learnhowtosteer

Summerteeth is more Beach Boys than Beatles. SBS and W(TA) are both pretty Beatley.

isn't 'learn a rooster' a loose fur song? just kidding.

I love the 1999 live performances of this song I have in my collection.

 

Also wanted to say that I always read your screen name, "learnarooster"

i heard that song--"we're just friends"--live in 1999 in NYC. it was awesome. jeff just sang without playing guitar, and it was super-powerful. a cherished wilco memory . . .

Handshake Drugs, probably.

 

Poor Places -> Spiders

I Am Trying to Break Your Heart

Via Chicago

Misunderstood

 

Typical choices, all. One I've never heard live (I don't think), but would love to hear: "We're Just Friends."

I can't say I see any balls near any walls when I listen to "One Wing." To me, it starts out as u2 and ends as U2.

Oh, I don't know . . . I think there are some balls in that song and they do begin to approach the wall toward the end.

And, btw, while on the subject of Lynyrd Skynyrd, dare I say that "One Wing," in its progression from ballad to balls-to-the-wall rock bears more than a passing resemblance to "Free Bird"? I'm just sayin' . . .

It's interesting that people are citing the feel of SBS as a good thing. I'm much more a fan of Wilco's studio creations than their guitar jams. The two things that original attracted me to Wilco was the studio brilliance of Jay Bennett and the lyrical genius of Jeff Tweedy.

 

I wasn't a fan of A Ghost is Born for a while, but eventually took to it. Sky Blue Sky to me is the epitome of what I don't want from a Wilco album. "You Are My Face", for exampel, is sub-Cat Stevens soft rock that degenerates into a sub-Lynyrd Skynyrd boogie jam, devoid of any interesting instrumentation. It's pretty gray and bland to me.

 

Wilco The Album is full of interesting instrumental choices, and maybe it is too similar to past Wilco albums, but I think it's a much more intelligent album than Sky Blue Sky. It never degenerates into corny "Rawk" jams, which are a cheap stand in for actual composition. Wilco is at their best imo when they're writing great pop songs and subverting them with studio trickery. It's a long tradition that stretches back to The Beatles, and is a practice that does a lot more for me than mulleted Skynyrdesque jamming of "You Are My Face".

 

Neither album holds upto the best Wilco has to offer imo (Summerteeth, YHF), but of the two, Wilco (The Album) towers above Sky Blue Sky.

Fair enough, everyone has their own preferences and Wilco certainly has a diverse enough catalog to endear itself to listeners with a variety of tastes.

Although I would point out that the "mulleted Skynyrdesque" aspect of Wilco is an aspect of their music that has been around as long if not longer than the "subversive pop" quality that some of their material has. "Monday" is as rawk as they come-- it has more greasy stomp in it than "Gimme Three Steps."

Summerteeth and YHF are brilliant, no doubt, both of them are definitely high points in the band's body of work. But there is definitely some rock stomp on both of those records. I wouldn't dismiss "I'm the Man Who Loves You" or "ELT" as mulleted or Skynyrdesque. But they have plenty of plain old rawk energy.

All of which is to say that the more "rawk" aspects of Sky Blue Sky have as much of a precedent in the Wilco world as the more sonically adventurous stuff.

"One Wing" and "Everlasting" are perfect as is. Just because Nels Cline's in the band doesn't make it necessary to have 3-minute guitar freakouts a la "Impossible Germany." I much prefer the tighter structure of the W(TA) songs, but both approaches are valid; I like the fact that Wilco is unpredictable that way.

 

To me what hurts SBS by comparison are the lyrics, which mostly seem very generic to me. In W(TA) Jeff seems to have his mojo as a writer back; Deeper Down, Country Disappeared, I'll Fight and Sunny Feeling contain some of the most interesting and complex lyrics he's ever done. And some of the simpler songs, like W(TS) and You and I, are great pop lyrics as well.

I don't know . . . "Wilco will love you, baby"? That doesn't strike me as especially interesting or complex. I will grant you that some of the subject matter on W(TA) is more oblique. But that doesn't make it interesting.

"Impossible Germany, unlikely Japan"? "Side With the Seeds"? Hardly generic, I think.

It is the only song on the album to get a co-writing credit (Tweedy/Sansone).

Yeah, but I am talking about the performance, not the composition. Radio Cures is a Tweedy / Bennett song, I think. But it still comes off as very Jeff-focused.

I have come to the conclusion that "Deeper Down" is the best thing that this version of Wilco has recorded.

Deeper Down is cool, I will grant you that. But it really is just a Jeff Tweedy song with some cool atmospherics. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But it isn't what this group of musicians does best. For the cool, atmospheric, moodier Tweedy tunes, I'll take Radio Cures, or Reservations, or even Wishful Thinking before Deeper Down. It's like a different category of Wilco song to me. It's hardly a band performance.

Well, I think Sky Blue Sky is a much better SOUNDING album than W(TA). It has a much warmer, less compressed quality to it. You also get a feeling for the interaction between the members of the band, which is not there on W(TA). On W(TA), the musicians sound a tad disconnected from one another. And the best thing about this particular lineup of Wilco is the interaction between the musicians, particularly Glenn and Nels. For that reason, Sky Blue Sky is, I think, the best thing that THIS version of Wilco has recorded.

Which is not to say it's a perfect album or anything. I am not a fan of Leave Me Like You Found Me, and find Shake it Off a tad grating-- like a studio jam that is tight but never fully coalesced into a song.

But other than that, Sky Blue Sky has some really beautiful moments. W(TA) has moments that seem to approach the beauty and grace that these musicians are capable of-- but then the songs seem to pull back. One Wing and Everlasting Everything almost get to the point where they start soaring into the stratosphere, and then they end abruptly. What's up with that?

And by the way, Impossible Germany is a friggin' remarkable song. One of my most cherished Wilco memories is the first time I heard them play it live. (Lollapalooza, 2006)

The tune is about migraines I think. He talks about puking and being forcibly slowed down. His body being taken over by an alien force (company in my back, steady rush). That's my guess.

The Band-- "The Band"

Wilco and consensus generally don't go together. With the exception of Foxtrot (which it's safe to say, almost everyone loves) every album they've released over the past 10 years has people who hate and love it within the fanbase.

I can't think of any Wilco fan I know who doesn't also love "Being There." Maybe some Uncle Tupelo fans hate it. But not Wilco fans. For most hardcore Wilco folks "Being There"(moreso than A.M.) was what turned them on to the band. I can't think of any real Wilco fans who dislike "Being There."

 

How do you know Glenn's hubcaps didn't appear on W(TA)?

 

Glenn may have played his toothbrush for all I know . . . The thing is, most of the drums on W(TA) sound like . . . drums. Which isn't, in and of itself a bad thing. I love Glenn's playing on Sky Blue Sky--I think it complements Jeff's lyrics perfectly.

But there is something that is not quite congruent between the words and the music on W(TA). On Sky Blue Sky, you can tell that they are all really listening to each other, playing off of Jeff's words and each other's notes.

On W(TA) the music doesn't really illuminate Jeff's lyrics. At its worst, like on 'Country Disappeared,' everyone just sort of sounds like they are sleepwalking through their performances. Directness and simplicity is fine. But flat, disengaged performances are not. That's really not what I had come to expect from these guys.

yeah, but some still need to be floored by something like the beat that comes in at about the one minute mark of IATTBYH. But I think that is a once-in-a-lifetimer.

It's not just about being floored by something like that incredible opening in IATTBYH (though that is undeniably awesome). It's not about "complex percussion" either. If I want complex percussion, I'll listen to Neil Peart.

It's about sonic inventiveness. All the wacky sounds, the chimes, the beating on garbage cans, throwing instruments down a flight of stairs. That's what makes Kotche special, I think. And when that's not there, I think Jeff's songs suffer.

On the issue of lyrics vs. melody, I have to say, the wonderful thing about Wilco to me has always been the marriage between sonics and the lyrical imagery. Even Sky Blue Sky, which is more traditional, has gorgeous, rich, full sounds, which mesh perfectly with Jeff's words.

On W(TA), the sonics really aren't that great to my ears. They sound compressed and lifeless. The contributions of the instrumentalists don't enhance the track--they just sound like they are layered on top of the basics.

So, the result is that you don't have that great sonic/lyric meld that has existed on every album--until W(TA).

I think this is actually a very interesting song lyrically. The way the 60's girl band repetition transforms into something else entirely in subsequent verses. He manages to compress a phrase as complex as "You’ll wake with a start from a dream and know that I am gone" into the same melody that the "I'll gos" and "I'll fights" mapped to earlier in the song. It's a decent trick, not one I've seen lots of precedents for. This is far from a simple song.

I see your points, but what you are saying also underscores my point--he changes up the lyrics and keeps the SAME MELODY.

Whereas a younger, less lazy Wilco would have varied up the melody a little bit and made the song truly special. They were so brilliant at one point in their introduction of little melodic and sonic variances halfway through their songs. Whereas the W(TA)songs just plod along with little variation. All that happens to spice things up are random little licks from Nels Cline. And that is not a good use for a musician of Nels' brilliance.

Same goes for Kotche, by the way. The drums could have been way more interesting on W(TA).

I'll Fight might be a top 5 Wilco all-time tune.

Really? What is it about the tune that appeals to you? I find it really repetitive and also derivative of previous Tweedy melody lines, like "On and On and On."

"I'll Fight" is another tune that suffers from lack of melody. Just a one-note sledgehammer. Pretty painful. And this from the group that did "How to Fight Loneliness," which is in the same key and has a lot of musical similarity. Except "How to Fight Loneliness" has a much more discernible melody and the song actually takes you somewhere, instead of singing "I'll fight, I'll fight, I'll fight" over and over again.

I can take "you and I" much more than "you never know." I've decided that it would be douchey of me to get on a wilco board and trash one of their tunes, so I won't talk about how much I can't believe that they actually created and released "you never know." because that would be douchey.

Agreed. "You Never Know" sounds like ELO without the magnetism and charisma of Jeff Lynne.

The problem with W(TA) is not with the lyrics. It's with the melodies--or, more properly put, the lack of melody. Besides all of Jay Bennett's sonic trickery, I think Bennett more importantly gave Tweedy's melodies some shape. Without a strong songwriting collaborator, Jeff's melodies are lazy and formless. That, I think, is the problem with "Country Disappeared." It has no real melody. He's just kind of whispering.

And the thing is, melody is part of what made early Wilco so awesome--think "Reservations," "Candyfloss," "I'm Always in Love," "Shot in the Arm," "Outta Mind (Outta Site)," "Misunderstood." All those songs have linear, beautiful melodies that really bring out Jeff's lyrics.

On AGIB and SBS, there is a whole lot less melody to Tweedy's songwriting, but some of that is made up for by the inventiveness of Jim O'Rourke's production (on AGIB) and Nels beautiful guitar playing (on SBS). On W(TA), the arrangements aren't nearly as nuanced as the previous two records. Nels wasn't even around when they did the basic tracks in New Zealand, and you can tell when you listen to the album that he just sort of came in at the end as an afterthought to add some lead lines here and there.

The album feels / sounds like it was assembled piecemeal, and the result is that it doesn't gel in a funky, organic way, as "Sky Blue Sky" did--and on top of that, there aren't any memorable melodies that stick with you either. That, I think, is why so many people are commenting that they haven't been able to listen to the record multiple times--because there is nothing that absorbs the listener, so why would you want to listen to it again?

hmm. well, i don't think paul has made a good album in many many years (flowers in the dirt is alright - but nothing overly special - and that's where it ends as far as making goodish music is concerned). so when the general public discuss paul today, it's all about his public life. you'd be hard pressed to find anything cool or good about that. he's a figure of fun for marrying heather mills and turning up to the opening of a letter if he thinks it'll make him look cool. saying all this - i prefer paul in the beatles, and also prefer his solo career up until the mid to late 70s - eventhough plastic ono band wins out for favourite solo beatles album. if john lennon had not been shot the odds are he'd have died of some kind of drug abuse or other, gone shit like paul, or miracle or miracles had a few comebacks like bob dylan and still be capable of making good music - but the odds on the last one are pretty slim judging from the friends he hung around with when he was alive, and what yoko ono is like now.

you ought to check out 'chaos and creation in the backyard' from 2005. Nigel Godrich produced. it is beautiful stuff, not your usual sappy mccartney fare.

You answered your own question.

 

Also, try imagining any of those songs without Ringo or George.

Bottom line is, it took 4 to make The Beatles. NONE of them alone did anything even close to approaching what they did together. The closest we got to The Beatles from the various solo projects is:

George - All Things Must Pass

John - Imagine

Paul - Band on the Run

 

But even those amazing albums pale in comparison to even the weakest of The Beatles' offerings.

What about Ringo's 'Sentimental Journey'?

(1) 4/20/1999, Irving Plaza, New York-- Tweedy, Bennett, Stirratt, Bach and Coomer

(2) 11/9/1999, Beacon Theater, New York (opening for Richard Thompson)-- Tweedy, Bennett, Stirratt, Bach and Coomer

(3) 9/28/2001, Town Hall, New York-- Tweedy, Stirratt, Bach, Kotche

(4) 4/26/2002, Bowery Ballroom, New York-- Tweedy, Stirratt, Bach, Kotche (and Jorgensen off-stage?)--This was an INCREDIBLE show. Perhaps the best I've seen.

(5) August 6, 2006, Lollapalooza, Grant Park, Chicago-- Tweedy, Stirratt, Kotche, Jorgensen, Sansone, Kline

Nels' harmonized lead guitar lines are DIRECTLY lifted from My Sweet Lord. Very intentional, I would think. Otherwise, the song has a completely different melody, chord changes, etc.

Re: the production, I actually think it does sound pretty labored. Jeff's voice is double-tracked more than on recent albums. Nels' guitar often seems to swoop in out of nowhere--my understanding is that Nels wasn't in New Zealand, and you can actually HEAR that he wasn't there. His guitar sounds disembodied, like he's just on a different wavelength.

Overall, it seems like a situation where they kept tinkering because the basic tracks weren't up to snuff. I remember Jay Bennett once saying that Wilco recording sessions tend to transition "rather slyly" from demo sessions to actual album sessions. Maybe these should have stayed demos.