Atticus Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 At least he doesn't resort to snarky sarcasm and name-calling. Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Neither do I I'm just observing his infallibility and in the world I grew up in only one being was infallible. Just an observation. By the way saying someone deserves a fair hearing and then unequivocally declaring them a deserter is not logical nor fair and is actually calling that person names, or labeling them without due process. No one on a fucking message board has the power to declare someone guilty or innocent that's for other people to decide. Declaring them without question to be guilty is to join in the lynch mob, which is bullshit. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Let's step back from the edge here, take a deep breath and look at this again. With this arguing about if Bergdahl was a traitor, terrorist or whatnot, have we lost site of the original issue? Should we have made the deal for Bergdahl's release? Prior to the prisoner swap that secured Bergdahl's release we knew this as fact. He was the last remaining POW in Afghanistan. We do know that he went AWOL (possibly deserted?). Yet still many, many people (especially those on the right) said the US should do whatever is necessary to get his release. Intelligence had been working on this prisoner swap and had reason to believe his life was in danger and made the deal quickly. Furthermore hostage negotiations and prisoners releases from Gitmo are not that uncommon (the previous administration released over 500 prisoners some of whom later were tied to Benghazi and other attacks). So regardless of what you think about Bergdahl now, if you were the President, or an advisor, would you have made the deal that sent a POW home? If so why? If not, why not? Is there another deal that you would have made? Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 We have made countless swaps to get our soldiers back in the last several military quagmires we have gotten ourselves into. This one got controversial because it is close to election season, Obama stamped his name on it, and Berghdal is a Muslim, or at least a Muslim sympathizer who grew disillusioned with a very nasty and pointless war. As far as I'm concerned the bed wetters on this one are just spewing party-line rhetoric conjured to excite the base. The most interesting thing here though is the fallout right after Memorial Day. How many damn baseball games did these folks take their hats off for the veterans in attendance, or wipe a patriotic tear for their sacrifice while ignoring the fact that the VA is in shambles and the guy with one leg is still looking for spare change even though Vietnam was decades ago. It has become unpatriotic to criticize wars in our nation, under a taboo of honoring the troops. Meanwhile when you look at the condition they return in, and the circumstances they return to you realize the whole thing is starting to suffer from a cognitive dissonance/Orwellian double-speak thing. "We honor these heroes who fought for our freedom." Wrong on both counts. Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 At a minimum, he needs to be tried for desertion and given a dishonorable discharge. He should also have to repay the costs of the search efforts. If it is found that he collaborated with the enemy, he should be executed. If it can be proved that he assisted them by describing security details, methods of operation, etc., then he likely has the blood of American soldiers on his hands and he's more worthy of execution than Private Slovik. It isn't conjecture that he deserted, either. He packed all of his valuables and sent them home. He was seen crawling away from the base by Afghan nationals. Others reported that he was asking where he could find the Taliban. He's a deserter at best and possibly a traitor at worst. As someone else has mentioned, I want him to have his day in court, but the desertion charge seems like a slam-dunk case. I've never called him a terrorist and I said that he may be a traitor. That distinction will depend on whether or not he aided the enemy. The UCMJ defines a deserter as someone who walks away from his place of duty with no intention of returning. There is no time limit that divides AWOL and desertion. Read Article 85 of the UCMJ for more information. I see that Hixter has called the guy a deserter, which I'm not sure anyone disputes. What's with all the hysterics? Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 How many damn baseball games did these folks take their hats off for the veterans in attendance, or wipe a patriotic tear for their sacrifice while ignoring the fact that the VA is in shambles and the guy with one leg is still looking for spare change even though Vietnam was decades ago. seriously? I've seen this sentiment all over the internet lately and it's really frustrating. Just because someone goes about his or her daily life does not mean he/she doesn't give a shit about the VA situation (or any other important human cause). We can't all skip work and stand in the street protesting every day. You have no idea what those people at the baseball games were thinking, feeling and/or doing about the VA. Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 It's hard not to conclude that the pomp/circumstance, hawk rhetoric in this country comes with a lack of authentic caring for the people who served, or the legitimacy of the pentagon's call to action. I wasn't trying to make you feel bad. The greater half of the last century of U.S. foreign policy is littered with military entanglements that were not initiated in good faith and left foreign lands as well as U.S. soldiers in ruins. There comes a point where we need to start talking about more than taking our hats off. At some point people will get wise to the fact that pundits and politicians have been pimping out the word "freedom". Link to post Share on other sites
NoJ Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 It's hard not to conclude that the pomp/circumstance, hawk rhetoric in this country comes with a lack of authentic caring for the people who served, or the legitimacy of the pentagon's call to action. I wasn't trying to make you feel bad. The greater half of the last century of U.S. foreign policy is littered with military entanglements that were not initiated in good faith and left foreign lands as well as U.S. soldiers in ruins. There comes a point where we need to start talking about more than taking our hats off. At some point people will get wise to the fact that pundits and politicians have been pimping out the word "freedom". I concur. Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 I don't dispute that we've made some colossal military and policy blunders. But in the same way posters are calling for people to reserve judgment as to the Bergdahl matter, I think it's wise not to make assumptions on the degree to which a person cares about certain issues just because he or she isn't wailing about them every minute of his/her life or reacting the way you choose to react. Link to post Share on other sites
NoJ Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I don't dispute that we've made some colossal military and policy blunders. But in the same way posters are calling for people to reserve judgment as to the Bergdahl matter, I think it's wise not to make assumptions on the degree to which a person cares about certain issues just because he or she isn't wailing about them every minute of his/her life or reacting the way you choose to react. I concur. Kumbaya, people, kumbaya. Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I don't dispute that we've made some colossal military and policy blunders. But in the same way posters are calling for people to reserve judgment as to the Bergdahl matter, I think it's wise not to make assumptions on the degree to which a person cares about certain issues just because he or she isn't wailing about them every minute of his/her life or reacting the way you choose to react. You're right, but the catch is this is a socio-political judgement, not a personal-psychological judgement. It's not particularly important if I personally have a hypocritical stance of support the troops while not doing anything to help them except rally for pointless wars. What is important is the conversational consensus at large. The way the issue is presented, talked about, and understood at a glance. I think our symbology- the shared mythology around the topic- can be deterministic. Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 What are the posters here doing about the condition of the VA? Just curious. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 "If I was president, I would have gotten Bergdahl back for an 8GB iPhone 3 and a pack of gum."- Jason Jones Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 What are the posters here doing about the condition of the VA? Just curious. I would bet there is not one poster here who is doing a damn thing about the VA situation (and myself included). Not one phone call made to their representative, not one email sent. Maybe a comment to their significant/friend other along the lines, gee that is too bad. We are so wrapped up in our own shit we don't take the time to give a flying fuck about the VA or veterans. I think that is Lost Highway's point, we pay lip service to Veterans, that is all we do. We praise them one day out of the year, but beyond that it nothing. If every person who went to a parade and stood when the flag went by, took five minutes out of their day to writer their representative on the VA, shit would change. But they don't, we can't be bothered. We would rather spend our five minutes bitching about it on a mid-level rock band's message board. And to play it all off like we can't take time out of our busy day is bullshit. As a country we don't care about our Vets. We are glad they fight our wars to keep us free, but when they come home we don't care. Yes, I don't know what those people at the ball games are thinking, that is impossible. But I know what they are doing, nothing. Cause if they were doing something the VA debacle would have never have happened. So yes thoughts are well and good, but actions are what count. And if you can't take time out your day to do something then you don't really care. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Eric Cantor loses in a primary to a TEA party backed candidate. Who would have thought Virginians wanted a more conservative representative. My biggest fear with this is that moderate GOP candidates will swing farther right to save their seat. But it might give a chance for more moderate leaning dems to gain some ground in previously GOP strongholds. I don't think Cantor's seat is in play at all and Brat will likely win, but if it is the Left is really gonna paint him as a far right extremist. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Eric Cantor loses in a primary to a TEA party backed candidate. Who would have thought Virginians wanted a more conservative representative. My biggest fear with this is that moderate GOP candidates will swing farther right to save their seat. But it might give a chance for more moderate leaning dems to gain some ground in previously GOP strongholds. I don't think Cantor's seat is in play at all and Brat will likely win, but if it is the Left is really gonna paint him as a far right extremist. Looks like Cantor's people are blaming the Democrats. Pretty funny. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/eric-cantors-pollster-blames-democrats-131901793.html Link to post Share on other sites
Oil Can Boyd Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Looks like Cantor's people are blaming the Democrats. Pretty funny. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/eric-cantors-pollster-blames-democrats-131901793.htmlAnd not just blaming the Democrats, but blaming Cooter! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/06/ben-cooter-jones_n_5463196.html Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Looks like Cantor's people are blaming the Democrats. Pretty funny. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/eric-cantors-pollster-blames-democrats-131901793.html I wonder what Cantor's thoughts were on Rush Limbaugh's Operation Chaos in 2008. Link to post Share on other sites
calvino Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 To be fair - so far Cantor is blaming ol' Cooter (yet) - his pollster is. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 To be fair - so far Cantor is blaming ol' Cooter (yet) - his pollster is. his Cantor's pollster not one of Cantor's people? also assuming you meant isn't not is. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 If this was accomplished by Democrat constituents, I sure hope they know what they're doing. I read that this is a very red district. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 If this was accomplished by Democrat constituents, I sure hope they know what they're doing. I read that this is a very red district. I am pretty sure Brat will win. It is gonna take a major "can't get pregnant by rape" type of thing for him to lose. Link to post Share on other sites
calvino Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 And not just blaming the Democrats, but blaming Cooter! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/06/ben-cooter-jones_n_5463196.html I wonder what Cantor's thoughts were on Rush Limbaugh's Operation Chaos in 2008. I just would have wrote, 'I wonder what John McLaughlin thoughts were on Rush Limbaugh's Operation Chaos in 2008. ' - since all the linked stories are about McLaughlin --- that's all - it's all a mute point. I am guessing McLaughlin will be looking for a new line of work soon ---- probably as a FOX commentator- if he isn't one already, that is. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I just would have wrote, 'I wonder what John McLaughlin thoughts were on Rush Limbaugh's Operation Chaos in 2008. ' - since all the linked stories are about McLaughlin --- that's all - it's all a mute point. I am guessing McLaughlin will be looking for a new line of work soon ---- probably as a FOX commentator- if he isn't one already, that is. What the hell are you talking about? I referenced wikipedia for those who might not know what Operation Chaos was. Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 haha believe it or not IRDB is/was an Eric Cantor constituentyou know im starting to wonder what someone/anyone is gonna do about these public shootings.I mean god damn how many times are we supposed to look the other way?? Link to post Share on other sites
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