boywiththorninside

You're kind of making my point for me. It was Bernie who said publicly he had to try out, not the Yankees. It could have been hush-hush. Seems the only thing you'd have been happy with is if they offered a spot which he didn't deserve.

 

And Bernie wasn't getting a guaranteed contract anywhere.

Bernie was asked how he felt about the contract situation, he responded.

I disagree that Bernie couldn't have gotten a contract somewhere. Perhaps he couldn't get the cash he wanted, but he could have gotten a deal.

I view the Bernie thing completely differently than you. That's fine. I can live with that. I, as well as some other Yankee fans I know, feel Bernie got a raw deal. It's just our opinion, but thanks for letting me know how dumb of an opinion it is. After all, what are message boards for?

That's some pretty serious history revision. It didn't go down like that at all. Bernie publicly said he wanted to play and never showed up. He wanted a contract.

Bernie - Sports Illustrated

Odd man out?

Williams gets camp invite but no guaranteed deal

Posted: Wednesday January 31, 2007

Bernie Williams' great Yankees career just might end with a soap opera he didn't bargain for.

SI.com has learned that the Yankees have made Williams a standing offer to come to spring training as a non-guaranteed, nonroster invite. While this wasn't anything close to what he was hoping or looking for, all indications are that he is considering the proposal.

Williams still could decide to retire, too. But the third option, which is to sign a better deal with another team, seems to be out of the question.

Though Williams could have gotten a guaranteed contract elsewhere, people close to him say he considers himself a Yankee and only a Yankee.

But right now he's still grappling with hurt feelings. He sits at home in Westchester County, his pride stinging. He recently told the Westchester Journal News, "When you give a large chunk of your life to a team, it is hard. It's not like I'm a journeyman.''

Williams knows that if he decides to return for what amounts to a tryout, through no fault of his own he becomes the story of spring, superseding returning hero Andy Pettitte, at least until Roger Clemens decides whether to rejoin them. But if Williams retires, he might have regrets about leaving too soon. He was productive last year (.281, 12, 61), maybe more so than the Yankees remember.

New York's current roster plan includes 12 pitchers, three first basemen (generously counting Jason Giambi as a first baseman) and no guaranteed deal for Williams. But don't count him out if he comes to camp. Manager Joe Torre always has been a Williams fan, and while Torre may have slightly diminishing clout, his voice should still count more than the detractors, who wonder how much Williams can contribute in a limited role.

The potential soap opera might have been avoided if only the Yankees continued to give Giambi time at first base. But alas, they have seen the light there. As a first baseman, Giambi makes a terrific DH.

The soap opera might also have been avoided had the Yankees felt that young Andy Phillips was ready to play first base full time. But Phillips had a disappointing first full season offensively, thus prompting the Yankees to sign Doug Mientkiewicz to platoon with him at first.

The Yankees' belief is that Mientkiewicz gives them better flexibility and glovework, and he probably does do that. But Mientkiewicz was terrible offensively as a Met, mediocre as a Royal and definitely is declining faster than Williams.

Mientkiewicz also is recalled as Boston's Ball Hog, who thought he had a right to the 2004 World Series ball simply because he hoarded it afterward. He also drew criticism for being overly talkative with the Mets, considering that he was the worst everyday player on the team. He ripped them as losers on his way to Kansas City (the Mets, incidentally, were on their way to the NLCS).

In what was a pretty good winter, one in which the Yankees improved their future and clubhouse, Mientkiewicz is their one hard-to-understand signing. It's difficult to believe Mientkiewicz is the one who stands in the way of Williams staying a Yankee. But for now, he is.

In any case, Mientkiewicz has a guaranteed contract, so the Yankees will feel obligated to carry him for half a year, at least. But Williams' presence in spring could force the Yankees either to drop Phillips or, more likely, go with only 11 pitchers.

Williams is great in the clubhouse and still pretty good on the field. If Williams takes the Yankees up on their offer, maybe they'd be too embarrassed to cut him. Or maybe they'd just start to remember what Williams still brings something to the team.

Bernie has never been a bench player and the feeling was the without being an everyday player he simply wouldn't be effective. They offered him the opportunity to prove he could do it, but he refused to come down. Torre he even said publicly he should come down because he wouldn't answer calls. During spring training it wasn't even clear they'd have a roster spot for another part time bat, as it turned out holes opened up that he'd have slotted nicely into but at that point the ship had sailed.

Again, my main problem is how this matter was largely handled through the press. If there's not that spot for him, tell him so privately. Don't let it be known that if he wants to audition, he can. Asking a guy like Bernie, publicly, to audition is insulting. It's enough of a blow to the guy that the team probably doesn't want him back. To tell the press that he's welcome to try out for the team is salt in the wound. This always rubbed me the wrong way. Bernie won a lot of games and hit a lot of post-season home-runs for that team.

How did they treat Bernie Williams like crap? The guy was no longer good at baseball, and he wanted to be paid as if he was. That's just silly. Why not keep that roster spot open for a better, younger player? That's not treating him like crap, that's trying to put together a winning team.

Bernie was done as a centerfielder, but he could have still been useful as a DH or simply off the bench. The guy's bat was still decent. He also wasn't making outrageous contract demands.

But, more importantly, I think publicly inviting him to audition for a spot at spring training after all he had done for that team was disrespectful. If there's not a spot for him, tell him so privately, but don't make it a public spectacle - which it was here in NY on talk radio, etc. It's not so much what they did - yes, he was an aging player - it was how they did it.

Is that silly for me to think Bernie deserves to be treated with respect?

Bernie hasn't been back to the stadium. Joe indicated today he wouldn't be back anytime soon. There's bitterness there from both of them because of how guys like Cashman and Levine handle things. Don't insult your legends/fan favorites. I guess they never learned anything from Yogi Berra avoiding the Stadium for years.

I'm watching Joe's press conference now and it's apparent how much the Yankees are going to miss this guy. It's been said so many times, but the guy is pure class. Funny too.

I'm so down on the Yankees organization right now. Would it have killed them to offer Joe two years? Last year they treat Bernie like crap, this year it's Joe. Deep down I don't, but there is a part of me that would like to see Mariano and Posada tell Cashman, Randy Levine and the young Steinbrenner's to go f-themselves and go sign with the Mets.

Oh, well. I guess all things, except the Rolling Stones and the Simpsons, must come to an end.

Does Dice-K pitch game 7?

(hope its not bad etiquette to resurrect this thread here when it's in JAF)

Terrible etiquette, MattZ. As punishment I want you to spend the next two hours reading Sasha Frere Jones' articles and reviews.

I like that Tweedy makes use of the alternate "Live 1975" lyrics. I also like the "Desire"-era violin accompaniment. Sounds great to me. As do the others.

A-Rod: player/manager

I could live with either Mattingly or Girardi. Girardi would probably be better, but Mattingly was my favorite player as a kid.

Bobby Valentine's name is being put out there too. Probably by Bobby Valentine.

I heard he's going to head the Arabian Horse Association.

...and when Giuliani is elected President he will be named head of FEMA.

EDIT: Torre turned down the offer.

Getting worked up over a Manny quote is like getting mad over an answer your Magic 8 Ball gives you.

True. I think that's why people aren't going that crazy about it - it's Manny. If Varitek or someone else said it, I might go crazy for a bit and I'm not even a Sox fan.

Joe Torre is coming back for a year, option for second year.

Manny does seem to have a rational and sane view of the world, and he is certainly able to put baseball in its proper perspective. However, nobody wants to hear this. There is nothing rational and sane about sports fandom. As a fan, I need to believe the players care to be able to care myself. I need that illusion. Manny's comment makes it sound as if he doesn't care, and completely destroys that illusion. That's the last thing fans who spend god knows what on tickets, who put up with the traffic to get to a stadium, who devote months to cheer for and follow a team, want to hear. Yes, in the grand scheme of things, it's not a big deal at all. Nonetheless, I can understand if people get pissed.

Sir Stew, if the Sox win three in a row (which is possible with Beckett going and then back to Boston), will you still be sick of baseball?

I hit the wall last week when someone suggested that Van Morrisson was underappreciated....

 

LouieB

I didn't start the thread, but I made that observation. I was born after his initial great run (Astral - Veedon) so maybe my perspective is skewed. All I know is I feel he has a body of work that stands comfortably alongside many of his contemporaries, and yet he doesn't seem to share the same acclaim. The kids today seem to love Dylan, the Beatles, the Who, the Stones, etc. Van Morrison? Not so much. I don't hear his name mentioned nearly as often. I'm not saying Van Morrison has wallowed in obscurity, I just feel, in comparison to others of similar accomplishment, he gets somewhat overlooked. I could be wrong. To me, he's underappreciated. You could have a completely different - and better - perspective. I can accept that. Forgive me for calling him underappreciated. Now can we never mention this again.

Sorry for hijacking the thread. Back to the topic at hand:

Jens Lekman - "Night Falls Over Kortedala." Check it out. It's not his best, but it's real good. Although, I will admit, it's not for everyone.

Did Pedroia pull an A-Rod last night and try to slap the ball out of someone's glove? I didn't see it, but people are calling up about it on Mike and the Mad Dog.

Frere-Jones sounds to me, like a music critic who'd prefer...that every band today imitate or build upon Mick Jagger

I'm sure I'd eventually get bored, but that doesn't sound half bad. In my perfect world, every band would have a hint of Jagger/Richards.

That's just the thing though......how can you debate the quality of a term that has no clear definition? I'd say indie has more elasticity as a term than punk ever did. The word everyone used in the 90's was alternative, alternative to what? And if indie is anything independent than your cousins unsigned zydeco band is the best thing to happen to indie.

Whenever this is discussed I always think of that famous quote from Justice Stewart about the difficulty of defining what is pornography: "I know it when I see it." That's how I feel about "indie" music. I couldn't give you a clear definition of what it is, but I know it when I hear it. To me, it's a sound (and unfortunately also often a look) and the independent or major label distinction has no relevance. I understand this way of thinking can be insulting to a certain ethos, but it's the way I've come to approach the "indie" question.

Looking at that list, I can see your point. There are definitely some albums on there that I forgot about and that I did enjoy (Justice, Panda Bear, Elliott Smith). Maybe that's also part of the problem for me - I get lost in the sheer volume of music that is available. Before I give one album the full attention that it deserves, I'm on to the next thing.

You win. 2007 was not as dire as I first made it out to be. Not my favorite year, but I do see there was quality stuff out there.

Now, back to the Kinks.

I'm not trying to be confrontational and I hate to be the guy who has to disagree, but what where the records released this year that you expect, or think deserve, to stand the test of time?

There have been records I've liked on first or second listen this year, but none have consistently kept my attention or demanded my repeated listening.

I'm not challenging anyone's opinion, I'm just looking for suggestions of records I should, maybe, reevaluate or give a second chance.

For me, 2007 was the year I was forced to rediscover "classic" rock. And that's not necessarily a complaint. I'm digging these old records.

Saying music is too white shows you don't know how it happened and where its coming from. It also shows you are stuck on an archaic socio-biological term that has since been scientifically discarded and is only relevant due to a societal perpetuation of a ridiculous myth. Sorry that's not music but read your freaking Anthropology people.

I don't mean to be Frere-Jones' defense attorney here, but the "too white" thing was my oversimplification of his thesis. Frere Jones never directly says that, and I was being somewhat facetious in my original post. I didn't mean to be offensive - I hope I wasn't - and I didn't mean to misrepresent what Frere-Jones has to say.

I tend to agree with your conclusion that great, original Amercian music is indebted to both black and white influences. Nonetheless, I'd encourage you to read the piece. You'll probably hate it - that seems to be the majority opinion - but don't avoid it simply because of my "too white" summation.

I want to post the new yorker article in its own thread just so I can call it I HATE SASHA FRERE JONES.

 

Ugh, what trash.

Wow. I really did not mind that article. Though I would like to go on record as saying that I don't believe the lyrics to YHF are "embarrassing poetry," as Frere Jones does. I love those lyrics and that album.

God I hate Sasha Frere Jones.

Like most people who write for the New Yorker, he's pretty hit or miss for me. I didn't mind this piece.

Another journalist, another critique of "indie" rock - it's too white and has lost rock's rhythm and soul roots. There is a Wilco mention on page 3. Interesting read.

New Yorker - "Indie" Rock: A Paler Shade of White

I also really liked the LCD Soundsystem and David Vandervelde records. And some of the new Wilco. The thing with the new stuff is that, for me, it doesn't endure. I'm over it really quickly. I mean, the new Radiohead has only been out a week and I haven't put it on in days. I liked it when I first listened to it, but nothing has compelled me to put it back on. A lot of new releases are like this for me. It's probably a personal thing and I shouldn't indict all new music, but this is a fairly recent occurrence. In the recent past I would listen to new releases as if they were old classics. I'd get into them and listen for days, weeks on end. Not anymore. Maybe it's my overreliance on the iPod and playlists, etc? Maybe the music is lacking? Who knows?