jakobnicholas

Leno took some good shots at Conan last night, too, from what I understand.

Not really. Last night Leno explained how Conan wrote a letter that was critical of NBC for only giving him 7 months to establish himself. Leno then says, "Seven months! How did he get that deal? We only got four."

Conan's shot was a little harsher: "And I just want to say to the kids out there watching: You can do anything you want in life, unless Jay Leno wants to do it, too."

Conan's ratings are up 40% the past couple nights. If he holds on to the Tonight Show, this might be his Hugh Grant moment. Conan may really need to think twice about giving up the Tonight Show, no matter what time it starts.

fyi....Jay Leno has invited Kimmel to be on his "10 at 10" segment on Thursday...might be a little interesting.

Has anybody thought that perhaps Leno will turn down NBC's offer, and let Conan have the Tonight Show at its original time? Leno's become the villain...although VERY unfair in my opinion. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he bails on NBC.

Conan's letter....very well-written but also clearly created to rally sympathy and support for himself....leaves open the possibility that he'd stay at NBC if he keeps his 11:30-12:30 time.

Yes, Leno retired.....from the Tonight Show. But it was very reluctantly. NBC convinced Leno to give up his show after 5 years. At the time, 5 years probably seemed like a LONG time and Leno probably assumed he'd be ready to move on and that maybe his ratings would even suggest as much.

Well, 5 years later, Leno was still #1 and still kicking Letterman's ass in the ratings and for Leno, it must have seemed ABSURD that he'd have to give up his show, even though it was as popular as ever. Especially with a loyal staff in a bad economic time. So Leno surely toyed with the idea of trying his show on another network. Do you blame him?

HUGE MISTAKE #1 was NBC trying to keep Leno. They rightly knew that Leno on another network, competing against Conan, would NOT be good for NBC. And that's how they decided to give Leno his own show in prime time.

HUGE MISTAKE #2 is NBC caving in to local news affiliates. Maybe put Jay's monologue at the end of his show. Maybe trim Leno's show to just a half hour, but keep it in the 10:00-11:00 time slot.

I've said a bunch, I'll say it again. It's Jeff Zucker and other NBC decision makers' fault, NOT Leno's.

WHAT I HOPE HAPPENS:

- Leno bails.

- Conan keeps the Tonight Show.

- Leno gets to do his show on another network against Conan and Letterman.

- Leno remains #1.

- Grumpy old balls Letterman retires after a couple years of finishing 3rd.

- Conan continues to build a bigger audience and gains on Leno.

- Leno finally truly retires in 4 or 5 years, leaving Conan the king of late night.

(and might also explain why his show is so unfunny).

Huh. I've always found much of his show funny....the monolouge, headlines, Ross the intern, Fred Willard's bits, various comedians who do remotes for Jay, Jaywalking, his quips with the audience and guests...

Please tell me where the REAL funny is on late night.

I don't care about Leno one way or the other; while I find him to be unfunny, it's clear that many Americans do think he's funny. That being said, it doesn't matter whether he's pulling strings or not - he can just flippin' retire like he said he would, and everything would be fine. That's the part of this scenario that he has control of, that he refuses to exercise.

I'm no making crap up when I say Leno is concerned for his staff.

He may in fact retire from late night, but his staff thought they'd have a couple years. If Leno decides to pass on the half-hour show, he'll first make sure he gets a huge payout or lines up another show somewhere else.

You can laugh all you want, but it was a HUGE concern of Jay's to maintain a show for his employees.

The part you all gloss over is that Leno agreed to the earlier show because he was guaranteed 2 years, assuming his ratings were at a certain level. And they were. NBC will be stuck paying Leno his money, 'cause the Leno show did what it said it'd do.

I predict the job eventually goes to Conan.

Either Leno will concede it, or NBC will pay a butt-load to Leno. Leno probably despises NBC right now for its boneheaded-ness, so will do all he can to make sure they have to give him money.

Yeah, Conan's hipper and cooler. Heck, I like Conan a LOT. His Late Night show was incredibly awesome. His show seemed a little off for a long while on the Tonight Show, but lately seems to be finding it's groove. I'm good with Conan staying on the Tonight Show.

But I also understand why so many like Jay. His monologue doesn't pick sides and is quite good. And many like he's not grumpy like Letterman or forced-crazy like Conan can be at times. Jay seems more real to many late night watchers.

I'm surprised so many here are weighing in on this. I thought anything other than Colbert or Stewart was considered too low-brow.

Well, good for Conan. He retains his dignity. I'm not sure the same can be said for Leno, or NBC.

 

He's called NBC's bluff. I'll hold out some hope that the network relents and decides to jettison Leno altogether (which is what they should have done in the first place), but I don't think those people are that smart.

Stop dumping on Leno.

Crap on NBC. Unleash yuor fury on Jeff Zucker. All this mess isn't Leno's fault.

Leno was running the #1 show when, to not lose Conan, NBC had the brainstorm of keeping both. Leno was guaranteed 2 years of his new show. His new ratings lived up to expectations.

So what? Now Leno is supposed to can all his employees that he's been loyal to and probably only agreed to the earlier show so that all his wokers could have a job a few more years.

If NBC wants to pay Leno and his staff 2 years worth of pay, then I'd be totally cool with Conan getting what he wants.

Sounds like NBC will be forced to pick one, and pay a ton of money to the other. And Zucker should be fired.

Didn't Leno agree to leave, then bitch about it until NBC relented and gave him that coveted 10:00 spot? That's what I remember reading somewhere.

 

Either way, I feel bad for Conan. People seem to be forgetting that he moved his entire life across the country for this job. Ratings or not, it's fucked up to just take it back.

I remember it that 5+ years ago rumors were swirling that Conan may be interested in other networks or other networks were flirting with bringing him on. NBC didn't want to lose Conan, so they got with Jay and worked together to come up with an agreement that Leno would do the show 5 more years.

It was my impression that Jay dot like the ultimatum, but did it to not ruffle feathers, and Jay knew that if his show was still on top after 5 years, he could go elsewhere.

Fast-forward 5 years.....Jay's show IS still on top. Rumors start swirling that perhaps Jay will host a show on a rival network. NBC doesn't like that idea either. So they then come up with the prime time show.

It's a BIG mess. But I think Jay and Conan can BOTH come out OK in this. Conan should stay.

You're argument makes no sense. Jay gave Conan the show, but it was NBC who moved Jay?

 

Jay needs to retire from television. After all, most of his income comes from stand-up anyway (a fact I think I read in this thread? somewhere else on VC?). I hope Conan leaves the network if Jay accepts the show.

There's no way to know if Conan's ratings would have been better or not had NBC gone with normal prime time shows. You're making a HUGE assumption that NBC...who is in last place...would have made prime time shows to help bring in an audience for Conan. More likely, NBC would have gone cheap and put on crappy reality shows that nobody would want to watch.

NBC dug themselves a Grand Canyon-sized hole, and now must figure out the safest and cheapest way out of it. If Leno leaves or if NBC dumps Leno, their gonna have to pay Jay a HUGE sum of money. Jay was guaranteed 2 years of his hefty salary. Conan's contract supposedly doesn't say he's guaranteed the 10:30-11:30 time. NBC claims they can legally move his show back a half hour, as long as it remains The Tonight Show.

By putting Leno on for a half hour, NBC probably feels Jay's ratings will be similar to what they were before the shake-up and much better than Conan's first half hour right now. And if Leno has a strong half hour, that should help Conan's show.

The hatred for Leno on this board is obvious, but come on people. Try to look at it like NBC is forced to look at it.

Ultimately, I think Conan stays. I don't think Fox is serious. It would cost major millions to start up a new late night show. Conan should slowly work on building up his audience, and eventually Leno WILL leave...maybe in just 2-3 years.

I feel a little bad for Conan. It doesn't SEEM fair. But remember, it was Leno who ultimately gave Conan the Tonight Show. Jay didn't like NBC's decision to get moved to prime time. Jay couldn't understand how NBC could take him out of a spot that he hosted THE HIGHEST RATED LATE NIGHT SHOW FOR OVER 10 YEARS?!

It's not Jay's fault that audiences haven't yet warmed to Conan....evidenced by Letterman beating him in every category.

If NBC can keep Conan (I think Conan would be foolish to go to Fox...he can build his audience the next handful of years, then when Jay finally bows out, he can get his normal hour back), Letterman may be an afterthought again. Letterman would be going up against Jay's half-hour (like it or not, his monologue is what brings in huge ratings and he destroyed Letterman in the ratings year after year) and Conan's first half-hour.

Farley's Matt Foley: Motivational Speaker bit, may be the funniest I have seen on SNL. I loved Farley.

Again, another SNL comic who gets mixed reactions.

I agreee....Farley was great and made me laugh. Any skit with him and Spade and/or Sandler was worth watching if for nothing else to see how long the skit could before one would start cracking up.

The skit where Spade, Farley and Sandler played snobby teen-age girls working at The Gap is one of my favorite Farley memories.

I must admit I find a few of Kristen Wigg's characters to be grating and not all that funny. I sure miss Amy Poehler...

Different strokes for different folks.

Wiig reminds me a lot of Carol Burnett in the way she does her characters. They're usually very relatable, but in a very funny and exaggerated way.

CHANGE We Can Believe In

I wish they'd do more adventurist/off beat stuff like that instead of revisiting the same old tired characters week after week.

I agree. Though Wiig's characters are SO good. I'm not bothered by repeating her characters.

I didn't see the potato chip skit, but sounds funny.

A few weeks back Hader played Dr. Jeckyll/Mr. Hyde. It's shot in b/w and he's giving a lecture. He explains that when he takes a certain potion, he transforms into someone who likes making out with other guys and asks for more funding to do more "research". It's very clear to the viewer that Jeckylly is gay and is using his Dr. Hyde transformation as a reason to like ohter men. Later in the sketch Armisen walks in asking if Hader's ready to go out to the club....Armisen talks very "fancy" and it's obvious he's Hader's lover. Of course, Hader tries to hide that from the male intellectuals recieving the lecture. It was very well done.

The past few shows have been pretty good overall. Hader and Forte are very talented and funny. And Keenan Thompson, who I'm not usually a fan of, has done some really funny stuff lately....I love his talk-show host who keeps breaking into song, while shunning whatever guest is on.

And anyone see Kristin Wiig (she's so great) this past weekend? She played her character that isn't good at keeping secrets....hysterical!

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/clips/surprise/1184650/

NOTE: Saturday Night Live will have a 2-hour Christmas special Thursday night, with Kristin Wiig's Gilly character as host. Apparently Gilly will be featured in a couple new skits, along with classic SNL Christmas skits.

I think you're probably right. I listened to SBS and W(TA) back-to-back the other day, and SBS definitely came across as a weightier and more impressive listen. This was totally contrary to my first impressions.

But this is suggesting that W(TA) will be thought of as a greater Wilco record in the future. It MAY sound a little better in the future, but the thing that I think it lacks....cohesiveness...won't ever improve. Sky Blue Sky sounds better to me because most of it sounds really beautiful and fits well together (I still think Shake it Off, ruins the record..."One True Vine" should have been on this record...it's so beautiful).

I struggle liking W(TA), I think, because I can't get a feel for what the album is. It sounds like a Wilco greatest hits album, yet most of the "hits" are lesser versions of the true hits they've already done. I do agree with another here that the first half is much better than the second half. I'd say the first half of W(TA) is great. The 2nd half is mediocre at best.

After a period of absolute bliss with the record, followed by a period of disillusionment, I'm back to loving the album. Is it Yankee Hotel Foxtrot or Summerteeth? No. But it's still a lot better than SBS.

My take:

After a period of pleasantness with the record, followed by a period of disillusionment, I've settled into just kinda liking the album. Is it Yankee Hotel Foxtrot or Summerteeth? No. And it's not better than SBS.

When you're getting sacked nine times, no quarterback is going to look good. That's something Texas will definitely need to fix to neutralize any pressure from Alabama.

 

I disagree with you on Texas deserving to go to the title game, though. When did an entire season come down to one game? What if the final games of the season came down to Texas destroying Oklahoma State on the road and Alabama needing two blocked field goals to beat Tennessee? Would you then say Alabama didn't deserve its title shot?

Texas deserve it as much as any other undefeated team I guess. But I'm not very impressed with Texas' offense and would rather see someone like TCU play Alabama.

I saw Kansas rack up 400+ yards against Nebraska and KU made Suh a non-factor. Texas couldn't do squat against the Cornhuskers. The Longhorns were very fortunate to win the game.

I'm not super high on Alabama either. But their dominate win against a back-to-the-wall, highly-ranked, senior Tim-Tebow-led Florida team makes me VERY ok with the Crimson Tide going to the championship. Nebraska basically has a non-existant offense, and I though the Cornhuskers STILL looked like the better team.

I would be shocked if Harbaugh left Stanford for KU. No offense to the Jayhawks and their fans, but that move would not be a step up IMHO. I think KU should just hire Gill. He's a great coach and I think that he would be able to recruit well enough to make KU a regular contender in the Big 12 North.

KU's willing to pay in the $2.5 million range. That's tempting for anybody.

Plus, his wife is from the KC area and the Big 12 North is quite attractive, as no team in that division is elite. Win the Big 12 North, then get a one-game shot at beating Texas or Oklahoma to go to a BCS game. It almost worked out for a Nebraska team that couldn't even beat Iowa State on its home field.

Though I was pulling for Nebraska, because I hate the BCS and want complete chaos at the end of every season, I am kind of glad Texas ended up getting that second back. If that's the game ended that way, McCoy/Brown would have done the stupidest thing I have ever seen at the end of a game (the only possible explanation for that call is that Brown forgot he had a timeout left), and neither of them deserve that on their record.

 

--Mike

McCoy admitted that he didn't know the rule was changed to the clock wouldn't stop until the ball hit something out of bounds. McCoy thought it stopped once the ball passed the 1st down marker.

STILL...

That was INEXCUASABLE. First, Brown should have called a timeout once it was apparent that McCoy was letting TOO much time tick away. When McCoy snapped it, I assumed he'd spike it instantly. When he nonchalantly rolled out and was scanning the field, I seriously thought the game was gonna end. McCoy was VERY fortunate to get that second back. If he arcs that ball slightly higher or throws it slightly longer, that last second ticks off.

That, combined with the fact it took a BONEHEADED out-of-bounds kickoff by the Nebraska kicker PLUS the 15-yard horse-collar tackle to get Texas in field goal range, makes me think Texas IS NOT deserving of going to the championship game. I'd much rather see TCU take on Alabama. McCoy does not look like a good quarterback when pressured, and Alabama will pressure him as much as Nebraske.

I feel bad for the Cincinatti players that Nore Dame lured their coach away. Some of the them are TICKED OFF and I don't blame them. One player said that Kelly thanked the players for playing so well and thus helping him to be able to get a job at Notre Dame. If I was a Cinci player, I'd be like, "screw you!" One player said that college football is now just a game of coaches moving up the ladder to get a big paycheck. He's right. Mack Brown getting 5.1 million just raised the bar to another insane level.

Speaking of coaches leaving a team to go to a better-paying job, Kansas is in the hunt for a new coach. Rumors are the Turner Gill (Buffalo), Skip Holtz (East Carolina) and Jim Harbaugh (Stanfor) have all talked to KU's A.D. It's gonna suck for one of those teams if KU lands one of those coaches.

Tommy Tubberville has now stated he'd like to coach at Kansas. Wow! As a KU fan, that would be VERY NICE.

I, too, listened to W(TA) the past few days...after not listening to it for a few weeks.

After my first listen, I thought "y'know...maybe this record isn't as mediocre as I originally thought".

But then listening to it a 2nd and 3rd time confirmed my original belief. Overall, it's bland.

In my opinion, Bull Black Nova and Solitaire are AMAZING. I'd rank those 2 songs with many of the Wilco greats. One Wing is nearly to that level. You and I, though kinda cheesy, IS a very beautiful and worthy song and has grown on me a LOT. My Country Disappeared is close to being great.....not sure why it doesn't feel great to me....I preferred the early live versions of it.

The rest leaves me flat.

I just don't understand how the top music awards can be completely oblivious to what true music geeks are listening to and appreciating. The Academy Awards will get behind artsy/indie movies, but not the Grammy's (unless it is some Cuban brass band that I'll never listen to anyway).

THIS.

The Alternative Album category has nominated many worthy records over the years, but even that category is basically just nominating the most popular "indie" records. In in its 19 year history, all these artists have had multiple nominations:

PJ Harvey, Coldplay, Tori Amos, Beck, Nirvana/Foo Fighters, R.E.M., Radiohead/Thom Yorke, Smashing Pumpkins, Bjork, White Stripes, Fatboy Slim, Flaming Lips, Death Cab for Cutie and The Cure.

Other artists who got a nomination over the years: The Replacements (All Shook Down), Richard Thompson (Rumor and Sigh), B-52's (Good Stuff), Morrissey (Your Arsenal), David Bowie (Earthling), Elvis Costello (Cruel Smile) and Paul McCartney (Liverpool Sound Collage).

It's as much a popularity contest as the Best Artist award. Yes, there SHOULD be a more "artsy/indie" category. Then maybe bands like Spoon, Okkervil River, Mountain Goats, Blitzen Trapper or many other great bands and their records would get deserving recognition.

That praying when things are crappy is more common than praying when things are going well.

You might be right. I think it's natural for people to pray when things aren't going well. But I think many devout Christians pray every day, even when things are going well. Prayers like, "help me stay positive today", or "please help keep my children safe walking to school" or "watch over my Grandma today and help her find happiness living alone" variety rather than the "make the Steelers win the Super Bowl" or "take away the cancer in my Uncle" variety.

As there are more than a billion Catholics worldwide, there are certain prayers said in rosary and/or mass that must be recited millions of times every day:

OUR FATHER: Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.

HAIL MARY: Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

APOSTLE'S CREED: I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father; from thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

Really, the sky is the limit where using tax payer dollars to keep a single terminally ill patient alive is concerned?

Only if they're Conservative.

To what bill are you referring? Obama is far too vague of a President to have an actual bill.

Touche.

shes stood behind her death panel comments numerous times. She says everything he does is leading us down a socialist path. I know im a fan of hers on facebook

60 Minutes had a piece yesterday talking to doctors about end of life decisions. One doctor said he thinks it'd be best if, at a certain age, people weren't allowed pace-makers 'cause in the long run he didn't think it was worth the price. That opinion might bother a lot of people.

Does Obama's bill have such possibilities? I don't know. But if it does, that's probably the sort of "death panels" Palin refers to.

Palin's not the ONLY one saying we're going down a socialist path.

I'd have to take a lot of time to think of my ultimate list. But I also saw the Up live show and it was GREAT.

Because of that, I'd throw in "Lotus".