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Politics 2016 (election edition)


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great, mind me asking what state?

State of Denial.

 

HAHAHA!

Election Day really needs to be a national holiday.

Yes it does. Or at least, a Saturday (even though, obviously, plenty of people work on Saturdays). The day after the Super Bowl would be perfect, if it was possible to do it in Feb.

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State of Denial.

 

HAHAHA!

Yes it does. Or at least, a Saturday (even though, obviously, plenty of people work on Saturdays). The day after the Super Bowl would be perfect, if it was possible to do it in Feb.

Yup, one of the 5 stages of loss.

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I've got zero problem with people peacefully protesting. I just think it's kinda sour grapes. He didn't cheat his way to victory. He won. Sucks for those who despise him, but that's too bad. It appears many millennials, among other groups, chose to not vote. Perhaps, if they were THAT fearful of a Trump presidency, they shoulda got to the polls. In 4 years, they'll get the chance to vote Trump out.

 

You can't ignore these protests.  You can't just dismiss them as whining or complaining that it is sour grapes.  Donald Trump won the election, he did not cheat, by all accounts it was fair.  But do not forget Clinton will have won the popular vote.  More Americans who voted, voted for her over Trump.  The Trump Administration, has to acknowledge this, they have to understand this.  They do not have a mandate to do whatever they want.  

 

If there is a lesson to be learned here is do not just dismiss people who are angry.  Maybe find out why they are angry.  Maybe do something about that.  

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This afternoon, after work, I had a quick beer today at my local pub for the first time since the election - overheard two older guys talking next to me - they were talking about how they think Trump is the only one who can fix things and such....they then proceeded to say they both really liked Sanders and wish that he would have won the primary and believed that he would have beaten Trump (not sure I have the same opinion). These guys were both pushing 70s and were Bernie supporters, but I am gathering that they voted for Trump. Was going to ask them directly, perhaps I would have if I had another - but I wimped out.

 

(my town went pretty solidly Clinton)

 

Just finished watching Maddow's interview with Warren - it is a good one -- I think it's touches on what the above conversation was about.

People voted for Trump, in spite of his bigotry, but against the current political system. This goes back to article that Sir Stewart posted a while back. The three movie article.

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They do not have a mandate to do whatever they want. 

 

Trump can CHOOSE to be gracious and try to find middle ground. But he CAN do whatever he...and the Republican Congress...wants to do. He's gonna end up with 306 electoral votes, which isn't dominant, but pretty convincing.

 

Clinton DID win the popular vote by over 600K. Amazingly, she beat Trump by over 2.4 million votes in California. Take away LA County, and Clinton loses the popular vote by 500K. 

 

Take away Manhattan island and the Bronx and she loses the popular vote. (In Manhattan, the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn, Clinton won over 80% of the vote! In those 4 counties, she beat Trump by over 1.5 million votes!)

 

The popular vote is SOMETHING, but I think this year's election shows why the electoral system is a good one.

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One thing I learned about Trump from 60 Minutes last night is that he still has no answers to any questions asked of him. It's all innuendo and "just wait, you'll see" -like statements. What does he stand for? I have no idea.

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Trump can CHOOSE to be gracious and try to find middle ground. But he CAN do whatever he...and the Republican Congress...wants to do. He's gonna end up with 306 electoral votes, which isn't dominant, but pretty convincing.

 

Clinton DID win the popular vote by over 600K. Amazingly, she beat Trump by over 2.4 million votes in California. Take away LA County, and Clinton loses the popular vote by 500K. 

 

Take away Manhattan island and the Bronx and she loses the popular vote. (In Manhattan, the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn, Clinton won over 80% of the vote! In those 4 counties, she beat Trump by over 1.5 million votes!)

 

The popular vote is SOMETHING, but I think this year's election shows why the electoral system is a good one.

 

He certain can DO whatever HE wants.  But SHOULD he?  No matter how you SHAKE it.  A majority of PEOPLE did not vote FOR Trump.  A MAJORITY of the voting PUBLIC did not want Trump as their PRESIDENT.  

 

I am not refuting the claims he is president or the electoral college should be abolished or whatever.  I am saying when a large number of the population does not want you as president, that is something that you have to acknowledge.  Also it is important to note that majority of votes cast in the House and in the Senate were for Democrats.  http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/11/10/democrats-won-popular-vote-senate-too/93598998/.  So the Republicans have control of the Senate, Congress, and the office of President, but they did not get the majority of the votes cast in any of them.  This is through the way our system of government or through gerrymandering.  I am not for getting rid of the electoral college, or the two rep model of the senate.  But gerrymandering is something that is the biggest threat to our democracy.  

 

All I am saying is that the Republicans cannot go throwing around that they have a mandate and the majority of people elected them for their policies.  They simply did not.  They should understand that, they should respect that.  I am not saying it should be abortions, pot and free money for everyone.  But understand that the Republicans values are not necessarily those of the majority of Americans.  

 

Also SERIOUSLY, what is with the RANDOM capitalization?  Super ANNOYING to read.   

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He certain can DO whatever HE wants.  But SHOULD he?  No matter how you SHAKE it.  A majority of PEOPLE did not vote FOR Trump.  A MAJORITY of the voting PUBLIC did not want Trump as their PRESIDENT.  

 

I am not refuting the claims he is president or the electoral college should be abolished or whatever.  I am saying when a large number of the population does not want you as president, that is something that you have to acknowledge.  Also it is important to note that majority of votes cast in the House and in the Senate were for Democrats.  http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/11/10/democrats-won-popular-vote-senate-too/93598998/.  So the Republicans have control of the Senate, Congress, and the office of President, but they did not get the majority of the votes cast in any of them.  This is through the way our system of government or through gerrymandering.  I am not for getting rid of the electoral college, or the two rep model of the senate.  But gerrymandering is something that is the biggest threat to our democracy.  

 

All I am saying is that the Republicans cannot go throwing around that they have a mandate and the majority of people elected them for their policies.  They simply did not.  They should understand that, they should respect that.  I am not saying it should be abortions, pot and free money for everyone.  But understand that the Republicans values are not necessarily those of the majority of Americans.  

 

Also SERIOUSLY, what is with the RANDOM capitalization?  Super ANNOYING to read.   

 

You make fair points. But Trump has ZERO responsibility to try to please the left. It was a pretty dominant victory. 

 

One more thing. Clinton got around 5 million less votes than Obama. Where did all those voters go? I think it speaks to the fact that the excitement lever for her wasn't there. If she couldn't excite enough people in Florida and Ohio and Michigan and Pennsylvania, then she deserves to lose.

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I don't think a candidate can claim a dominant victory while losing the popular vote. 

 

 

Did I miss the memo that says you only truly win a Presidential election if you can win the electoral AND popular vote?

 

Okay, Trump's win WASN'T dominate. Let's call it "fairly convincing". Winning 30 of 50 states fits that's description I think.

 

Like ANY Presidential winner would....with a majority in both houses...Trump will do his best to please those who voted for him. He knows in 2 years the Congress could flip. To the victor goes the spoils.

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You make fair points. But Trump has ZERO responsibility to try to please the left. It was a pretty dominant victory. 

 

You absolutely cannot call a race where you get less votes (and still win) a dominant victory.  It is a victory, but not dominant, you kid yourself if you think it was.  Electoral college only matters when you get 270 reading any type of landslide or domination beyond that is really nothing.  http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/why-electoral-college-landslides-are-easier-to-win-than-popular-vote-ones/

 

Of course there is zero responsibility to placate the left, but as a matter of principal, shouldn't he?  The facts are a MAJORITY of AMERICAN VOTERS said they do not want the policies presented by the Republican party.  But they way they are going on is that they have this mandate to put forth these policies.  They don't.  We are an extremely divided nation, would not be better for the nation to at least acknowledge this simple fact?  

 

The republicans, through our current system won.  There is no getting around that.  But you can't just dismiss the fact that they did not get the most votes.  That even though they won they do not have the support of a MAJORITY of AMERICAN VOTERS.  They have two options really, 1) completely ignore the population that voted against them (a MAJORITY of AMERICAN VOTERS) or 2) Understand this is a divided country and shape their policies to help all Americans and bring this country together.  

 

I do not think the latter will happen, especially when you have a major adviser to the President of the United States write and believe things like this:  http://gizmodo.com/10-headlines-from-the-white-houses-new-chief-strategist-1788935071

 

And the Right is now wondering why people are protesting a Trump Presidency.  

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Quit saying "majority of american voters" Both candidates got about 25% from American Voters. 

 

Majority of votes? Yes. Majority of voters? No. Half the voters did not vote. 

 

That's a good point. We'll never know who'd actually win every 4 years if every eligible voter actually voted.

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Quit saying "majority of american voters" Both candidates got about 25% from American Voters. 

 

Majority of votes? Yes. Majority of voters? No. Half the voters did not vote. 

 

If you don't vote, you're not a voter.  Clinton got the majority of votes from the voters in this election.  That is a fact.  

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That's a good point. We'll never know who'd actually win every 4 years if every eligible voter actually voted.

 

Quit saying "majority of american voters" Both candidates got about 25% from American Voters. 

 

Majority of votes? Yes. Majority of voters? No. Half the voters did not vote. 

 

Actually it is the "majority of american voters" because it was those who voted.  It would be incorrect to say the "majority of eligible american voters".  Sadly we will never ever know what all eligible voters think because somehow not every single person thinks it is important to vote but I think this entire election cycle has proven that everyone who can, should vote. Perhaps if all eligible voters had gotten out during the primaries we would have been presented with two more relatable candidates. But the point is it is a fact that of all those who voted which is all that maters, the majority of voters voted for Hilary Clinton and that is an undeniable fact and anyone who says that not winning the popular vote constitutes a "dominant victory" seems out of tune with math and statistics.  I would say what constitutes a "dominant victory" would be winning both the popular vote AND the electoral college count but perhaps that is just my opinion. But that most certainly did not occur.

If you don't vote, you're not a voter.  Clinton got the majority of votes from the voters in this election.  That is a fact.  

 

Damn you beat me to it as i was writing my long winded version of the same thing.

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Quit saying "majority of american voters" Both candidates got about 25% from American Voters. 

 

Majority of votes? Yes. Majority of voters? No. Half the voters did not vote. 

 

No, I will not because it is a correct statement (but of course we are now arguing semantics, which is dumb).  The majority of Americans voters do not agree with the policies of the Republican party.  Those who did not vote do not get to be counted in this exercise and in IMHO they are worthless cowards.  

 

Why do we care about what the non-voters think anyway, they don't care to participate in this.  

 

Thanks to jff and replacements75 for jumping in as well.   

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I proposed something in a Facebook discussion, it is not meant to be inflammatory.  In fact it's the best way I can see to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.  Here goes:

 

The majority of Trump supporters are not racist, xenophobic, white power believers.  Those folks are in the minority.

The majority of Trump supporters simply wish he was not those things and would rather not think about it.

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