Presidential Race (Respector Edition)

[lost highway]

it is a bad option under Bush term III Obama.

 

Not the sharpest piece of rhetoric you've generated in this thread.

[Sparky speaks]

But true...

[lost highway]

Truth can be ridiculed, but not everything that is ridiculed is true.

[KevinG]

Not the sharpest piece of rhetoric you've generated in this thread.

 

and he was starting to make sense up until then.

[KevinG]

I have always thought of myself a middle class. Both me and my wife work full time jobs, have two kids in public school, a mortgage, two cars. I live in a nice neighborhood with good schools, etc. I have a modest savings and a 401k. Also I am in the $75k - $100K income bracket.

 

According to Mitt Romney that does not constitute middle class. Mitt defines middle-income as $200,000 to $250,000 and less. Yes I know there has been some semantics with his statement, having the words "and less" as a qualifier (which begs the question is a family of four who makes 15K a year also middle class?)

 

Again this shows how Mitt is out of touch with American people, where the median income is around 50K. To think someone who makes 200K a year is middle class, that is ridiculous.

[Guest Jules]

words

[NoJ]

TV party tonight, alright!

[KevinG]

words

 

What does that mean? Mitt said some words, the words he said seem to show that he does not have an understanding of the average American. That is my point.

 

Words yep, understanding of the average American, nope.

[Guest Jules]

Why is a class label so important to you? Isn't it all relative to where you live anyway? 200-250K probably is "middle class" in some areas of the country, and is probably "filthy rich" in others. It's all a matter of perspective, no?

 

Yes, and Romney's perspective is different than other people's perspective. That's just the way it is.

[KevinG]

Why is a class label so important to you? Isn't it all relative to where you live anyway? 200-250K probably is "middle class" in some areas of the country, and is probably "filthy rich" in others. It's all a matter of perspective, no?

 

Yes, and Romney's perspective is different than other people's perspective. That's just the way it is.

 

The Middle Class is the true engine of America. It is where the majority of the people are, they are the greatest consumer of goods. This country's success is determined by how well the Middle Class does.

 

I am not sure anywhere in this country people making over 200K is considered middle class. In NY, the most expensive city in the US, has a median income of 60K. Someone in NY who makes 200K is doing pretty well. Anyone who is making 200K is doing pretty well anywhere in this country. I have always used the formula if you are making 4 times the median income of your area you are doing pretty good for yourself and could be considered rich.

 

Sure it is a matter of perspective, but Romney's perspective is so skewed, it begs the question does Romney understand what it is to be middle class, let alone poor. I have worked hard to get where I am today, I have lived pay check to pay check, I have seen my savings wiped out because of job loss. I can't see how Romney can claim to fix the economy (with tax breaks on the rich and tax increases and program cuts on the poor and middle class) when he doesn't understand what makes someone middle class.

[Tweedling]

 

 

So what's stopping us from going into North Korea then?

 

Oh right, not a ton of oil there.

I'm just saying its probably going to happen. Obama, Romney, oil, no oil

[Guest Jules]

The Middle Class is the true engine of America. It is where the majority of the people are, they are the greatest consumer of goods. This country's success is determined by how well the Middle Class does.

 

I am not sure anywhere in this country people making over 200K is considered middle class. In NY, the most expensive city in the US, has a median income of 60K. Someone in NY who makes 200K is doing pretty well. Anyone who is making 200K is doing pretty well anywhere in this country. I have always used the formula if you are making 4 times the median income of your area you are doing pretty good for yourself and could be considered rich.

 

Sure it is a matter of perspective, but Romney's perspective is so skewed, it begs the question does Romney understand what it is to be middle class, let alone poor. I have worked hard to get where I am today, I have lived pay check to pay check, I have seen my savings wiped out because of job loss. I can't see how Romney can claim to fix the economy (with tax breaks on the rich and tax increases and program cuts on the poor and middle class) when he doesn't understand what makes someone middle class.

 

Ok, maybe "upper middle". You need to look outside the cities too. I would not define 200K income as "rich", but again it's just a word.

 

On the perspective issue, of course Romney doesn't understand what it is to be poor. Niether does Obama or any other president for that matter. It's pretty much irrelevant.

[bilbrekm]

I'm just jumping into this conversation, but from what I understand, Romney's assertion that 200-250K is middle income stands at a household level, not individual. I don't believe in the man or his politics, and to think even 100K for two individuals shows a lack of awareness that is striking, but it's important to note.

[NoJ]

About 6 years ago my househeld was in the upper middle class category. When I realized that, I was like....huh? Sure didnt feel that way....where's my bassboat, my second house, my beach vacations, my new cars, my mistresses, my fancy gadgets, my fatty dinners at swanky restaurants.....now I'm just trying to keep the lights on.

[Guest Jules]

In case anyone can't tell (it's a challenge), NoJ is agreeing with me.

[KevinG]

Ok, maybe "upper middle". You need to look outside the cities too. I would not define 200K income as "rich", but again it's just a word.

 

On the perspective issue, of course Romney doesn't understand what it is to be poor. Niether does Obama or any other president for that matter. It's pretty much irrelevant.

 

I think Obama has a better understanding of the poor and middle class then Romney does their upbringing alone shows that. I also think you will find many presidents through out history have grown up poor.

 

Why is perspective so unimportant in this case and seems to be so important in the case of business? Romney has mentioned that you shouldn't be able to run for president unless you have business experience. This experience no doubt would give a business perspective to the job of presidency (according to Mitt).

 

Now I am not saying you have to be poor (or have been poor) to be president. But an awareness and understanding of who is poor, middle class, rich etc. is important. Statements like the 200k thing and even the 10K bet with Rick Perry during the debates show that MItt has no concept of what it is like to be Middle Class or Poor.

 

By me pointing this out isn't going to change your mid on Mitt or PBO, but I think it is important to discuss and acknowledge the thought and thought processes behind a candidate. Pointing out lies, deeds and statements go into what builds "character". Not if he is a good person or bad person, not that type of character. But who that person is, how they will govern, what type of leader they are. These things are important to me and I welcome and I have always welcomed criticisms of PBO, it brings me to a necessary level of understanding of who he is.

[Guest Jules]

I think Obama has a better understanding of the poor and middle class then Romney does their upbringing alone shows that.

 

I think Obama had it pretty good.

[NoJ]

Whoa! Hey, you're a challenge, Jules!

 

I think Obama had it pretty good.

 

Wait, didnt he live in a hut in some Muslim compound in Jakarta for awhile?

[Tweedling]

Whoa! Hey, you're a challenge, Jules!

 

 

 

Wait, didnt he live in a hut in some Muslim compound in Jakarta for awhile?

I don't believe theres any record of that but his time living in Hawaii was probably pretty nice.

[KevinG]

I think Obama had it pretty good.

 

Obama was middle class, he spent his time growing up in Hawaii here. Mitt grew up rich spending his time here.

 

It is difference circumstances, different life experiences. Both backgrounds make up the rich tapestries that are these people's lives. I don't know the personal finances of Obama growing up, he may have had it good or what not. But there is no account that he had it as well off as Mitt did. (and now I have gotten into the game of who is poorer, ugh.)

 

What I am trying to say the candidates' upbringing add to their level of understanding of economic and social issues. Mitt's has shown that he does not understand the majority of Americans out there. Not say being rich precludes you from that understanding, but this and other statement shows he doesn't understand what it is to be middle class. It is important to me in this economy to have a president understand my situation. This also seems to be important to the GOP since almost every speech mentioned how they or someone in their family line was middle class or poor.

[Sparky speaks]

I thought Obama lived here...

 

[brownie]

I'm just jumping into this conversation, but from what I understand, Romney's assertion that 200-250K is middle income stands at a household level, not individual.

 

And even that is absurd. I can think of one household in my friends/family circle that hits this mark. Everyone else does not (including me), and I live in a very high cost of living area. Frankly, most of my friends are one-adult households. Some are still trying to support children, some are not. As for my family, most are two-income households, but none come near this level...maybe half, at best.

to think even 100K for two individuals shows a lack of awareness that is striking, but it's important to note.

 

Exactly.

[Sparky speaks]

My wife and I are making close to that 200K combined figure before taxes. After federal, state and local property taxes, much less, and after routine bills, medical coverage deductions and paying back loans for three kids college expenses even less. Doesn't feel like I am any better off then when we were making 30K combined. I am not taking sides in this particular debate but most two income families I am familiar with are bringing home about the same if not more. I don't think those figures are that far off for combined middle class family incomes of folks who have been working for 30 years. I live in south-eastern CT and things are pretty expensive here. If you told me 30 years ago I would be making that kind of money I would have envisioned a much more luxurious lifestyle than I am living now. Inflation has a way of destroying the value of your dollar. I'm not complaining, but it is all relative I guess. I don't think people making less than 80K combined can survive in the community where I live which is considered middle class suburbia. Remember that John Belushi bit when he talks about inflation and how we'll all be living in $500,000 houses someday? He wasn't that far off. Doesn't mean we are members of the 1%. I don't care for either Romney or Soetoro but I don't think he is off base. It depends a great deal on where you live. The same jobs my wife and I have would pay much less in other parts of the country where the cost of living is much less. Again, it is all relative.

[lost highway]

I'm a teacher. I make a little less than 40K. I'm at the beginning of my career. My dad taught for 30 years and retired after reaching 80k. This is how I understand middle class. I don't live in New Haven, or San Francisco, but my parents owned their home my whole life. I own one too.

 

Middle class is a weird word. Where I'm coming from, when politicians talk about the middle class doing well I imagine they mean making sure that people earning between 30k and 100k are a plentiful population with health care etc.

[choo-choo-charlie]

I'd like to add a little levity to the thread:

 

http://t.co/l1DLOvWG