John Smith Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 To me the point of the "controversy" completely ignores his message and has shifted the conversation to the mode of delivery. That way if the method of delivery is delegitimizef, then the message is delegitimized. How often has the conversation been "yes he has the right to do that, but..." His right is not in disputed even to his detractors. Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted September 9, 2016 Author Share Posted September 9, 2016 The most revelatory part of it for me is how many white people I know who are living comfortably and didn't even want to think sincerely for one instant what he was trying to communicate. I feel like I've become an unlikely spokesperson for understanding white privilege. I really think it starts with getting folks off of the defensive. White people, like all people are shitty listeners when they feel attacked. It turns out they feel attacked when the football guy doesn't stand for the song about their country. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Brandon Marshall knelt last night during the Anthem. Supposedly all the Seahawks will, too, on Sunday. As a human white guy, I don't care one way or another who stands or who kneels, who places their hand over their heart, who participates in The Pledge, who removes their cap, etc. I also don't think refusing to participate in these actions is opening up any major dialogue to address any social issues. Link to post Share on other sites
Doug C Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 why does anyone care what a second string QB from a middling team does? As with the socks, it is not like Kapernick wore them to a press conference, or on the field during a game (it was practice). He did not mention them. The media is who made the socks a big deal not him. In the past, the NFL has fined players for training ground behavior and dress. The most revelatory part of it for me is how many white people I know who are living comfortably and didn't even want to think sincerely for one instant what he was trying to communicate. I feel like I've become an unlikely spokesperson for understanding white privilege. I really think it starts with getting folks off of the defensive. White people, like all people are shitty listeners when they feel attacked. It turns out they feel attacked when the football guy doesn't stand for the song about their country.I don't feel attacked by Kaepernick or any protests regarding institutional racism in law enforcement, I want it to end. I just disagree with calling law enforcement officers "pigs". Police officers are brutal racists is equal to blacks are violent criminals in it's bias and ignorance. That Kaepernick doesn't see the irony is laughable. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 I actually have more of a problem with people cheering way before the song ends.you wouldn't enjoy a Blackhawks anthem then. Link to post Share on other sites
Chez Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 It kind of begs the question why the Anthem is played before all sporting events from the high school through the professional level. I've got no problem with it, but it's odd that the ritual is linked to sporting events. They don't play the Anthem before court is called to order. it's not played before congress is convened or before POTUS delivers a speech. Why sports? Seriously. And what happens before every Blackhawks home game is far more disrespectful and unpatriotic than what Kapernick has chosen to do. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 And what happens before every Blackhawks home game is far more disrespectful and unpatriotic than what Kapernick has chosen to do.Says you. Gives me goosebumps, and I hate the Blackhawks (I love my country!) Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 It kind of begs the question why the Anthem is played before all sporting events from the high school through the professional level. My cursory research says that it has its origins in the 1918 World Series - first played during the 7th inning stretch. The crowd loved it, so the people in charge stuck with it. After a couple games of playing it during the 7th inning stretch, they started playing it at the beginning of the game. Eventually all teams started playing it at the beginning, but only for important games (opener, 4th of July, and World Series). Sometime during WWII, teams started playing it before EVERY game, and the tradition stuck, and started infiltrating other sports. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 It kind of begs the question why the Anthem is played before all sporting events from the high school through the professional level. I've got no problem with it, but it's odd that the ritual is linked to sporting events. They don't play the Anthem before court is called to order. it's not played before congress is convened or before POTUS delivers a speech. Why sports? Seriously. And what happens before every Blackhawks home game is far more disrespectful and unpatriotic than what Kapernick has chosen to do.Exactly. Why not before a play or a movie starts, too? Regardless, it's connected to pro sports events. I don't think NFL players were even on the field during the Anthem as long as 20 yrs (or so) ago.... Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 I also don't think refusing to participate in these actions is opening up any major dialogue to address any social issues. That's exactly it. I have no idea what Kaepernick's stances on any issues are. I just know that he knelt during the anthem, and the only discussions I've read are whether or not an athlete should kneel during an anthem. If that's the sort of dialogue he wanted to initiate, then kudos to him. Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted September 9, 2016 Author Share Posted September 9, 2016 Is that an indictment of his gesture, or the people having the dialog about it? Link to post Share on other sites
ditty Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 As Jeff would say, "sports ball", eyes rolling. People give sports, all of them, way too much attention. Most sports figures are way overpaid. There are too many important things in this world, to care about sports. Sports, the ultimate privilege. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 As Jeff would say, "sports ball", eyes rolling. People give sports, all of them, way too much attention. Most sports figures are way overpaid. There are too many important things in this world, to care about sports. Sports, the ultimate privilege.Same can be said for acting/actors, or music/musicians, yet people rarely do. While a lot of professional "sports figures" make a lot of money, it's hard to say if they are overpaid or not when there is a market and surplus to pay them..... Is Johnny Depp overpaid? Underpaid? Paid? How about the Wilco guys? Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Is that an indictment of his gesture, or the people having the dialog about it?Both? Any dialogue I've heard basically surrounds his "right" to kneel or not, not why he is kneeling. Likewise, Kapernick has said very little as to his motives other than vague references to ending racial oppression. Link to post Share on other sites
ditty Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Same can be said for acting/actors, or music/musicians, yet people rarely do. Yes, well, at least with actors and musicians, they aren't demanding tax taxpayer dollars to "stick around". Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Yes, well, at least with actors and musicians, they aren't demanding tax taxpayer dollars to "stick around". I'm pretty sure a lot of taxpayer dollars went into Carrot Top's facelifts and Iggy Pop's fake abs. Link to post Share on other sites
chisoxjtrain Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 And what happens before every Blackhawks home game is far more disrespectful and unpatriotic than what Kapernick has chosen to do. Cheering for the National Anthem is disrespectful? Just thinking about the last Blackhawks game I went to gives me chills. Link to post Share on other sites
ditty Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Same can be said for acting/actors, or music/musicians, yet people rarely do. While a lot of professional "sports figures" make a lot of money, it's hard to say if they are overpaid or not when there is a market and surplus to pay them..... Is Johnny Depp overpaid? Underpaid? Paid? How about the Wilco guys? Johnny Depp, yesWilco, getting there, Pritzker tickets were $95 with fees Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Johnny Depp, yesWilco, getting there, Pritzker tickets were $95 with feesIt's all relative, dude. I wonder if David Koch scoffs at how little money Depp makes.... Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Yes, well, at least with actors and musicians, they aren't demanding tax taxpayer dollars to "stick around". Athletes aren't either. That would be the owners. Nobody's fans of owners. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Is that an indictment of his gesture, or the people having the dialog about it?Neither nor. It's an indictment of him, for bring attention to nothing but his gesture. I have no problem with his gesture. His ability to do it and not get thrown in jail is what makes this country a great place to live in. Link to post Share on other sites
NoJ Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Iggy's abs aint fake. You take that back, right now! Link to post Share on other sites
Brock Landers Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Neither are the "sports figures" as you call them. It's the billionaire team owners doing that. Link to post Share on other sites
ditty Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 ha, hilarious to see people advocating for the overpaid privileged people. It doesn't matter if their are an owner or a athlete. Go watch your sports to distract you from the real world! Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 ha, hilarious to see people advocating for the overpaid privileged people. It doesn't matter if their are an owner or a athlete. Go watch your sports to distract you from the real world!Except that it isn't advocacy. Instead of the football game I could read a book to distract myself from the "real" world (J.K. Rowling is OVERPAID!), or listen to music (Wilco are OVERPAID!), or watch a movie (Johnny Depp is OVERPAID!). ..... Link to post Share on other sites
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