jakobnicholas

I kind of like the idea of nominating 10 movies, but it risks making the Academy Awards seem like The People's Choice Awards 2.

Avatar and Blind Side are both decent entertainment, but I would never think of either as Oscar caliber.

I think "Up" is deserving of a nominee, regardless whether it's in the animated category or not.

Of the nominated movies I've actually seen, I'd vote for "Up in the Air."

I've had the disc for 2 weeks now and am very impressed. It's got a very cohesive sound and I think is very solid start to finish. It's hard for me to pick the weak links right now.

I finally saw Avatar.

Decent popcorn flick. Nothing more.

To me, it's somewhat frustarating to see a movie like Avatar that has a very cool premise, very amazing visuals and effects, and a director with a great eye for what looks good on the screen. Yet, ultimately, it just ends up being goofy or silly or over-serious.

I totally got into the main character with the injured legs and his budding relationship. And I liked the military guy character. And the scene where she takes him to get his flying creature was all good. So much to like.

But by the end I felt like it was just another silly expensive Hollywood blockbuster. And worse, it was so damned serious. At least with the Die Hard movies or Indiana Jones movies there's a sense of humor.

Of course, it got nominated today. I really hope it doesn't win.

We simply do not agree with the decisions that Jay made, and no amount of explanations will change the fact that we disagree with the decisions that he made.

 

I can understand that. Part of me wishes he'd just left and let Conan sink or swim.

But I'm not 60+ years old with no kids and no life other than telling jokes and being a host. Maybe Jay's not ready for his life to start winding down.

Conan's gonna be fine.

Stop writing your interpretation of posts so poorly. You have a beef with people who disapprove of the situation, but since it seems important to you, I would like you to extend the courtesy of putting some more thought into your word choice. I can't know you don't really think people "hate Jay's guts" unless you write as much.

 

 

 

I'm sorry if you think that watching a show on a regular basis is the only way I can express that I care about the show. On the occassions that I watched Conan, I enjoyed him; now I don't have the occassion to watch him anymore for reasons I find unfair.

 

 

 

I be slamming anyone I want, thank you.

 

And again, WHERE in that 96% number do you encounter ANY evidence of how much people know about the topic? You are throwing around hyperbolic assertions (see, "hate Jay's guts") that detract from the merit of your argument. A "number of people" from a "very small sample size" indicated with two or three seconds on tape that they did not know much. That is anecdotal, and in no way related to the very, very unscientific poll resulting in the 96% figure you continue to misuse.

I'm assuming that the audience at Oprah's show is similar to those who vote on her website. Bad assumption? Maybe.

Forget the freaking 96%. Based solely on her audience....of mostly very well-spoken women from 30-60 years old....her interview shed a lot of light on what happened and made them much less one-sided towards Conan. The consunsus of the audience seemed to be that NBC messed up in a BIG way in how they handled everything. Leno and Conan are just pawns in the game.

Slam who you want.

If you listen to everything Jay and Oprah say about this and believe them, then my guess is that people take advantage of you on a daily basis.

 

I don't need to listen to Jay, Conan or Oprah to know who is the bad guy in all of this (other than NBC). Look at how many people in showbusiness, particularly fellow comedians and peers that ripped Jay to shreds for this whole thing. Normally they would stay out of something like this, but they jumped on him in a heartbeat. These are people that know Jay well, and that is all I need to hear to have a sense of what went down.

I CAN"T WAIT to hear Conan's side of the story. Send me a memo when Conan reveals anything that contradicts Jay or Oprah.

Jay's got LOTS of friends in show business. I think Jay will survive without having Rosie O'Donnel or Jimmy Kimmel sitting on his couch.

 

E: Jay Leno is a spineless douche.

Oh yeah. Get in that dig at Leno. Feel better?

It's all so wierd to me. Everthing's so freaking personal.

Leno has become the George Bush of late night hosts. And Conan's riding the post-election wave of Obama.

I just find it funny that someone named Jakob Nicholas is talking in his manner on this subject.

I picture people on the board looking at him like a child "Jakob Nicholas don't say that! Jakob Nicholas put down that cookie!....1.........2.......don't let me get out my wikipedia quotes"

 

 

Sorry. It's a very nice name. It just made me laugh after reading all of these posts in this particular instance. Winston Legthigh doesn't even sound like a child's name.

Touche.

Your name would have been great like in 1983 or '84. You might change the "z" to "ed".

You really have zero interest in reading our posts, and a very keen interest in projecting what you want to think we said.

Stop taking every thing I say so literally. You have a beef with Jay Leno. And if you don't, it sure sounds like it.

That's cool. No big deal.

But I'm guessing you and others here hardly ever watched Conan and maybe never watched Leno. So it bothers me a bit that people like yourself can rant and rave about this topic when I don't feel you really care about either person.

And if you truly are bothered about this whole thing, you'd be slamming NBC and not taking sides. Conan got screwed. But part of it might be deserved based on his ratings and the fact NBC NEVER took The Tonight Show away from him. Leno got screwed too....twice.

I'm a LONG time Conan fan. The guy is very creative and his Late Night show might be my favorite ever. I also like Jay. I understand why people watch his show...before going to bed, many just want simple, lighter laughs and not too much cynicism or controversy.

The 96% number is interesting to me. It reflects, to me, how the media and critics and internet blogs can stir up a firestorm and make people think a certain way, even if they know nothing about the topic. The same thing happens in politics.

Oprah's audience is a VERY small sample size, but the online portion with her audience was very enlightening to me. A number of woman DID NOT KNOW much of the back-story to this. They mostly just knew that Conan was promised a show and then he was "unfairly" dropped 7 months later. What's "fair" in the business of TV.

I'm still pissed that Andy Richter's TV show got canceled. It was a great, great show. But sorry dude...nobody's watching it. See ya later.

Not to mention, your second paragraph doesn't mention a single number.

From Wikipedia:

On June 9, 2009, The Late Show had rated better than The Tonight Show with a 3.4 rating to 2.9 rating. It was the first time in over eight months that Letterman rated better than his NBC counterpart. Tonight would end up winning week two, however, with O'Brien garnering more than 850,000 viewers than The Late Show with David Letterman in the 18-49 demographic, plus more than 650,000 viewers in the 18-34 demographic and more than 550,000 in the 25–54 demographic.

The week of June 15-19, saw Letterman attract a larger audience than O'Brien, with The Tonight Show audience measuring as the smallest in the franchise's history, 3.3 million viewers, about two million fewer than Jay Leno's average as host. The following week, O'Brien's total viewership was even lower, averaging 2.8 million; among viewers 25-to-54, he tied with Letterman, the first time O'Brien failed to win that demographic since he had become host. However, the New York Times noted that the coverage of Jackson's death had placed Nightline ahead of both Letterman and O'Brien that week. By the week ending August 7, repeats of The Late Show were also beating O'Brien, albeit with the thinnest of margins—the repeats got a 2.1/6 household rating and 2.95 million total viewers, vs. The Tonight Show’s 2.0/5 rating and 2.94 million viewers; both were beaten that week by Nightline’s 3.25 million.

So people can only think Jay B. got a raw deal separating from Wilco if they listened to Wilco prior to 2002?

Huh?

My point is only that, based on what you read and hear in the media, Conan is a shining hero and Jay Leno is a mean, old, lying man who won't move aside for an upcoming, capable host. Oprah was trying to illuminate all the details because, based on the 96% number, she was convinved that everyone didn't know all the details of the story.

You all have the right to side with Conan and hate Jay's guts. But to blame Jay for a big part of this is just plain stupid. Sorry.

To me, if I put blame on this, I'd say:

NBC - 96%

Jay - 3% (Leno should have bailed 5 years ago when NBC "broke his heart" by telling him they wanted him to eventually leave The Tonight Show.)

Conan - 1% (O'Brien actually started the whole mess by threatening to leave NBC if it wasn't in NBC's plans to not ever put Conan on the Tonight Show)

Your entire post is based on your own assumptions about what my post meant. Those assumptions were incorrect.

 

As for the ratings argument, Conan's ratings were shitty largely because Leno's 10 PM ratings were shitty. His ratings prior to the beginning of Leno's 10 PM show were better.

Do you have numbers to back this up.

I remember Conan's ratings being fairly good his first month. Then they dropped dramatically. Conan's had all Summer, without Leno, to get good numbers.

Was there a statistical analysis segment of the show that I missed?

People that vote on Oprah.com surely shouldn't be expected as the best sample for what people think. But 96% is a staggering number. If a big group like that are SO one-sided in favor of Conan, it makes no sense that his ratings suffered so much.

If the love and respect and adoration for Conan was the same 3 months ago as it is now, NO WAY would Conan's ratings be so poor. I know a number of people who have recently said how bad they feel for Conan and what a raw deal he's getting. But they never watched his show.

Jay said over and over....it's a BUSINESS.

One last thing I got from the interview...

When NBC told Jay they'd like to keep him at the network by giving him 30 minutes at 11:30, Jay was excited because that means he and his staff could keep their gig, even though in a very shortened form.

But Jay wasn't so sure Conan would like the idea. NBC execs assured Jay that they'd give at least a 75% chance that Conan would keep The Tonight Show a half-hour later.

Oprah asked Jay why he didn't then call Conan to talk about it. Jay rightly said it was NBC's idea and offer and it wouldn't be right for him to talk about the offer to Conan before NBC did.

THEN, Conan quickly rejected it and put out his much-publicized statement how didn't want to tarnish The Tonight Show and he wasn't interested.

The cat's out of the bag then. It's over. Nothing Jay could say at that point would change Conan.

To me, I wish Conan would have called Jay before releasing his statement.

Personally....

I think Conan realized that his style of running a show wasn't meshing well with The Tonight Show, and he's very smart, and he realized that this is probably the perfect opportunity to get out and start fresh.

My opinion of Oprah is irrelevant. Oprah is not a journalist; her vested interest is ratings. Jay is not under oath; his vested interest is preserving (or recovering) his public image. Therefore, I have no reason to see the interview as anything but Oprah asking questions - however tough they might be - and Jay answering them with the goal of making himself look good.

I am SO puzzled.

Please tell me what you'd wished or hoped or expected Jay to say.

Also, yes, Oprah is interested in her ratings. Which is why she has an open invitation to have Conan. I hope and pray he shows up, 'cause I don't think Jay-haters are gonna get ONE kernel of evidence that Jay's the bad guy in this fiasco.

Jay was spinning furiously. I'm not sure what there is to "learn" from that.

I just don't understand this.

It's VERY clear to me now, and it's ALWAYS been clear to me, that Leno DID NOT want to leave The Tonight Show 5 years ago. Yes, he SHOULD have said "no deal" back then and gone to another network.

But I think Jay seriously was trying to be a good guy to the company and to Conan, and just thought, "what the heck....5 years is a long time and maybe NBC is right that I won't be #1 by then."

But then 5 years pass and he's STILL #1.....by a wide margin. So he thinks about taking his show elsewhere. Why shouldn't he? He loves what he does and the ratings suggest the country does as well.

You and others seem to suggest that it's THEN that Leno should have just bowed out of doing ANY show anywhere and give Conan his deserved shot at The Tonight Show.

But why should Jay be expected to do that when he's the one who said from day 1 that he didn't want to give up his show.

AND...it was NBC who made the decision to move Jay back to the 11:30 time slot for a half-hour show. They didn't want Jay to leave and they didn't like Conan's ratings.

Imagine if Jay told NBC "no deal" 5 years ago. Then Jay goes to ABC, as was rumored back then. Then Conan takes over the Tonight Show. Based on Conan's ratings the past 7 months (it was pointed out on Oprah that Conan's ratings were 49% lower than when Leno hosted...I don't care how lame the prime-time lineup is, that is a HUGE drop-off), I imagine Conan would have done AT LEAST as bad and probably worse. Jay would most likely have kept his audience at ABC and would continue being #1. The question would probably be who'd do better, Letterman or Conan. And one of those 2 probably wouldn't have a show by now.

The most interesting thing to me about Oprah's show is how it proved that many people supporting Conan don't watch his show. BUT...now that he's been treated unfairly, his popularity has soared and if he does go to Fox, I think his ratings will be HUGE for at least the first few weeks.

I still think it might be the best thing that could have happened to Conan.

So, it was like, really hard-hitting journalism then, right? I mean, she must have really gotten to the bottom of this!

 

It's Oprah.

I've never been an Oprah fan, though I hugely respect her. I've maybe seen 3 hours combined of her show in my lifetime.

But I thought she was pretty tough. She asked Jay multiple times why he didn't just walk away and if he felt like Conan deserved the job and if he felt bad for Conan. She even asked why he didn't do what Conan did...make a deal with NBC that would guarantee his staff severance pay for a couple years.

What questions would you have asked?

Oprah was very fair and asked tough questions. People can still have the opinion that Jay should have just walked away and let Conan have his turn, but I think many "Team Coco" people who watched this learned things they probably didn't know.

Oprah's website has 30+ minutes of Oprah taking questions from the audience. It was very interesting and supports what I've felt all along. Oprah had a poll on her website to have people vote on who they sided with, and a staggering 96% sided with Conan! Oprah was stunned and wanted to interview her friend to let people know what really went down the past 5 years. The audience clearly changed their opinion of Leno after the interview, even if they still felt like Conan got screwed.

And at least 3 women stood up to tell Oprah how much they feel bad for Conan and didn't like how Leno handled everything. Oprah then asked them if they watched Conan. They said no.

http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Oprah-Debates-the-Tonight-Show-Controversy-Video

And what about his staff? Do you think they will enjoy waiting around without working, until September? They're all stuck in L.A. now, waiting to see what happens - will they move back to N.Y. in September? Stay in L.A.?

Really.

His poor staff may have to sit on their asses, collecting thier paychecks for 8 months? They may have to move again.....probably all 100% paid for?

Those poor people. I hope they get through all this OK.

Man, what's up your butt?

Why are so many on this board so passionately disgusted about Conan not getting his "dream job"*.

I want to know how many Conan supporters on this thread actually watch Conan.

I watched probably 70% of his Late Night shows back in the days of early Triumph, Masturbating Bear, Andy's brilliant contributions and Amy Poehler as the hilarious bit actor. I've continued to watch when I can. Since his Tonight Show started, I've probably watched parts of 20% of his shows. I LOVE Conan. He's a unique, very creative funny guy. I like that he's mostly silly and goofy and juvenile. His comedy is unpredictable and dry many times....which I LOVE.

But I can deal with NBC's business decision. NBC made a business decision to retain Leno over the past 7 years. They like Leno. Leno gets ratings. Maybe Leno's jokes suck and his bits are lame. But NBC likes his ratings. Leno has a broader audience than Conan. That's a fact. That doesn't make Leno better. He's just got more appeal to viewers than Conan. Why does that bother people so much?

Poor Conan doesn't get to keep his "dream job"? Oh, please. Grow up people.

* Of course, Conan COULD have kept his "dream job", but he felt it beneath him to go on a half hour later. That's fine. I respect it in a way. But swallow the bitter pill for a few years, build your audience, and have your "dream job" in its dream time slot until your 60+, assuming your ratings improve.

Except for the part where he isn't the host of the Tonight Show (remember, that's the prize in all of this, not the $$), and his staff who relocated to do the Tonight Show (remember, that's the prizein all of this) are going to be doing something else.

My heart aches.

LENO TO HIS STAFF:

Good news. Though we won't be doing "The Jay Leno Show", we're gonna get a chance to do The Tonight Show again and hopefully we can all keep this going another 5+ years.

CONAN TO HIS STAFF:

Sorry guys. I was offered the chance to keep The Tonight Show and to keep us all employed, but just didn't feel like it was the right thing to do. Of course, it's partly our own fault, as we couldn't even top the ratings of an old, grumpy, cynical, intern-banging, tired, gap-toothed late night host who got destroyed the 10 years previous by another old guy.

Seriously, Conan and his staff will be FINE. I think Conan starting fresh on another network is the best thing for him and his comic sensibilities. Yeah, it sucks that so many families re-located, but I'm guessing nobody on his staff will have to take a side job at Best Buy.

Conan's popularity is SOARING. He's a freakin' cult hero right now.

I'm dead serious. This fiasco has turned out BRILLIANTLY for Conan. He should send NBC and Jay Leno royalty checks for the rest of his career.

Assuming Conan gets a show on Fox, I'm beginning to wonder...

Is there any downside to this NBC fiasco for Conan and his staff?

Originally, it seemed humiliating for Conan. But with Leno and NBC getting piled on by critics and media outlets and celebrities, Conan is smelling like a rose. His ratings took a pounding against Letterman, but nobody seems to care about that. People feel bad for Conan. People love Conan.....I'm convinced many young people who hardly ever watched him are now wearing Conan shirts and signing up on Team Coco sites.

Conan and his staff will get paid the same (or more). Conan, on Fox, won't feel like he has to keep his show reigned in a little bit to keep the typical Tonight Show audience. Fox is beating NBC, so promos should work better. Fox will hype the hell out of his show, and this blow-up with NBC gave Conan TONS of publicity and he'll surely garner gigantic ratings the first week of whatever his next show is.

Doesn't Jay say all the time how he still does stand up for basically free, just because he loves to do it? So even without a talk show, he's not leaving comedy.

Maybe it's like asking a recording artist to only do live shows, and not release any albums or songs to itunes. I'm sure Leno likes getting his comedy to millions of TV viewers nightly, rather than a few thousand select people at a comedy club.

And doing stand up wouldn't pay his loyal staff a pay check.

If Conan gets a show on Fox, TV viewers win. We'll get a most-likely edgier and normal and better Conan and those that like Leno can still check out The Tonight Show. And fans of dramas or reality shows (not me) will get more to choose from in prime time.

I watch some of both shows when I can.

What I find very interesting is that Conan is getting screwed, and it SEEMED like a very negative thing for him that he wouldn't be doing an 11:30-12:30 Tonight Show anymore, yet it's become the exact OPPOSITE. He's always had a huge cult following from his Late Night show. But now he's become this sympathetic figure that it seems everyone is siding with. I'm guessing a huge chunk of the new 40% viewers to his show hardly ever watched Conan nor gave a crap about his show.

But it's easy for many, especially younger people, to jump on the rich old guy who tells supposedly lame jokes (I'm really getting annoyed at this notion that Leno isn't funny anymore. Yes, maybe his STYLE is dated....he tells jokes the same way he did 20 years ago....but his jokes, in my opinion, are like they've always been.)

So poor ol' Conan's getting dumped on, yet I think this whole NBC, Jeff Zucker disaster is gonna end up giving a HUGE boost to Conan's career. If he goes to Fox with a show, all these new fans who've crawled out of the woodwork are gonna be stoked to watch it and will love being on the side of a hip, funny guy like Conan. With all the media and celebrities jumping on Conan's bandwagon, watching the Conan show is gonna be the cool, trendy thing to do. Conan's smart and will probably have running gags taking shots at NBC and/or Leno. Conan having a show on Fox, in my opinion, seems a much better fit than hosting The Tonight Show. When Conan's 90 years old and on his deathbed, he may look back and think how wonderful it was that Zucker botched everything and that Leno didn't want to leave TV in 2010.

I like Leno, and if he DOES in fact keep the Tonight Show, I think he'll continue to do very well. It will be interesting to see how the ratings shake out. I happen to think the big loser, at least in ratings, will be Letterman.

As for Kimmel, he was funny, but it came across a little punk-ish at times. Leno has a thick skin and 'gets' show business, which is why he invited Kimmel on his show. I'm sure Leno knew some of that was coming, but when Kimmel told Leno to just go away because he has 800 million dollars...well, that's just stupid. Leno doesn't have kids, and comedy IS his life. And he's been very successful. Why should he leave what he loves doing just to make Kimmel or Conan happy? I rather like that Leno will be around a little longer to push Kimmel and Conan and others to make their shows better.

I still cringe at Leno taking shots at this situation, because of his role. Obviously no one here know all the behind the scenes stuff, but from what we know, Leno decided to retire, and now changed his mind. NBC is more or less trying to appease him. So what does Leno have to complain about?

Leno might complain about agreeing to please NBC higher-ups and retire from The Tonight Show, despite being overwhelmingly the #1 late night show. THEN, instead of having a chance to try his gig elsewhere, he remains a company guy and agrees to have a show in prime time. THEN, despite his show's ratings being on par or better than expected, he's asked to stop the show after 4 months because some local affiliates complain. And Jay may now complain that he's become the villain in this mess, when all along he was trying to be accomodating to NBC and Conan.

When NBC came to Jay 5 or 6 years ago and told them their plan, he'd have been best to drop The Tonight Show on the spot and go over to ABC. He's likely to have continued his dominance over Letterman, and who knows how well Conan's show would be doing by now.

And everyone is giving kudos to Conan for having the integrity to not accept moving the prestigious Tonight Show back an hour. Maybe Conan should also be blamed for agreeing to do the show in the first place, knowing Leno was on an hour earlier. If he truly is concerned about the integrity of The Tonight Show, he should have put his foot down THEN, understanding that Leno would be doing a similar-type show.