Golden Smoghead Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 OK so like all musicians I have a hard time not lusting over equipment I don't have / sounds I can't make with my current gear. But it's been about six months now, and I'm still Jonesing for a pedal steel. This is based purely on the fact that I love, love how pro pedal steel licks sound on my favorite songs. However, I don't know crap about playing one (have played slide guitar -- but who hasn't). I have messed with some dobro / lap steel and it is just not the same, frankly. Couple questions for the SST crowd... 1. anybody play one? do you have any advice for a novice? I mean any advice on anything, from learning to gigging to what level to buy in at (e.g. how quick would I outgrow the Carter student model that goes for half of what the others do)2. I don't think there are any instructors in my immediate area... I have self-taught on all other instruments (keys, acous / elec guitar, banjo) with no problems, but I find the idea of trying to teach myself an instrument that looks this complex pretty daunting. Is it going to be wicked hard? 3. the main thing killing me in my lust here is the price / availability of pedal steels. It is NOT CHEAP to get in on one, and this will basically cash in my chips with the wife for a couple of years, so no new amps etc for awhile. So as in question 1, is it worth it to buy a student model for $700 - $800 when I could outgrow it pretty quick? I DID see one being played at a show recently, but the guy complained to me that it didn't stay in tune very well. Seems like it may be better to go for one at the $1300-$1600 (used) price range that you can use for longer / life. I know these decisions are always personal at the end of the day, but am curious for input / advice. Or maybe just a link to a group along the lines of "expensive instrument purchasers anonymous." In any event, I find it a bummer that these beautiful-sounding instruments are so hard to get ahold of. Any input appreciated... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Ask Bob Dylan for one of his. He uses them as lyrics stands. Seriously, though, they are cool instruments. I would like one someday too, but I'm not sure how much use it would actually get. That said, good luck! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Golden Smoghead Posted August 17, 2008 Author Share Posted August 17, 2008 Interesting coincidence: just last night I asked Bucky Baxter to be my friend on myspace... I read in an interview that Bucky is the guy who taught Dylan to play pedal steel in the mid-90s. I actually only found that part out last night though, I am mainly a fan of his b/c of his work with the Dukes (Steve Earle's backing band in the 80s). And thanks for the wishes of luck, owl! BTW really dig your website. ... Back to my pedal steel dreamz, I have found this steel guitar forum a really great place to start when looking into a lot of this stuff. Just all the darn pictures of beautiful steels for the low, low price of $1200-$3200 make my credit card start burning in my pocket, heheh. But there's really a wealth of info, from the perspective of rabid pedal steel fans who have been playing for 60 years. That's definitely not a bad thing in most ways, but doesn't help me in my "am I really going to play this thing enough to justify spending 2 years' worth of disposable income on it?" question. Which is sort of my fundamental conundrum here. Again I realize I'm the one who has to live with the decision either way, just pitching it out there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rockinrob Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 I will quote this old redneck guy that I know "Those things are like flying a damn helicopter!". The PS is a very hard insturment. the better you know theory, the easier it will be to play. the better you are on lap steel the easier it will be to play. I would suggest that you become very good on lap, and then graduate to PS. This is what my friend that plays steel with me sometimes did. He got to where I could be playing a song, and he could sit down on lap and sound great without me telling him the chords or anything. Then he got a nice PS, and he sounded horrible for about a month. Sorta okay for about a month after that, and then he sounded great on PS. So basically, you can do it, it all depends on how bad you want it. Good Luck!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Golden Smoghead Posted August 19, 2008 Author Share Posted August 19, 2008 the better you are on lap steel the easier it will be to play. I would suggest that you become very good on lap, and then graduate to PS.I think I may do exactly this, thanks for the advice! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
junebug Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 I think I may do exactly this, thanks for the advice! I think that they are two completely different beasts.I play the dobro and lap steel. A few years ago I sprung for a beginner model pedal steel...very cool stuff. bought used from Bobbe at:http://www.steelguitar.net/I was able to "play" it a bit but with pedals and knee levers and more strings it was a whole different ballgame. I never had the time to devote to it and wound up selling it on craigslist. Cool instrument, but a completely different beast to a lap steel. I cannot stress that enough! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Golden Smoghead Posted August 23, 2008 Author Share Posted August 23, 2008 Why you got to break my heart, junebug?? I actually just got the lap steel today, I bought a supercheap one for $80. It sounds a zillion times better than I expected, actually. I played one of my guitars in an open dobro-type tuning for a long time, and didn't like the sound half as much as the C6 I put this lap in. I think I like how the two- and three-note chord frags sound through the amp / with more sustain. I didn't try lap for a long time because I didn't really get into that dobro... I think this will be good enough for what I'm doing at the moment. Personally I'm a big fan of the Bucky Baxter school of steel anyway, just subtle swells here and there, not too many runs burning up and down the neck. Trying to add in some flavor to recordings, not land a job playing professional or anything like that. So ... even if the lap isn't quite the same tone as pedals, it is actually looking to work out. Thanks again for all the advice here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigWheeledWagon Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Why you got to break my heart, junebug?? I actually just got the lap steel today, I bought a supercheap one for $80. It sounds a zillion times better than I expected, actually. I played one of my guitars in an open dobro-type tuning for a long time, and didn't like the sound half as much as the C6 I put this lap in. I think I like how the two- and three-note chord frags sound through the amp / with more sustain. I didn't try lap for a long time because I didn't really get into that dobro... I think this will be good enough for what I'm doing at the moment. Personally I'm a big fan of the Bucky Baxter school of steel anyway, just subtle swells here and there, not too many runs burning up and down the neck. Trying to add in some flavor to recordings, not land a job playing professional or anything like that. So ... even if the lap isn't quite the same tone as pedals, it is actually looking to work out. Thanks again for all the advice here. While the two are very different instruments, it will still be helpful to have learned the lap steel before advancing to the pedal. While the pedals and knee levers will certainly add a whole new level of difficulty, learning the basics of playing with the steel bar, muting/dampening strings, etc. will surely have you in a better position to learn the pedal steel than you otherwise would be. As for making due now, you can probably get a lot of the sounds you are looking for with the lap steel and a volume pedal, but there are just some aspects of the pedal steel that just can't be reproduced -- just think about some of the live situations where Nels tries to duplicate a pedal steel part with his lap steel. It sounds fine, but you wouldn't confuse it with the real thing. I wish I'd learned to play the thing -- so few people can play the pedal steel that even so-so players are practically guaranteed work. It's amazing how in demand and well-paid the session guys here in Nashville are, especially considering how relatively few modern songs, even in the country genre, use it anymore. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
junebug Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Why you got to break my heart, junebug?? I actually just got the lap steel today, I bought a supercheap one for $80. It sounds a zillion times better than I expected, actually. I played one of my guitars in an open dobro-type tuning for a long time, and didn't like the sound half as much as the C6 I put this lap in. I think I like how the two- and three-note chord frags sound through the amp / with more sustain. I didn't try lap for a long time because I didn't really get into that dobro... I think this will be good enough for what I'm doing at the moment. Personally I'm a big fan of the Bucky Baxter school of steel anyway, just subtle swells here and there, not too many runs burning up and down the neck. Trying to add in some flavor to recordings, not land a job playing professional or anything like that. So ... even if the lap isn't quite the same tone as pedals, it is actually looking to work out. Thanks again for all the advice here. Sorry!! If anything I would try a lap steel with more than 6 strings before you check out a pedal steel. For me the extra strings were the biggest difference. For some reason I am very thrown off by that. Just hate to see someone make the same mistake I did!! And actually, the lap steel is an awesome instrument!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Golden Smoghead Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 I probably would have gotten an 8-string but there is an $80 model of console lap that is 6-strings, the cheapest 8-string I saw was in the $250 range. I can see how the extra strings would be overwhelming, esp adding in the pedals and levers. Anyway here is what it sounds like... Definitely easing into it but I dig the sound. Kinda hissy b/c I couldn't figure out where the interference to my amp was coming from, tonight: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cf...;songID=6849639 You have to click "play hi-fi" That slide guitar on there is uber simplistic b/c I had actually never played one before last week. I find that knowing how to play instruments generally makes them sound better on recordings. By the way I am seriously struggling to find a good description online of how to grasp the tone bar, do you know the proper form? I'm using one of these Dunlap deals, and I know I am incorrect in gripping it from the tuners-side between my thumb and middle finger (with the thumb towards me holding one end and the middle or index finger on the round end): Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BreezyGrass Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I had a 1941 Gibson Electraharp - precursor to the Pedal Steel and it was unplayable. I sold it. Looking into lap steels though. Just got into Wilco bigtime and Nels' runs are tasty!!! Matty PS - Golden Smog Head when I clicked for the sample it blew my mind! Same name! www.myspace.com/breezygrasswww.myspace.com/mattylyons1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Golden Smoghead Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 Dude! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BreezyGrass Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Yeah! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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