Presidential Race (Respector Edition)

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Coventions are tent revivals for the faithful.

One cannot glean anything substantive or important from these self-congratulatory jerk fests.

[lost highway]

Does anyone else find it weird that we live in a time when the Democratic party has to awkwardly stumble over adding an amendment to their platform about Jerusalem being the capital of Israel? That's weird to me.

[LouieB]

Does anyone else find it weird that we live in a time when the Democratic party has to awkwardly stumble over adding an amendment to their platform about Jerusalem being the capital of Israel? That's weird to me.

It depends. Some folks feel that it will derail peace talks with the Palestinians. It isn't like the talks are going very well, but there are plenty of people on the right that support a two state solution and Jerusalem is a major sticking point in the negotiations. How is it weird to you?

 

LouieB

 

Coventions are tent revivals for the faithful.

One cannot glean anything substantive or important from these self-congratulatory jerk fests.

True but jerking off can be fairly entertaining and feels good.

 

LouieB

[Tweedling]

Does anyone else find it weird that we live in a time when the Democratic party has to awkwardly stumble over adding an amendment to their platform about Jerusalem being the capital of Israel? That's weird to me.

It's weird to me. Just seems like a no brainer to acknowledge Jerusalem as being the capital and should've been in there already. It's pretty much always been our stance as a country. Don't even get me started on the mention of God.

 

True but jerking off can be fairly entertaining and feels good.

 

LouieB

Yeah, but it's not cool when other people are watching... Believe me! Hahaha

[ih8music]

Yeah that god vote was pretty terrible and embarrassing. A major tactical error getting themselves into that position in the first place. Most democrats believe in god, they just dont think religion should be the basis of public policy. It would have been fairly simple to have that stated in the platform from the get go.

[KevinG]

well a couple of conversations back Pillow had stated that the platforms don't matter. So why bring it up?

 

The GOP platform is an exercise in big government controlling our lives (who we can marry, what we can do to our bodies etc.)

 

The Dem platform is a godless document that wants to take all of the money you make and give it lesbians for their abortions.

 

all kidding aside, the Dems (at the urging of PBO) made a big mistake trying to amend it. The only people would care is FoxNews and most people watching them aren't going to vote GOP anyway. The next day it would have been a non story, and now it is big one.

 

Tweedling, I would like to get you started on the God thing. Do you have a problem there is no mention of God? (Just like the Constitution BTW.) Or the way they went about trying to change it?

[lost highway]

How is it weird to you?

 

It's like if they decided to make an announcement that the Dems officially recognize Tibet is a Chinese territory. Before I even get into the controversial ethics of the situation, it seems so oddly non-sequiter. Kind of creepy really. I don't think God, or Jerusalem should be priorities for the U.S. government right now.

[LouieB]

It's like if they decided to make an announcement that the Dems officially recognize Tibet is a Chinese territory. Before I even get into the controversial ethics of the situation, it seems so oddly non-sequiter. Kind of creepy really. I don't think God, or Jerusalem should be priorities for the U.S. government right now.

Actually it isn't like that at all. The capital fo Israel is a long term subject that has serious and long term politcal implications for both the State of Israel and a possible Palestinian state. The US has not been involved in negotiating a settlement to the Tibet China conflict for decades, but the US has been involved in the mideast peace talks that long. Mideast peace IS a US priority and will continue to be for any administration., \

 

The actual seat of government in Israel is Tel Aviv, and most countries have embassies there I believe. Maybe none of this is something that should be in party platforms. Certainly the voice vote was a joke.

 

LouieB

[Tweedling]

Personal preference

[lost highway]

I guess I'm being subtle. Let's see if I can get this out there in a 'Respector' kind of mode:

 

The involvement of the U.S. in Israeli/Palestinian politics is a double-edged sword of being high priority and a taboo talking point (at times). We have funneled unreasonable amounts of money into Israel. Some U.S. politicians have shamed us for weakening our alliance after Clinton clucked her tongue at Israel for war crimes and human rights violations. The U.S. has himmed and hawed about diplomatic solutions as Israel has violated agreements and pushed into Palestinian territory, all the while still throwing more money at Israel.

 

 

Right now we have serious life or death issues continuing in Haiti, Syria, the Congo, and Yemen. Not to mention the people starving in Gaza who are being punished by the Israeli government for the actions of radical groups. Somehow the Democratic party needs to go on record before the party gets underway "Just so everyone knows we think the capital is Jerusalem, not Tel Aviv. So we're cool, right Israel?"

 

It strikes me as another example of lobbyists pushing the focus where they like.

[Magnetized]

I guess I'm being subtle. Let's see if I can get this out there in a 'Respector' kind of mode:

 

The involvement of the U.S. in Israeli/Palestinian politics is a double-edged sword of being high priority and a taboo talking point (at times). We have funneled unreasonable amounts of money into Israel. Some U.S. politicians have shamed us for weakening our alliance after Clinton clucked her tongue at Israel for war crimes and human rights violations. The U.S. has himmed and hawed about diplomatic solutions as Israel has violated agreements and pushed into Palestinian territory, all the while still throwing more money at Israel.

 

 

Right now we have serious life or death issues continuing in Haiti, Syria, the Congo, and Yemen. Not to mention the people starving in Gaza who are being punished by the Israeli government for the actions of radical groups. Somehow the Democratic party needs to go on record before the party gets underway "Just so everyone knows we think the capital is Jerusalem, not Tel Aviv. So we're cool, right Israel?"

 

It strikes me as another example of lobbyists pushing the focus where they like.

Perfectly stated, in my opinion.

[Tweedling]

 

It strikes me as another example of lobbyists pushing the focus where they like.

Lobbyists or an incumbent who is trying to cover his bases at the last minute?

[Magnetized]

Lobbyists or an incumbent who is trying to cover his bases at the last minute?

I don't think that's the point. I think the Democratic party was trying to acknowlege the complexity of Middle East politics by not including the "Jerusalem is the capital" plank in its platform, and it feels like a wussy move to have reinstated it. But that's politics. It's probably not realistic to think you can get reelected if you are seen as anything other than totally pro-Israel. Acknowledging that it's a complicated situation with merits on both sides does not exactly translate in a soundbite-driven political arena. So, as with many other issues, pragmatism trumps messy, complicated truth-telling. And, ultimately, that's OK with me.

[ih8music]

Yeah, the Jerusalem vote I can understand a lot more than the God vote. Both were tactical errors in how they came across, but I can see the reasoning behind excluding Jerusalem-as-capital-of-Israel from the initial platform, as well as the reasoning for wanting to add it afterward. It may be pandering to the American Jewish population at the expense of the Palestinians, but that's hardly new news. The God vote was just a flat-out failure all around.

[KevinG]

So Romney is going to keep the preexisting conditions part of ACA and obviously remove the personal mandate. I wonder if he realizes this would be a disaster for the insurance companies and would end up costing the American people. Oh wait he does, that is why he put the mandate in the Mass. law he created.

 

See with keeping the preexisting conditions and not having a mandate to buy insurance, you will have people buy insurance only when they are seriously hurt or become sick. Their money has not been paying in to the pool to insurance companies. The company can't deny them, so where is that money going to come from? From higher premiums.

 

The preexisting conditions part of ACA is very popular and this shows that Mitt either

1. Does not understand the complexity of the issue or
   
2. Will say or do anything to get elected
   

 

It would have been much better if the government just set up their own insurance company that would compete in the insurance marketplace.

[LouieB]

I think Romney is number 2.

 

LouieB

[The High Heat]

I think Romney is number 2.

 

LouieB

 

I see what you did there.

[Tweedling]

which one is Obama?

[lost highway]

I'll bite: pee pee?

 

Back on topic: how will Romney bring independent female voters to his side?

[KevinG]

I'll bite: pee pee?

 

Back on topic: how will Romney bring independent female voters to his side?

 

I honestly don't think he can.

[ih8music]

Back on topic: how will Romney bring independent female voters to his side?

 

I haven't heard him say anything that would appeal to that group, no.

 

But then again I'm an old white democrat-leaning dude so what do I know.

[Sparky speaks]

Don't do as I say...

 

[smells like flowers]

This thread has been very interesting to follow. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool liberal so obviously I will support President Obama. The extent to which I follow the nitty-gritty details of politics is limited, but as far as broad brush-strokes, I find myself in agreement with most of what PBO says.

 

But I'm posting because I'm so discouraged about the degree to which the candidates admit their possible victories are predicated on fundraising. I got the umpteenth email from the Obama campaign this morning, pleading for money because their campaign chest is now about the same as Romney's and just pulling ahead a bit can mean a win for Obama.

 

What?! Is it possible that money will win this thing? I'm so naive, I admit, but if this is the reality, it just depresses me.

[KevinG]

This thread has been very interesting to follow. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool liberal so obviously I will support President Obama. The extent to which I follow the nitty-gritty details of politics is limited, but as far as broad brush-strokes, I find myself in agreement with most of what PBO says.

 

But I'm posting because I'm so discouraged about the degree to which the candidates admit their possible victories are predicated on fundraising. I got the umpteenth email from the Obama campaign this morning, pleading for money because their campaign chest is now about the same as Romney's and just pulling ahead a bit can mean a win for Obama.

 

What?! Is it possible that money will win this thing? I'm so naive, I admit, but if this is the reality, it just depresses me.

 

Yes money is important. Money helps you get your message out. Ads and trips 50 trips to Ohio in a month are not free. The person with the most money will have the most opportunity to do these things, thus have a better chance of winning.

 

PBO set a bad precedent by not taking public funding in 2008. This allowed the constant fund raising race we are in now. It is sad. I think every candidate should be required to take public funding and abide by its rules. Though this would make the spending by out side PAC's even greater.

[Winston Legthigh]

It's not money spent on ads - it's money spent on organizing transportation to get people to the polls. GOP understands the importance of this.