BobsRevenge

But you and I will be undefeated

By agreeing to disagree

No one wins but the theives

So I why side with anything?

That's how I hear it... and it makes more sense to me.

Also:

I will try to understand

Everything has it's plan

Either way

I'm gonna stay right here for you

I think they took out the "here" for the studio version.

Musicianship: Go look at The Last Waltz. Watch as some of the greatest artists of all time are humbled to be on the same stage. Watch as someone like Eric Clapton stands awestruck by Robbie Robertsons playing. Watch as 4 of 5 members take lead vocals and can be considered great front men in their own right.

 

Watch. Learn.

Clapton wasn't awestruck. Robertson had feeling behind his solo, but it wasn't technically impressive, especially when compared to Clapton's playing. But, yeah, I can agree that most were humbled including Clapton (Ron Wood, Ringo Starr, Neil Diamond, and Van Morrison seemed happy to be there, but I don't think humbled is the word for it). It wasn't because of their instrumental talent though. Like I said, instrumental talent isn't really that important. It is aptitude for making good music, it doesn't mean you can't make great music with a mediocre amount of it.

UHH. Wow.

UHHHHH. Okay. I get it. It's Bizarro Day, where everything is opposites!

Umm... Little Feat is still around. I see them on lists of bands playing festivals and things a lot and they still are releasing material. How is it suprising they are talked about more? If Little Feat ended at the same time as The Band it wouldn't be true (even though they kinda did for a while), but it is unfair to say The Band is talked about more than Little Feat is at this point in time.

It's just an interesting interpretation of reality. Keeping in mind that I love both The Band and Little Feat, my only explanation for Bob's take on things is that he's going out of his way to avoid any and all discussions about The Band whilst simultaneously rooting out every story he can find about Little Feat.

Where the hell did that come from? I've talked about The Band fairly in depth and barely mentioned Little Feat and have only elaborated because people keep going back to it. edit: sorry, I misunderstood what you said for a bit...

I already said that The Band was my favorite band for a while, so I don't see how you could say that.

edit: Little Feat began because Zappa wanted Lowell to leave and start his own band because he had ambition. That's what I remeber hearing at least. Might have to wikipedia that...

I don't think Beck works to his potential, he's super incredibly talented, but then he half-ass-es his albums to make shitty videos with his friends.

lol

I actually enjoyed watching The Information's DVD quite a bit. What can I say? It makes me laugh.

And I'm still not sure what your point is here. Little Feat may very well have been a more popular act when they and the Band were both active, but there's one group that people still talk about, and it's not Little Feat.

Umm... not really. Little Feat is still talked about and probably moreso than The Band. Then again, they are still around so that isn't a fair comparison.

i think without the mystique of the era they came from they match up pretty well.

Yeah, I think that's what I'm trying to get at.

I still don't understand what that has to do with the music they made. Lots of great artists are dicks. That has nothing at all to do with their talent or their musical legacy. You can argue that one artist is "cooler" than another, but what matters to me is the music they make, not their personality.

 

As to whether or not Robbie Robertson was a controlling bastard, that's been pretty well established. Jeff seems like a pretty good guy, but he has had his own documented interpersonal problems throughout his career. Either way, when I cue up a Band or Wilco album on my iPod, the personalities of the musicians involved don't even enter my head. Except maybe on The Last Waltz when you can tell Levon is REALLY pissed off while he's singing "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down," and that's only because I think it works for the song.

I guess my point there is that that is one of the reasons I find their music to be fake. This guy is a huge douche and took advantage of his bandmates. Personality does come across in music and Wilco is proof of that. The fact that Robbie Robertson did that kind of thing and then wrote lyrics like he did makes me feel like there was more pretentiousness and dishonesty to it than you would suspect just by hearing it. Wilco's music is absolutely honest and that is pretty much one of the main reasons they appeal to me. I lost that feeling with The Band, hence the antipathy.

I think the fact that you can actually hear the difference in music pre-Music From Big Pink/The Basement Tapes and post it, kind of shows that they will be more than a footnote. It's not about the people that heard it so much, as the musicians. And, not only can you hear a difference, but it actually improved it (unlike, say, Thriller) - so I think The Band have Wilco beat on that count. They might eventually have more quality albums than them (actually they already do), so they've got something on them I guess.

 

Anyway, . . . ah, forget it, what's the point

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

edit: sorry, I think I've entered my asshole mood.

I'm really not this much of a douchebag under normal circumstances!

Wow. Lots to discuss here. This is fun.

I'm not sure what Little Feat's popularity in the 70's has to do with the Band's impact today, but that's neither here nor there. A lot more people can tell you what Britney Spears sounds like than can tell you what Wilco sounds like. Does that mean that Wilco are irrelevant?

No, it means they are on the same level. And Little Feat was popular around the same time as The Band (its really only a difference of a few years and there was plenty of overlap).

Still, it's clear that there's been plenty of substance abuse within Wilco, which is also beside the point. You would be hard pressed to name a musical act from the 70's that did not have a substance abuse problem, but that's irrelevant also. Richard Manuel's drinking problem, Rick Danko's DWI/accident/etc, the fact that the guys used to steal food to get by, that they did piles of cocaine - all have nothing to do with the body of music that they produced during their run. I harp on the song "Jawbone" all the time, and I'm sure everyone's tired of it. The lyrics are nothing special, but they have their clever moments. The structure of the song is weird, lots of tempo changes, kind of jarring. But it MOVES me. All caps, bold, 48 point font. The vocals (especially), the musicianship, Robbie's guitar solo, it raises the hair on the back of my neck, gives me chills, goosebumps, the whole deal. I could give a fuck if they were huffing spray paint between takes. It's quality.

I really was never a huge fan of Jawbone for some reason... But I Shall Be Released raises the hair on the back of my neck every damn time. Then again, so does At Least That's What You Said to an even greater degree.

I've heard Jeff Tweedy isn't the easiest guy to be a bandmate with. Jay Bennett comes off as a huge douche in IATTBYH. I'm sure Nels can be a dick. Glenn, probably not. Completely irrelevant to the impact of the music they make on me.

Umm... Robbie Robertson is the only one in The Band that actually made royalties on their music. He made a deal with the record company behind the backs of his bandmantes and made sure he was named as the sole song-writer when most songs were collaborative efforts. I'm sure Tweedy has never been that much of an asshole.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the instrumental prowess of the individual members of the Band. However, disregarding their own (perceived) shortcomings, sometimes the parts are greater than the whole, sometimes you get more from the whole than it would seem you should from the contribution of the various parts. I'd go with the latter here.

I can agree with that.

Again, you're looking back on thirty years of bands that have been influenced by the Band's sound. Of course they don't sound as innovative. I'll agree with you on the albums, though. Wilco definitely has released more excellent complete albums. The Band sure did squeeze a lot of great stuff into those first two albums, and their later albums have some gems also.

Well, I get miffed when people say The Band was the first to start bringing back that kind of sound. The Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, Dylan, and quite a few others were doing it before The Band released Big Pink. Also, let's not forget that Wilco hasn't been around 30 years to make that comparison.

Edit: I really don't want to do all this quoting again... so if this continues I'd rather it not be in this format.

How old are you?? There is a reason even Wilco covers "I Shall Be Released".

 

LouieB

20.

I Shall Be Released is still one of my favorite songs and I adore the way Richard Manuel sings it. It's an absolutely beautiful song. Lets not forget it was written by Bob Dylan though.

You're right. Wilco is light years ahead of the Band when it comes to their stance on online music.

 

I think your assessment of the Band is colored by thirty years of hindsight, especially if you're going to base your assessment on their condition during the filming of The Last Waltz. If I was going to choose adjectives to describe the Band, "fake" is probably the last one that would come to mind. Sure they were drugged up at times, but Jeff didn't go to rehab for addiction to green beans.

 

The Band were among the best and most innovative acts of the last half century.

Well, that comment on their stance on online music isn't a direct comparison, it's just an example of something that Wilco has done that is important. The Band wasn't the first to try to bring back that sound. They added a bit more soul and cheese than the others doing it at the time did, but that's it. My Mom was a pretty big music fan when The Band was at their peak and she doesn't remember hearing any of their music yet she remembers Little Feat, and they weren't excessively popular. Garth's organ work is just straight up cheesy a lot of the time too. His sax work does get me off though. I've probably listened to The Band just as much as any of you guys because they were at one time my favorite band (5 years ago now I think) and I own most of their albums.

Jeff going to rehab for pain killers is a lot differant than heavy cocaine and alcohol abuse and comparing the two is absurd.

Plus from what I've read Robbie Robertson is a huge douchebag that fucked over the rest of the band and knowing that and watching him talk like he does on The Last Waltz can really get on my nerves. And they weren't really that instrumentally talented either (although granted, that isn't really that important, but it is a limiting factor). Garth Hudson was the only one with any sort of exceptional instrumental talent. Levon Helm, Robbie Robertson, Rick Danko, and Richard Manuel really weren't above average when it comes to instrumental talent. Robertson is a great lyracist and they've certainly got some varied vocal talents though.

I really don't see them as any better than Wilco on any level including innovation. Plus The Band only released 2 great albums and the rest were just downhill while Wilco's music is still improving (at least imo).

I think Beck and Radiohead are on the same level as Wilco and Spoon is like... a third of a notch below. I'm not sure why I think that, because Spoon is possibly the only band I listen to as much as Wilco, but they don't really seem to ever reach that next level completely.

I think you guys are overrating The Band a little. Wilco is easily one of the most popular bands without radio-play ever and they have a really progressive stance on online music stuff. Don't underestimate their impact. I used to be a huge fan of the band and still enjoy watching The Last Waltz quite a bit, but they've seemed kind of fake and drunk/drugged up to me lately. Watching the Last Waltz you can see it very easily. Richard Manuel is definitely one of the best rock vocalists ever though. Its too bad his voiced started getting messed up after the Brown Album, especially his falsetto.

Big Pink is already kind of a footnote. Who talks about it anymore? YHF will probably end up with just as much long term praise.

Here's what I'd like the set list to be like:

Off of...

AM: Passenger Side

BT: Kingpin, Forget the Flowers

ST: Shot in the Arm, Via Chicago, ELT, Summerteeth

YHF: Jesus Etc., Ashes of American Flags, IaTtBYH

AGiB: ALTWYS, Spiders, Company In My Back, Wishful Thinking

SBS: Hate it Here, Side With The Seeds, Impossible Germany, On and On and On

Covers: Comment

One think I think helps get to the "core" is listening to the album loudly on a nice, big set of speakers. This album really needs some air between you and the source, and the tom hits feel so much better with the extra force. I listened to it this way first, and I started listening to it on my headphones this morning and it doesn't sound as good, although I enjoy listening for the little details that you miss with speakers.

Agree, hellava flow beginning to end. yes, some songs stand out more than others

but I have done nothing more than play beginning through end.

 

I may never just cue up s select song on this album.

Yeah, this is probably the first album I've listened to where I rated every song a 5 after listening it through once. The album really appeals to me as a whole.

9

Would've been a ten if after What Light got quiet it came back with a mind-melting Nels solo.

Mind blowingly awesome.

Maybe I'm just in the perfect mood for it. I absolutely adore SBS after just the first listen.

The Decemberists

Spoon

Gomez maybe...

Black Rebel Motorcycle Club?

I love Glenn, but good lord

But you have to admit, Glenn looks a hell of a lot cooler when he plays.

Thanks for everything!

I didn't like it when I listened to their new songs on MySpace before the album came out, but when I actually listened to the album in full I loved it. The slower songs are awesome and a nice change of pace. I had actually gotten tired of Rubber Factory by the time Magic Potion came out so the change was definitely welcome.

It hardly took me any time at all to download.

I just started listening to it. This is the first podcast I've found worth downloading! ... although granted I never really looked...

WOOOOOOOOO

They start with the Via Chicago from Kicking Television. That gets me off.

I agree with you. I was slightly dissapointed too. I was also one of the few that liked where they were going with Frances The Mute.

I still like it a lot though. Less than De-Loused, and I think it will stay that way, but they haven't lost it.

I love how Alderete (the bassist) gets parts that are worth his talents on this album. He's mind blowing in some parts.

If you are going to be an ass.....at least spell his name right.

 

-Robert,

ehh, it made me laugh.

Psychology, history, and German textbooks.

All I have time for right now.