jbray

5 hours ago, coornelius said:

https://twitter.com/Wilco/status/1696503236490903983?s=20

This reminds me of the "Art of Almost" solo clip back in the day. It was really energizing for the hype train.

Whatever happened to Leroy?  Is he still involved with music is some capacity?

He produced the last two Ryley Walker albums, Golden Sings that Have Been Sung and Deafman Glance. You can hear it too. An underrated contributor to the Wilco sound of that era. 

My vantage point was such that I really only heard Jeff and a little of Glenn. It was certainly more stripped down than a proper "unplugged" rendition, and closer to a JT solo rendition. At least that's probably what most of the venue could hear, if they could hear anything at all. 

From the balcony, it was clear that the whole band was trying to contribute with Pat and Mikael kind of struggling (it's hard to describe). The amps were still on, just unmic'd. It was extreme due to the fact that their amps overpowered his voice quite a bit (think about how "Everyone Hides" take 1 sounded. They knew it and they were trying to accommodate. 

I was excited to see New Madrid in the setlist, hopefully that wasn't just a one off due to technical difficulties!  

It was completely unscheduled. As Knotgreen wrote, they cut out the encore ritual to compensate for the lost time. It was pretty clear that they did not plan to add an additional song and had improvised.

I’d say that “New Madrid” wasn’t solo then full band. All of the amps were on and the band was playing incredibly quietly as not to drown out Jeff’s voice. I could absolutely hear John’s bass following along and Glenn has his brushes out. The had just gotten Mikael a melodica when the system came back up.

Yeah, I've always felt that way. SBS often loses me halfway through "Leave Me Like You Found Me"...no pun intended. Walken is one I skip through more often than not. What Light is just okay, and On and On and On is just waiting for its more interesting rebirth as "I'll Fight." OTJ is their most cohesive since AGIB, though I will say the cohesiveness is also what I like best about Star Wars and Schmilco.

Different fans, different takes: "I'll Fight" is one of the most forgettable songs in the catalog and "On & On & On" is one of the best. Would never call them a sequence other than being about death. For one, "I'll Fight" contains nothing like the "we're going to try..." crescendo. I'm in a minority on this one because it seems to get requested and played at live shows, but I sure never want to hear it. 

I think the back half of SBS is definitely weaker than the front side but it's not dramatic. "Leave You Like You Found Me" is the culprit because it all but kills the engine. All of the other songs on the back half hold their own and work for the record. 

Judging by the revisionist history regarding SBS, that means folks should start coming around to SW in about 2028 and OTJ in 2031 or so...

I wouldn't be so sure. Back then, Wilco was still attracting new listeners with SBS (like myself) and I am not so sure that is true with each release. It is at least less new listeners. 

I'd be more surprised by a WtA reappraisal than a SW or OTJ one. 

So let's recap Wilco's career arc:

Twang>Noise>Waltz>Dirge

Show me the Wilco waltzes.

My most frustrating thing about this whole process has been people conflating Jeff's solo work and Wilco. I get it to a certain degree, but also, nobody looks at Thom Yorke like he's Radiohead and listeners surely don't conflate The Eraser, AMOK, Tomorrow's Modern Boxes, and Anima with Radiohead. The trajectory for Wilco is Sky Blue Sky, Wilco (The Album), The Whole Love, Star Wars, Schmilco, and Ode to Joy. So again: Show me the waltzes. Not that there are none, but I bet the ones you're thinking of are on Sukierae, Warm, and Warmer.  

It's a disappointing album. Boring would be my one word description. I get that I've been with the band since 1995, but why would anyone listen to this beyond a few listens instead of putting on Ghost, Yankee, BT or AM?? It's Jeff's worst vocal performance. There are very very few melodies and choruses which are always appreciated in my book (I love Warm and Warmer and they didn't have much in that regard either, but it is more missing here in a full band context.)

 

It's basically On Fillmore + Jeff Tweedy featuring 2 appearances by guitar virtuoso Nels Cline and textures by Mikael Jorgensen. No wonder Pat is pissed.

This isn't meant to be personal, but just a perspective: I would never put AM as an essential Wilco album. So if that's essential to you, I can see how this album wouldn't be exciting. 

The other thing I'm enjoying about it is there was a time years ago when I was discovering some of their great B-sides. Songs like 'More Like the Moon', 'Panthers', or 'The High Heat' felt like an image of the band that I wanted to explore more. Away from the bombast of an acclaimed rock band on a big stage, they sound more like an art-folk ensemble winding sounds in a carpeted room around some emotionally direct songs. That's where this album lands to me for the most part. 

Now that you've said this I cannot but hear "This is New" every time I listen to "Before Us". Good call!

I looked over their return policy.  It says open items are non-returnable.  I only knew it was warped because I opened it so I could listen to it.

 

All returns are at the expense of the buyer.

 

The warping, it could be argued, is the fault of USPS (since they delivered it in the morning rather than in late afternoon like they do every other day).  Or even my own fault for ordering a record in summertime knowing where it'd be left.  (Although I know from being an Amazon seller that a delivery is the seller's responsibility until the buyer has the item in their hands and is 100% satisfied, so that argument works in my favor.) 

 

In any case, I see a lot of ways for Kung Fu to refuse my return, and their own paperwork makes it look like they are very unaccommodating.

 

Their papers don't include a phone number of email address, unless I overlooked it, but if I can contact them, I'll hit them up for a new copy. 

Quite a few of us got warped copies of the orange Schmilco and we got them replaced or got black copies, myself included. The only way we found out was because we opened and played it. They'll need a picture and in some cases they need to see a destroyed copy. At least that was the case then. Give it a try.

It's interesting, as always, to contextualize the singles in a larger track list. Sequencing is one thing that Jeff is especially good at. I've always liked "Everyone Hides" but could understand some complaints that it feels a little light. That lightness bounces right out of the speakers after the heavy first 3rd of the album. It's like something shiny comes out of a dust storm. Great contrast.

 

Love is Everywhere also takes on some added life hearing it situated in the tracklist. 

Agreed. Kind of like how "War on War" jumps in after "Radio Cure". 

First spin impressions: half of the record abandons verse chorus verse chorus bridge verse chorus which was really nice because I've been frustrated with Jeff writing to the formula too much. It sounds like they actually cared about production on the record which in a large part if because they let Glenn do interesting work on the drums. I described it to my brothers as "Schmilco mixed with Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" because the noise doesn't sound thrown in like it did on Schmilco and even in the live set*. It sounds purposeful and thematic. Weird choice of singles as they do sound like singles, but do not really represent the record well. Kind of like "I'm A Wheel" representing A Ghost is Born. 

*I'm not always on board some of the noise tracks live such as "Muzzle of Bees" or "Via Chicago" because it seems like the new members of the band are making noise just to fill the space. There's a version of "War On War" with Leroy Bach live that slays the current lineup because he was clearly there to care about what they sounded like. It's for this reason that while "Pot Kettle Black" is my second favorite song, I never want to hear it live because all of the hyper-curated things I enjoy in the song are liquified and regurgitated poorly. 

Nothing Jeff has put out since tops Star Wars. Some of the gushing reviews over this album feel a bit like the emperor has no clothes. Maybe some people have a strong personal connection or reaction to this music, that for others falls kinda flat compared to the past records. 

I think the new record is pretty impressive on first listen and I also like Star Wars more than Summerteeth and Being There so take that as you will.

As for the Star Wars overlook in general, it seems like a matter of perspective. If a listener came in on Phase 1 (AM, BT, MA) or Phase 2 (ST, YHF, AGIB) Wilco, then it looks to this observer that many in that group slept on Phase 3 (SBS, WTA, TWL), and got off the train before Phase 4 (Sukierae, SW, SCH). That album was fun, lyrically interesting, brought a different musical style to Wilco, and was cohesive as an album which was something that The Whole Love lacked to a fault. "Random Name Generator" is a top single in the catalog and I count "Cold Slope/King of You", "Magnetized", and "Where Do I Begin" amongst my favorite Wilco. 

That said, if "Random Name Generator" is not your jam, Star Wars will never be your jam and that's totally cool. 

I agree that "Everyone Hides" is a lot like "Someone to Lose" and "RNG" etc. but the ending is terrific.

 

I'm looking forward to hearing the album. Based on the seven songs I heard in Antwerp last week, the drumming is really unusual and great.

Yeah, there's two ways to look at my assertion. The first is that it's interesting to see how they reconfigure that type of song to fit the record and the other is that they are writing a version of the same song over and over. I come from the perspective of the former as it helps me understand the vibe of each record. It's not like any song in that list is one to one a copy of the other, its more that certain elements connect them with others in that list be it tight drumming, a loopy guitar line, or whatever. 

Couple of tracks (White Wooden Cross, Hold Me Anyway, and We Were Lucky) are now on YouTube. Have to say, after a couple of listens to each, I was a little underwhelmed, but I'm coming around to the first two - We Were Lucky will take more time. Without a full listen, methinks Ode will be an album where you can't cherry pick tracks to enjoy on a whim. I think Ode, perhaps more than any other Wilco album, will be one you put on from beginning to end rather than saying "I'm really in the mood for X or Y song from Ode." Rather, I think the thought process will be "I'm really in the mood for Ode to Joy." My theory is this record will be heavily dependent on a full listening experience as well as on the sequencing and progression of the album from track to track - again, more than past Wilco records where it's easier to say I want to hear this song or that song right now. 

 

Hope that makes sense...my morning coffee is still kicking in...

I really like "We Were Lucky". It's disquieting and almost feels like a Tom Waits song circa Swordfishtrombones. Take that with the grain of salt that this is Jeff's voice not Tom's, but that guitar tone is straight up "Shore Leave" and the drums are approximate to "Underground". Maybe a much more successful realization of unease than "Common Sense". 

Having been at Solid Sound, this version of "White Wooden Cross" is way more interesting. In the live setting it came across as boring version of "Summer Noon" but the choices on the mix are kind of, well, weird. The echo/reverb on the piano which sound more like stabs here than they did live was unexpected. The vocal delivery is much more vulnerable. Plus, there are so many tiny pieces moving around in the background that get lost in the live wash. The piano arpeggios stood out, as did the actual background vocals that sound like they were only recorded with a room mic, as well as the guitars that sounded akin to "We Aren't The World (Safety Girl)" or just John Lennon's mid-70s output (like "#9 Dream") which is what I always associated that song with.

A few reviews from a quick search as of this morning:

 

http://www.riffmagazine.com/album-reviews/wilco-ode-to-joy

 

https://www.thelineofbestfit.com/reviews/albums/wilco-ode-to-joy-album-review

The Riff magazine review is hard to believe. He compares "Everyone Hides" and "White Wooden Cross" to "Jesus, Etc" which seems like a weak comparison at best. So, when the rest of the review is full of comparisons, It becomes hard to believe they are not as poor.

That said, someone of the Facebook group declared "Everyone Hides' the worst song to ever come out of Wilco and promptly sold their tickets for the upcoming tour. I think it was shocking to me because there is an "Everything Hides" on nearly every Wilco album:

"Summerteeth", "Kamera", "I'm A Wheel", "Just A Kid", "Sonny Feeling", "I Might", "Random Name Generator", and "Someone to Lose".

I felt like they had never listened to Wilco before if they didn't see this song coming. 

I Am Trying To Break Your Heart>

One Wing

I've missed this combo since they dropped it for >Art of Almost (not that that combo doesn't also work really well). Glad to see somebody got to hear it.

Three dates in St. Paul, 11/22, 11/23, 11/24. I should be in for all three.

Congrats TCP! I’m glad this came through for you. Boston got skipped on the Schmilco tour and that sucked. Granted, we get spoiled with Solid Sound, but, ya know.

I just got an email for “Everyone Hides”. The additions make it much more dynamic over the Tweedy version

Something of a tangent here, but I can't believe a second track from Ode hasn't been released yet. Not expecting the whole album to leak, but with the band hitting the road this week in Europe, I thought we'd have a second offering by now. 

It is weird that we haven't heard anything given that the tour starts so soon. I think it'll be anticlimactic if the second single is either "White Wooden Cross" or "An Empty Corner". Not that I am not looking forward to the master takes, but I am craving some new Wilco.  

Too Far Apart

Either Way

On & On & On

What Light

Captiol City

 

They played "Too Far Apart" in Hartford,CT back on The Whole Love tour, I would love to see it again. "Either Way" and "On & On & On" are great, although the latter seems a bit green due to lack of play. "Either Way" was one of the highlights of the Evening With tour in Boston. The whole audience takes over at one point, it was really communal. I can't even believe that you've missed "What Light" as that seems to me like a staple, I'd rather see the other Sky Blue Sky songs you've listed though. "Capitol City" was fun and they pulled off all the weirdness so that was pretty great.

I haven't attended a show since the Whole Love so I'll spare y'all my favs from the last two records. I'll make one exception. I think 'More' has all of the marks of a classic Wilco song. I don't know why it's fallen off of the setlists.

 

Also pretty sure I still haven't seen:

 

Kamera

Pot Kettle Black

Wishful Thinking

 

November can't come fast enough!

"Kamera" and "Wishful Thinking" are great live (so is "Camera" for that matter). "Pot Kettle Black" is my second favorite Wilco song of all time: cherish your memories. Don't hear it live. All of those tiny sounds and bits are kind of untranslatable to a 6 person outfit touring. The whole musical interlude being reduced to a guitarmony kills me. 

Sunloathe

 

Hey, somebody had to say it!

 

Honestly though, I've been luck to live in Chicago and see the band air out just about everything I could ever hope for, especially in the residencies, even deep cuts I've loved but would have never expected live like Panthers, Dark Neon and Message From Mid Bar.

 

Of the songs the band actually performs or has performed live (at least occasionally), the two I've never seen live but always wanted to are:

 

That's Not the Issue

More Like the Moon

 

More recently, I've never seen the half of Star Wars that got dropped from the sets after the initial run of playing the album straight through. I'd particularly like to have heard Taste the Ceiling and Magnetized. You Satellite seems like it'd be great live too.

I've been sad to see Star Wars fall out of the lineup as I like it better than Being There and Summerteeth (Sacrilege!). Most, if not all of the songs are great live.

There were some real interesting non-Ode to Joy tidbits in this interview:

-Wilco (The Album) was created to address an existential crisis that the band didn't have enough "rockers." 

-Nels really enjoys the quiet songs such as "Solitaire", "When the Roses Bloom Again", and "One By One." 

-He also loves "Kicking Television" because of course he does, he makes that song.

-Jeff pushes back against setlist diversity and lesser known tracks because it is emotionally difficult for him to watch the audience go to the bathroom. 

"I do not have the fortitude to endure that every night." 

I left town and technology behind right as this thread was getting interesting.

 

Coming back to Love is Everywhere, I think the song's real virtues are revealed with repeat listens. No, it's not a challenging piece of work, it's downright pleasant from the first listen, but I think it took 4 or 5 plays for me to realize it's actually great.

 

I don't think Ode to Joy is going to sound like any other Wilco record, least of all the last two. The interesting thing about that is in print a mostly folk record from Wilco seems at first glance to be a pretty ho-hum concept, but I think we're all going to be pleased.

I'm expecting this to be their most critically observed record since Sky Blue Sky. For example, the unbeloved Pitchfork. Now that they've been around for over a couple decades, it's easy to have a complete picture on their angle which is cultural cachet with a tilt towards trendsetting (and abandonment of such trends before they're done i.e. every 3rd, 4th, and sometimes 5th album by an artist or band they've previously championed). Ode to Joy is the first Wilco record since The Whole Love that Pitchfork decided to review a track for which implies that they believe the song and/or the album to have enough cultural cache to warrant such a review. They didn't even grant Warm a track review even when they gave it a "Best New Music". To me, this is a flag of expectation from them. Other review sites are also giving Ode to Joy some juice so it could be that they have access to more tracks or are anticipating what the album will be. 

Personally, I have a hunch that this record will be the crown jewel of the prolific era but will not be given that esteem till later down the road like how Revolver has become a peak Beatles' album amongst fans but was overshadowed at the time. I think fans are burned out of the acoustic songs and, as such, are not ready to hear another batch even if they are the top of the class. 

If they want to bring out "Solitaire", please! Absolutely one of the highlights of Wilco (The Album). 

I used the Autumn Defense as my primary due to them representing 2/6 contributors. I am being unfair to Nels, that's true. I often wonder if he feels there are only certain ingredients he can bring for Wilco songs. An observation that a friend said to me about the new single was that he didn't use "a single tremolo lick" which is something that is one of those small things that sounded great on SBS but became a style pattern that made other Wilco songs sound the same as SBS, especially Wilco (The Album). Does he feel that those are his skills that he can bring to the "Wilco sound" and not his full breadth? The new lick feels like a new piece of Nels that has been included and I'm here for it. 

I'm not sure how the writing dynamic is different than before to influence it. As in, I was never in the room so I will only ever be able to speculate. Glenn wasn't the first drummer on the YHF material, but he's also not the first drummer on demos now due to Jeff wanting to play with his son. If the pattern is, "Jeff writes a song, individuals or the band come in to parse it or add to it, a final recording is made," I'm not sure what else can be done other than to push Jeff out of his element. Jeff's songs right now play into that Autumn Defense vibe and not into jazz chord voicings or deconstructed percussion. I thought Glenn did a great job with Schmilco on songs like "Cry All Day", "Quarters", and "Just Say Goodbye" but they're also not "Deeper Down" or "Art of Almost". 

  Wilco incorporated some of that on YHF, but ever since then, he mostly plays Levoin Helm-esque drumbeats on the bulk of the material he's recorded with them.  

I get this and agree with it, but the pedant in me wants to point out that AGIB is also full of Glenn albeit differently than YHF. That is also still 2003/4 so your point holds. 

Clear!

 

A Ghost is Born is kinda a Jorgensen record, right? I guess O'Rourke too/mostly though. 'Unlikely Japan' is a great track that gives me an idea what you are looking for. Would be awesome. WilcoBook has more MJ stuff too?

Yeah, AGIB demos were the band working through musical concepts at SOMA where Jorgensen worked which in turn became pieces of the Wilco Book. The Wilco book is really incomplete but is exactly the ideas I want to see developed. "Unlikely Japan" is another great example of that and Mike's idea.  

From what I've heard of Ode to Joy (specifically "An Empty Corner" and "Beyond Us", there are these really delicate piano shapes and steel guitar that are creating this haunting soundscape tied with resonant drums. This type of soundbed work is what defines YHF and AGIB especially on the Wilco Book stuff. So that's why I'm excited.

Since I'm the one who stirred up this pot,  I don't care what tempo the songs are, or how hard they rock, but I want to hear Tweedy dig deeper into the extremely deep well of the band's potential than he did for Schmilco, and for most of the songs the current lineup has made.   

I think that's totally fair and probably desired by most, including myself. My other post a couple of pages back was trying to suggest that the well my not be that deep and is instead breezy 70s rock (The Autumn Defense) and sometimes noise for noise's sake (Nels Cline). In my heart, I want a Mikael Jorgensen led production because that could be off the wall. 

And for clarity's sake, my rockers/Star Wars comments were aimed at Coornelius and Chez plus those admittedly absent people over on Facebook who are using songs like "I'm a Wheel" to define what they feel Wilco is lacking, not really your critique Jff. I apologize for that confusion. I saw the term "recently" to mean Sukierae-Warmer so I pointed to SW. I think we got crossed because my initial post was both to address their point and yours. To clear up Nalafej's question: I am saying that all Wilco records are dry of rockers post ST (excepting SW which I felt was being overlooked) so blaming the current lineup doesn't feel valid (but Jff wasn't even talking about rockers so this part is moot) nor does saying that recent Wilco albums have lacked them when SW exists. I hope that clears it up?