boo jim boo

my guess on final 3:

3. Via Chicago

2. Misunderstood

1. IATTBYH

 

- Lack of a rocking, grab you by the neck rock song

 

I feel like ELT serves that purpose as the straight-ahead rocker. What if they had put Student Loan Stereo on the album, would that have helped?

pretty accurate review by the washington post:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postrock/2009/07/wilco_live_last_night.html#more

I never do these, but...why not?

1. Summerteeth - Then again, some aren't. The masterpiece in my mind. Always in Love, to me, is their best song ever.

2. YHF - Similarly 'masterpiece-ish' but just in an area i don't love as much as harmonies-soaked ST.

3. BT - Just the potential and excitement oozing around this makes it a joy to listen to. THIS is the most 'fun' Wilco ever had, in my mind, on album. Had to go to a double album and was willing to take a cut in roylaties cuz they thought so highly of it? And I agree.

4. AGIB - Love the 'plastic ono band' reference earlier in this thread.

5. W(TA) - Though the metaphor doesn't work exactly, I think W(TA) is Wings. Very much just there. I can enjoy listening to it but there's no "oh man, I can't wait for THIS part" parts.

6. AM - Beats out SBS only as a historical document. I bought this after listening to ST/BT/Mermaid Ave back around 1999/2000, listened once or twice, that was enough.

7. SBS - Has some incredibly cringe-worthy songs (Hate it Here, Shake it Off in particular), only manages to be on this list at all because of Impossible Germany.

MA1 would go just after BT, MA2 after AGIB, if we're counting those.

Wow, what sad news. Rest in peace.

 

From a blog I check out (sorry if someone already posted this):

 

Tweedy/Bennett 11/20/96 - Toronto

http://ohmpark.com/

You know, that is a great show and really points out one of the best things that Jay brought to the band. On a couple of songs (can't remember which) after they're done playing, Jeff says, "That's the first time Jay's played this on piano" or banjo or whatever Jay happened to pick up. And you know what? It sounded great. Every song, it was a living breathing thing and each time they played it Jay would do SOMEthing different, and amazingly most of the time it really sounded great. And he made it seem so easy, which was really incredible. You saw it a couple times in IATTBYH where he'd be testing out a keyboard part or something and it sounded sick but you knew he just kinda sat down and pounded it out right then and there. And most of the times they didn't even use it! For a songwriter to have an asset like that in the band, its really hard to overestimate the benefit someone like that brings.

I don't think he's ever stopped writing on that level. The songs are just different now. Still great, but different, that's all.

OK, that's fair. Maybe what I should have said is songs of the same type as he did 10 years ago. good vs. bad is obviously an opinion but I think it's fair to say that the songs he writes now are definitely different from those he wrote a decade back.

I would say they lost their 'edge' somewhere in between the point where Jeff was a struggling musician in a tense band environment with a drug problem and mental illness and lots to prove, and the point where he was a wildly successful family man in a stable band with his emotions under control.

I mean, he grew up, and he's in a much healthier place in his life now, which is of course GREAT for him and I couldn't be happier for him. But yes, it does mean that his songwriting loses a bit of edge in terms of where he's coming from. It's just the way it is.

I'll always love everything from Being There through YHF, and I'll always check in to see what he's doing now, but to expect this man to write on the same level as the one 10 years ago is probably hoping for something that won't happen.

I would say lines like "I dreamed about killing you again last night and it felt alright to me" and "she begs me not to hit her" are pretty edgy. Whether it was because of tension or migraines or whatever, the Tweedy that wrote those lines was definitely coming from a different (and more interesting, in my opinion) place that the one who wrote a whole song listing house chores.

Hey, it's cool. You're obviously entitled to your opinions, I'm just trying to stick up for a guy who gets the short end of the stick on a lot of the posts here. I don't expect people to necessarily agree with my opinions, just wanna have a reasonable discussion about it. Agreed that the latest incarnation of Wilco is 'blistering' live - it's just the same blistering live show that they've been playing the last few years.

Again boo, sorry, I was just having some fun. That said, I'll stop bashing Jay when he moves on and stops harping about how important he was, what he did on what song and how he was as important to the band as Jeff. His contributions to the band during that period are respected and duly noted. And for the record the latest incarnation of Wilco is blistering live, not as sloppy and John has always been the second most important member of the band. Proof: he's still in the band.

Well look at his last several posts. They are all defending Jay. If he's not Jay, he's definitely someone that has a man-crush on him.

Nope. I'm not Jay. Thanks Mike for sticking up for me. I've been lurking on these boards for maybe 6 years or so, chiming in every once in awhile. I'm just tired of all the Jay-bashing. I mean, he was the 2nd-most important member of the band that was far and away my favorite from 98 till about 02. I think it's a real shame how he gets treated around here and, hey, slow time at work so I figured I'd stick up for him.

No man crush. Went and saw him play once back in 04 and it wasn't very good. He's just not a front man. Doesn't have the voice for it. The formula that worked was Jeff's songs and Jay's contributions. I just wish people would respect what he did, and stop trashing the guy who obviously went through a tough time.

To follow that thought, I just got a bootleg from the Being There era -- and there's no doubt that Jay's a great guitarist, but his solos sound like he's showing off. Now -- with Nels and Pat -- to me it sounds like each solo is part of a whole. What the two and sometimes three of them do complements the other. Jay's use of the wah-wah is great, but nothing gives me the chills like Impossible Germany, Handshake Drugs, and Spiders.

 

Not to beat a dead horse either

Handshake Drugs AND Spiders were written before Nels or Pat were in the band.

Yes, it's true, the band is technically better than they were in the last 90's/early 00's. And this incarnation of Wilco has been playing together for something like 5 years with only one batch of new songs, so they will be better at performing those songs a specific way and going through the intricacies of those songs. When Jay was in the band, they were at their most prolific (5 albums including the mermaid aves from 1996-2002). They were constantly evolving. They were constantly pushing themselves, trying new things. Seeing 2 shows a year apart were like seeing two totally different shows. They were exciting in that you didn't know what was going to happen, they were spontaneous, and the band was always trying new and different things.

Today? I mean, not really. YES, they are very good at playing the songs that they do. But for the first time I don't feel a need to go see the band every time they're in my area b/c I already know what the show is gonna be like. Really, there's nothing wrong with this- they're getting older, more comfortable, and they're playing HUGE shows, so why push the envelope if you don't have to? I won't argue with the point that they are fantastic at what they do and if someone has never seen them or is only vaguely familiar with them, by all means they should go see the show.

But to argue that this version of Wilco is somehow way better than the version that put out BT, ST, YHF? With the excitement and thought that went into all of those albums? With the spontaneity of the live shows and the evolution of the band, the constant learning and experimenting that you could see Tweedy and Bennett going through? I just can't agree with that.

ok - so maybe i should have said "unquestionably in my mind." but really, i remember going to the show at 930 club in september 2001 and just being crushed. my favorite band was struggling tremendously. the venue was half-full and they just weren't having any fun at all. they had no idea what to do with these songs because jay was so integral to them and Jeff was - at the time - just not at all a lead guitar player. It was the most depressing show of theirs I had ever seen.

1) Not a "better" question, but a completely different one. I don't think anyone would argue that Jay's contributions to the albums you listed were vital.

 

2) "The months after Jay left were unquestionably the worst months of Wilco." You couldn't be more wrong. In fact, many on this board consider that period the best, or at least their favorite. So, I would say it's questionable.

 

3) The personality comment: I really don't know what you're talking about there.

I think the piling on Jay that goes on around here is a little silly.

Here's a better question: What would have happened with Wilco if he had never JOINED the band? It can be argued that he was the architect of the 3 albums that showed the most growth in the band: Being There, Summerteeth, and YHF. Yes his relationship with Jeff fell apart put for 6/7 years before that he was unbelievably important. He helped transform Wilco from an alt-country also-ran (sorry, but AM really wasn't very good) to a diverse, experimental band. Jay played a huge part in that. I would argue that if Jay never JOINED Wilco, they wouldn't be a band today.

Wilco shows with Jay, in my mind, were much better than the ones without him. Ever since he left, Wilco has had a very "Jeff Tweedy and his Backing Band" feel to it. Wilco, to this day, suffers not having another personality onstage and in the studio to counteract Tweedy. The months after Jay left were unquestionably the worst months of Wilco. The shows were empty sound-wise, Jeff was not yet ready to play 'lead' guitar. Today the sound is more full and the players are better but the shows lack the spontaneity that they had with Jay. And I miss that.

It hurts me to say this, but Jeff has really lost his edge. No Jay(s)/Leroy/Ken = No one to keep Jeff honest. While their live set is tight and always fun, anyone else sensing this band songwriting prowess is going downhill (while their notiriety and acclaim has increased) ?

 

Just one man's opinion and I don't expect people to agree with me.

100% absolutely agree. so much of SBS seems like Jeff wrote about 40% of a song and then just let the band take it from there. So many lyrics are throwaway (e.g. ALL of Hate it Here or Walken). In the past when working with Jay, it seemed like even though Jay had a lot of input, Jeff really was involved from beginning to end and was really emotionally invested in each track. I just don't get that with SBS.

Really, my favorite tweedy songs of the past few years are probably Hey Chicken/The Ruling Class. He really has a vision for them and you can tell he works hard at them. I don't get that with SBS at all.

If anyone wants to have the same conversation they've had on this board 10,000 times, but on a different website, you might wanna check this out - Washington Post does a ranking of wilco albums on their rock blog:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/postrock/20...aking_wilc.html

The version of "I'm Always in Love" with the slower/alternate strumming (see: OuttaPrint (OuttaSite) and Complete Singles compilations). Probably my favorite Wilco-related piece of music.

This is definitely up there, and Please Tell My Brother is right next to it for me...

you're better off looking for some jay bennett solo shows or the shows that he did with burch - this was really 'his' tune and he played it often after leaving wilco.

Here's the thing with Summerteeth, which if i had to pick 1 wilco album as a desert island disc would be my choice: You could make the case that it holds the two best songs jeff has ever written - Via Chicago and Shot In The Arm (With the "something in my veins/bloodier than blood" being perhaps the greatest Wilco moment of all time - both live and on album). I would say that Always in Love and She's A Jar could be top 5 and top 10, respectively, in fact.

I'm speechless....that show may have been the best I've seen out of a dozen or so since 95.

Really? See, that surprises me. Because as great as the band is right now, and we can debate back and forth whether this is the best incarnation or not, I just can't ever put a show at a place like Merriweather on par with a show at a smaller venue like 930 club. I mean, I thought the show was great last night, dont get me wrong, but having that intimacy factor is just huge - at least for me - when it comes to concerts. If I had to pick a "favorite wilco show" - and I've seen them probably 15 times or so - I would hands-down pick shows at places like 930 or Recher Theatre before I would pick shows at Merriweather, regardless of how the band played.