The Grateful Dead

[jw harding]

The Boston show has always been my favorite in that May 5th to May 9th Run

I think I got that one on tape first, so my personal fave as well, particularly due to the Terrapin. But overall an amazing show, with a unique setlist for that tour.

[jw harding]

So I attended the D/Co Wrigley Field shows this past Friday and Saturday eves...

 

I've never really liked any of the "sans garcians" arrangements.

 

I enjoyed "fare the well" because I'd never heard Trey play before and I just locked onto what he was doing (e.g., I'll never forget the Estimated into a monster jam that slowly and beautifully melted into....Built to Last).

 

Wrigley Field is a very cool venue especially when it isn't loaded with rabid Cubs fans. Indeed, the scene was profoundly friendly from a fan perspective (not surprising) but also from a security perspective. There was __loads__ of refer everywhere and literally inches from the plethora of security - and I didn't see anyone get hassled. Also, just the normal deadhead gait / swagger / dance walk / trance walk didn't get hassled by security the way I used to see it (used to get hassled myself) back in the late 80s). And, the venue was very cool itself.

 

Music wise, my group was sitting in the reserved floor section behind the general admission area. None of us could hear Oteil all that well, but when we did he was impressive. Also, his singing on China Doll and Comes a Time was very impressive. He has an amazing voice.

 

Weir sounded great for being 69(?). His voice seems strong and his rhythm present. It was hard to tell if his guitar playing was too much lead in form.

 

It was my first time really even hearing John Mayer. I was impressed with his guitar ability, but he has a ways to go with the grateful dead song / jam form. I think his highlight was the solo on China Doll. It was perfectly delicate and apexed beautifully. Overall, though, it was the jam songs where he sounded weakest. He did a great job in generating momentum but frequently apexed too early, or not enough, leaving very awkward transitions.

 

This brings me back to Weir and whether he was trying to take the lead too much. I really don't think that is what is going on with Dead/Co. I think the person taking the lead is Jerry's memory or Jerry's shadow or Jerry's interpretation of his songs. It just sounded like Mayer wasn't taking the reins and leading the band through the jams / songs, but rather he was trying to peak / apex when he was supposed to based on when Jerry did. I know that there is necessarily a certain structure to the songs, but it sounded like he was mimicking too much. It kind of led to Dead Cover Band sound at times. My issue with previous versions of the "sans garcians" is that weir and lesh took to much of the lead direction which was something they never did. That may be what's limiting Mayer - who knows. It just seems like something is lacking...

 

Yet, I had a great time with my group. We rented an airbnb one block from wrigley on addison...

 

I'd see them again for sure. It was a load of fun. It will be interesting to see if Mayer improves. Funny, most of the people i was with or spoke to thought the two shows were excellent - solely based on the set list.

 

After the first show we went and saw melvin seals and terrapin flyer - that was fun. We were supposed to go to Kimmock at 1:00 at Metro but I got falafel instead.

 

Before the second show Mr. Blotto played on the veranda - Mr. Blotto was fantastic. Bill Walton got up with htem and danced...

 

Also, during one of the shows I left my area to take a leak, and wandered past the cubs dugout...I looked both ways - saw no security - and darted down the stairs into the dugout and into the players area where i found a urinal...after I finished voiding there were two security guards who immediately escorted me from the dugout...I just over did the "deadhead walk" out of the dugout and that was that...

Listened to parts of the Blossom show from last week. Mayer does know all the licks, riffs, tricks, and can build up the energy, but it all seems kind of random, not really playing off the other band members, just shredding. Kind of fun, but as someone already said, empty calories.

[winterland121072]

Listened to parts of the Blossom show from last week. Mayer does know all the licks, riffs, tricks, and can build up the energy, but it all seems kind of random, not really playing off the other band members, just shredding. Kind of fun, but as someone already said, empty calories.

 

It is like he isn't (or doesn't have the ability) to listen to the band. Jerry had the uncanny ability to make the music sound like one instrument instead of Jerry's solo and the grateful dead behind him. Mayer certainly is not at that ability.

[calvino]

 

 

Wrigley Field is a very cool venue especially when it isn't loaded with rabid Cubs fans. Indeed, the scene was profoundly friendly from a fan perspective (not surprising) but also from a security perspective. There was __loads__ of refer everywhere and literally inches from the plethora of security - and I didn't see anyone get hassled. Also, just the normal deadhead gait / swagger / dance walk / trance walk didn't get hassled by security the way I used to see it (used to get hassled myself) back in the late 80s). And, the venue was very cool itself.

 

 

 

I was apprehensive seeing a show at Wrigley, mostly due to logistics - I agree the entire staff at Wrigley were great both nights. Very friendly.

[NoJ]

I know the Mr. Blotto brothers, their drummer too (if its still Bill).

[calvino]

I know the Mr. Blotto brothers, their drummer too (if its still Bill).

 

Actually I hung with some of your Northern crew on Friday. Nice time.

[jw harding]

It is like he isn't (or doesn't have the ability) to listen to the band. Jerry had the uncanny ability to make the music sound like one instrument instead of Jerry's solo and the grateful dead behind him. Mayer certainly is not at that ability.

Yup, either the Acid Tests and the 60's were a transformative experience in which the band learned to play telepathically, or we've been had. Dead and Co may or may not be good/enjoyable, they may play the same songs and feature some of the same members, but they are a far cry from the Grateful Dead. 

[calvino]

Since 95, when I go to a Dead related offshoot band  - I never think to compare it to the Grateful Dead. Of course it isn't the Grateful Dead - I don't expect nor want it to be the 'Grateful Dead' --- i have plenty of tapes to listen to for that.

[Lammycat]

Since 95, when I go to a Dead related offshoot band  - I never think to compare it to the Grateful Dead. Of course it isn't the Grateful Dead - I don't expect nor want it to be the 'Grateful Dead' --- i have plenty of tapes to listen to for that.

Same here, but almost always it inevitably kicks in at certain times. I can't control comparisons when I'm at a Dead & LLD show (only been to 2), in particular. I can't help it. Something like a JRAD show, though, I generally don't.

[winterland121072]

Since 95, when I go to a Dead related offshoot band  - I never think to compare it to the Grateful Dead. Of course it isn't the Grateful Dead - I don't expect nor want it to be the 'Grateful Dead' --- i have plenty of tapes to listen to for that.

 

I guess I technically agree, but when seeing a post jerry lineup live (and hearing the band mimic the jerry conceived solos) it is nearly impossible not to compare. If they were reformulating the music (the way the Grateful Dead did with most of their covers) it would be easier to avoid comparison. But, alas, the Dead / Co. is far from reformulation. Ideed, quite the contrary, it appears to me that their intent is to perform as the Grateful Dead.

 

Which, again, is fine with me. I enjoyed the music and had a blast and I'd go again. I was just trying to provide commentary on what I heard.

 

Hats off to the band, and hats off especially to Mayer. I was impressed with his abilities. I expected less and found more.

[winterland121072]

Regarding Lazy Lightning Supplication, I do like the songs individually and in combination.

 

But moreso, I like great versions of songs. For example, I generally am not a big Mexicali Blues fan but I'll always be happy to hear the 19 October 1974 version, or Blow Away (not a big fan) but am always up for the 07 July 1989 version.

 

18 July 1976 Lazy Supp is ephemeral....

[Shug]

I think the musical telepathy you guys are talking about comes mostly from time spent playing together, whether that is rehearsing or just playing lots and lots of shows.  I'm sure psychedelics give a unique flavor and intensity to the musical telepathy of a true rock ensemble, but plenty of bands that didn't do psychedelics or form and play in the 60s had/have it, too, Wilco being a prime example.  Fare The Well definitely did not have it and Dead and Co have a long way to go before they get it, if they ever do.  Probably the older guys lack the drive and energy to really make that happen. 

 

But its easy for me to hear the improvement in Dead and Co from their first shows to this past tour and I believe that is mostly from the growing experience of having played together more times.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I'm just thankful there hasn't yet been a Dark Star > Your Body Is A Wonderland.

[jw harding]

I think the musical telepathy you guys are talking about comes mostly from time spent playing together, whether that is rehearsing or just playing lots and lots of shows.  I'm sure psychedelics give a unique flavor and intensity to the musical telepathy of a true rock ensemble, but plenty of bands that didn't do psychedelics or form and play in the 60s had/have it, too, Wilco being a prime example.  Fare The Well definitely did not have it and Dead and Co have a long way to go before they get it, if they ever do.  Probably the older guys lack the drive and energy to really make that happen. 

 

But its easy for me to hear the improvement in Dead and Co from their first shows to this past tour and I believe that is mostly from the growing experience of having played together more times.

I'm referring to comments made by the band over the years, but in particular in both recent docs Long Strange Trip and The Other One, in which they specifically state they gained telepathic powers while playing high on acid. Either that happened and it contributed to the unique genius of the Dead, or its bs and Mayer can jump in and the magic is there too. I don't think it can be both. 

 

There are a lot of great bands that play well together that have or have not done psychedelics. Wilco is obviously a great band, but I can't speak to their ability at collective group improv. I'd imagine they'd be pretty good at it, probably not as good as the Dead. I guess I'm just calling bullshit on one thing or another that the Dead is pushing. 

[mountain bed]

I'm referring to comments made by the band over the years, but in particular in both recent docs Long Strange Trip and The Other One, in which they specifically state they gained telepathic powers while playing high on acid. Either that happened and it contributed to the unique genius of the Dead, or its bs and Mayer can jump in and the magic is there too. I don't think it can be both. 

 

There are a lot of great bands that play well together that have or have not done psychedelics. Wilco is obviously a great band, but I can't speak to their ability at collective group improv. I'd imagine they'd be pretty good at it, probably not as good as the Dead. I guess I'm just calling bullshit on one thing or another that the Dead is pushing. 

I would venture a guess that as far as the telepathy only really existed in the moment, while they were under the influence of psychedelics. Now, given the fact that they DID play while tripping hundreds of times there was probably some residue that stuck - especially between the three axe slingers. But rarely (if ever) did that group mind rear its head in the last 5 years.

 

As far as Wilco goes, yes they are one of the truly great bands of the last 20+ years but they most definitely do NOT do group improv. The solos might vary from show to show but that's about it. The Nels Cline Singers is an entirely different matter. That seems to be a very freewheeling outfit.

[Shug]

To me collective improv is just one facet of musical telepathy. Musical telepathy, to me, means a group of musicians locked in tight, knowing where the music as a whole and each individual's contribution is heading, even if it's because of rehearsal, lots of stage time, or made up on the spot. Even for the Dead I'd argue there was less collective improv than they are given credit for as much of the jamming themes were familiar ideas from rehearsal and shows. In 1968 they were rehearsing all day long almost everyday at the Potrero Theater. My point is that i think it was time playing together that was the main factor that gave them "telepathy" and for that to happen to Dead and co they'd have to spend many many hours rehearsing or playing a relentless touring schedule to even have a chance to get that good. Mayer is probably the most likely to have the energy and desire to hit it that hard and it's the old guys who most likely don't

[Vacant Horizon]

I guess I technically agree, but when seeing a post jerry lineup live (and hearing the band mimic the jerry conceived solos) it is nearly impossible not to compare. If they were reformulating the music (the way the Grateful Dead did with most of their covers) it would be easier to avoid comparison. But, alas, the Dead / Co. is far from reformulation. Ideed, quite the contrary, it appears to me that their intent is to perform as the Grateful Dead.

 

Which, again, is fine with me. I enjoyed the music and had a blast and I'd go again. I was just trying to provide commentary on what I heard.

 

Hats off to the band, and hats off especially to Mayer. I was impressed with his abilities. I expected less and found more.

 

Interesting points. I've never really thought about the post-jerry stuff that way. I will agree, all the incarnations have lacked any sort of group formation. Especially the Other Ones and the Dead. It was always about pulling in whatever guitar player as a guest and never forming a real group. Phil kind of got there with PLQ and I guess, to some extent, Ratdog. As the core 4, no. Not really sure what to call Furthur...The Dead Tribute to the Dead? Bob has said that he wanted D/Co to pick up where the actual GD left off. Not sure if that has been the case. 

 

To your main point @Winterland, there really hasn't been any solid group formation with all of the members since the loss of Garcia. I would've loved to have seen a fairly headstrong guitarist join the band and take some leadership role as well has writing and recording original material. A real continuation of the band. It would've been cool to see that and motivating to keep up with. I'm not sure who that guitarist could have been. Someone who fit, but wasn't a clone. And, over the years this band would've come to some group cohesiveness. One can dream.

 

FWIW, anyone listen to that XM show called Tales from the Dead or something? Heads just calling in talking about 'whatever' with David Gans. Love that shit. Our favorite Brit was on there yesterday.

[jw harding]

To me collective improv is just one facet of musical telepathy. Musical telepathy, to me, means a group of musicians locked in tight, knowing where the music as a whole and each individual's contribution is heading, even if it's because of rehearsal, lots of stage time, or made up on the spot. Even for the Dead I'd argue there was less collective improv than they are given credit for as much of the jamming themes were familiar ideas from rehearsal and shows. In 1968 they were rehearsing all day long almost everyday at the Potrero Theater. My point is that i think it was time playing together that was the main factor that gave them "telepathy" and for that to happen to Dead and co they'd have to spend many many hours rehearsing or playing a relentless touring schedule to even have a chance to get that good. Mayer is probably the most likely to have the energy and desire to hit it that hard and it's the old guys who most likely don't

We're talking about different things. Sounds like you haven't seen the movies and don't know what I'm talking about. I don't think you need to practice for transcendence or loss of individual consciousness. 

[Shug]

Well I did watch the film and I've read the interviews with the band where they say psychedelics gave them a certain foundation of an approach to playing together. I don't recall them saying it was psychedelics that exclusively were responsible for their musical telepathy although I'm sure it helped. Same goes for being open and ego-less enough to become part of the group mind. It's hard to know what any other person is thinking and there may well be evidence that Mayer does not have the mindset to get into that consciousness but there have been a lot of things he has said that suggest that he does have the mindset for it. But it's not just up to him, the other guys have to be there too

[Winston Legthigh]

[Lammycat]

When I saw the setlist for this show last week I wanted to hear this. I wasn't sure if there'd be lyrics or not. Still, nice take on it. A little heavy on Firero's flute, but really nice.

[Winston Legthigh]

When I saw the setlist for this show last week I wanted to hear this. I wasn't sure if there'd be lyrics or not. Still, nice take on it. A little heavy on Firero's flute, but really nice.

At one point during the flute solo, it sounds like someone's attempting a modem dial-up.

[calvino]

At one point during the flute solo, it sounds like someone's attempting a modem dial-up.

 

I think that's Merle doing that -- can't tell though. It does seem that Merle and Martin are dueling at bit. (it actually may be Martin playing through a wah-wah as I continue to listen to it)

[jw harding]

Listening to the last JGB release lately, 11/23/91. A lot of good stuff. One great thing about JGB, all amazing tunes, though smaller repertoire. Jerry's soloing towards the end of Shining Star reminds me of those 77 Comes a Time's, just peeling off flurries of notes, though not quite as extended. I think the crown jewel has to be Dixie Down. The Band's version is a contender for all time great songs. Jerry's version is so different, not better, but just as good. So soulful, spiritual, a hymn. I think you can learn more about the South from that tune than any history book can teach you. When the tune is over, you feel like you've been through the Civil War. The emotion just pours out of Jerry 's guitar. Then Melvin kicks in with that church organ, Jerry joins him with the rapid strumming, they bring it to a peak, and there you have it. It doesn't get any better than this, sports fans. Jerry Garcia brings it home every time. 

[Vacant Horizon]

Listening to the last JGB release lately, 11/23/91. A lot of good stuff. One great thing about JGB, all amazing tunes, though smaller repertoire. Jerry's soloing towards the end of Shining Star reminds me of those 77 Comes a Time's, just peeling off flurries of notes, though not quite as extended. I think the crown jewel has to be Dixie Down. The Band's version is a contender for all time great songs. Jerry's version is so different, not better, but just as good. So soulful, spiritual, a hymn. I think you can learn more about the South from that tune than any history book can teach you. When the tune is over, you feel like you've been through the Civil War. The emotion just pours out of Jerry 's guitar. Then Melvin kicks in with that church organ, Jerry joins him with the rapid strumming, they bring it to a peak, and there you have it. It doesn't get any better than this, sports fans. Jerry Garcia brings it home every time. 

 

I agree man. Pure Garcia with JGB. Lucky to see them a few times. It was such a classy set up too. He could play those covers as his own.