered it used on Amazon for $6.53 including postage (cheaper than a download). It arrived yesterday. It is not in the traditional jewel case but in a clear hard plastic case. It has a barcoded label allowing for easy checkout and stamps of various checkout dates from 27 July 2009 to 17 February 2011. Both the disc and booklet have stickers on them proclaiming "property of St. Louis Public Library".

 

What would Lowery think? What would Morrison and Allen think? What do you think? I think that it is hilarious.

[lost highway]

I love that example, Doug, because your illegal download is considered stealing and your Amazon purchase is considered legitimately buying used. Neither of them gave Conor Oberst any money.

 

One thing I was thinking about this is the various classes of artists. Now, this is not an ethical argument. More a practical look at various burdens (or lack thereofs).

 

Upper Class Artist

 

Their albums usually go gold. They sell a lot of them, and a ton of singles on Itunes. When they come to your town they play the Comfort Dental Amphitheater or the Geico Insurance Baseball Stadium. Their concert tickets range from $115- $220. A ton of people steal their music and they're still rich.

 

Middle Class Artist

 

These are the Dr. Dogs, the New Pornographers of the world. They sell a decent amount of albums and downloads but probably only make a yearly bonus worth out of it. Not album sales anyone can live off. The only way they can make any big money without touring is using their music in a commercial. They play theater shows with ticket prices ranging from $20- $50. A fair amount of people steal their music and it effects their annual income in a notable way.

 

Developing Artist

 

These bands are hustling to get on good local shows. Self releasing albums, or on a friends label (which might be a co-op where they still have to pay). These bands spend between $500- $3,000 on a recording, a couple grand more if they turn it into discs. They try to sell cd's at gigs and in local record stores. They might try to collect a little revenue from a site like Bandcamp. Or perhaps they've invested a chunk of change (or gone in with other bands on a digital distro co-op) to have their music on itunes. They net between $0 and $300 paid for each gig. Maybe a hip one can pick up $800- $1,000 for packing a bar, Recording and releasing music is pretty much a guaranteed debt that might get paid off if they do really well live (don't get me started on trying to maintain a used van and book a tour), but in many cases the members take personally as a loss (while hopefully a personal/artistic gain). No one is stealing music from these people. In fact they often are asking you to. They just sent you a link to the soundcloud of their new single. Why haven't you listened to it. It's free. Come on man we worked hard on it.

 

So these are obviously generalizations, with plenty of gray area in between, exceptions etc. From where I sit and Upper Class artist is rich either way, A Developing Artist is screwed either way (and no one is stealing their music), and a Middle Class Artist has a more fragile bottom line that can be more seriously effected.

 

For more information on how you can start a band and lose all your money read: http://www.negativla...ews/?page_id=17

[tinnitus photography]

 

great read from Anohni (fka Antony):

https://thecreativeindependent.com/people/anohni-on-art-corporations-and-the-music-industry/

 

 

 

The “Drone Bomb Me” video was paid for by Apple. It was an experiment and a challenge for me. The record companies can’t afford to advance the whole cost for making the record anymore, let alone pay for an ambitious video. So after a lot of hemming and hawing I agreed to work with Apple on the video. I wanted the video to have a wider reach, and only Apple could offer me the resources to do so.

 

No one got paid to do that video except the hairdresser. The whole thing was done basically for free, just to make a product that we were then obliged to rent exclusively to Apple for a fraction of what they would had to have paid for it if they had framed it as an advertisement, which is of course what it was, though I didn’t want to admit it at the time.

 

My being bought as a politically outspoken artist is a more potent advertising tool for Apple than a 100 more explicit ads. It creates the false aura for Apple of being cutting edge, of being artist advocates, of being innovative mavericks, of being environmentally friendly, of caring about people and communities, instead of being the McDonalds of consumer high tech whose wealth was largely pilfered from what was once a biodiverse music industry.

 

How brilliant is that? All of us pitching in as if we were working for a charity, and Apple, one of the biggest companies in the world, walks with an ad. I felt like a house cat that had been declawed. Those are the terms of engagement now in the music industry. We really get what we deserve. I am sure we are already at a point where we are forfeiting important artistic voices as a consequence of this.

 

Think of Philip Morris sponsoring all the world’s dance companies, companies that celebrate breath and healthfulness. Now think of Apple, Nike, Samsung and Google selling their products as the face of independence, creative freedom, and democracy.

 

All it took was one generation to forget. It’s like, you clearcut a forest and a few years later the young ones never remember that there were ever any trees. They grew up playing on dead stumps and that’s the new normal. It’s the same thing with the kind of capitalism we’re experiencing now. The trauma is so quickly erased, and the new terms for engagement are accepted as an inevitability.