DiamondClaw

I would say the current lineup has done some pretty great arrangements over the past couple records. 'I'll Fight' stands out to me as the best, air-tight, minimal-playing arrangement where every single instrument in the band is fitting in to a really distinct role. It fits together like a machine (see also the instrumental break on "Bull Black Nova). It's really a tightly woven groove with each instrument working together seamlessly. Sometimes I think it's a rare case where the arrangement is actually better than the song itself (and it's a well written song).

Funny, for me "I'll Fight" is an example of the exact opposite: a case of too MUCH playing, too many cooks in the kitchen. I think this song would benefit from stripping away a layer or two, even if it meant a member or two of the band wasn't on this track. Probably why I like the song better when Jeff plays it solo. The lyric to "I'll Fight" is great.

I think the more mainstream, almost syrupy songwriting of "I'll Fight" and "You and I" could have been offset by some rougher production. They seem almost pedestrian and the arrangement exposes the weakness of the songwriting. "My Darling" is a song of a similar ilk, yet because of the arrangement and instrumentation, it creates an ethereal atmosphere that detract (in a good way) from the almost insipid lyric.

I don't think the songwriting on "I'll Fight" is syrupy or weak at all. In fact, I think they are some of the most biting lyrics Jeff has ever written, when you look beneath the surface of the cheesy "I'll go, I'll go..." part. And I think that's the point of the song- I find it very clever. I do agree the arrangement could use some work, personally I just think it is a case of too many cooks in the kitchen. The acoustic riff is great, but maybe the stripped down Jeff/John/Leroy/Glenn era Wilco would have delivered a less polished, more gritty performance of this song. But from a lyrical point of view, I think it is stellar.

Check out both versions of "Spiders (Kidsmoke)". There really isn't to much going on with the actual melody: an "A" part, four lines of simple melody, and cryptic lyric, a "B" part that doesn't appear until the end, but there still isn't much going on there: a melody confined to four notes, and no "lift", and no real chorus. And yet, and I totally dig both versions of the song, as do most of you, from what I can discern. But the arrangements in both versions aren't mainstream pop. One is Krautrock, the other folk. Both are a little polarizing, in the best possible way: it forces you to react. I think the disappointment in some of W(TA) is that it doesn't challenge the listener, and most Wilco fans want the challenge. I don't have to react to "You and I". I can listen to it while I do the dishes. And maybe that's the problem.

I love the original version of Spiders, and really like the AGIB version, and I agree with your descriptions- the arrangements make that song (both versions) by being creative and evocative. However, a song like "You and I" can still carry meaning and be enjoyable even if it isn't as "challenging". I like the challenging stuff, but I don't expect Jeff to write an entire album of wall to wall challenging material, especially if it's naturally/organically not forming that way.

Or the guitar line being pretty close to this:

 

 

Throwing a big guitar freak out/noise ending is a pretty cliched way for Wilco to end a song, I'm glad they chose differently for One Wing.

 

I'm also glad they changed the key, F# minor is much nicer for this tune.

Ha! I never realized how similar the riffs are in those two songs! Also, I agree that "One Wing" sounds better in F#m.

Reading over this thread, W(TA) gets a pretty bad rap; worse than I think it deserves. I really think there are a lot of very good songs as individuals- "Wilco (the Song)" (gimmicky, but actually a very good song), "One Wing" (masterpiece), "Bull Black Nova" (masterpiece), "Country Disappeared" (smooth and beautiful), "I'll Fight" (great lyrics)- but the general/overall impression of the album always seems to be low.

IMO, the biggest misstep they took was not including "Dark Neon". A common complaint about W(TA) is that it gets sort of slow and safe in the second half, which I understand. The first half of the album is rock solid, to me, but the second half, which still has quality songs, could use some spicing up. "Dark Neon" would fit well a lot of places on the album, but I would probably slot it between "Country Disappeared" and "Solitaire" to inject some different flavor in that section.

I've heard people say "Dark Neon" wouldn't "fit" with the rest of the album, but W{TA) already feels like a "little from here, little from there/smorgasbord" style record, even Jeff describes it that way. So I think "Dark Neon" would add a nice new dimension to the collection of songs. At 11 songs, its not like the album was over-long anyway; adding a 12th song would be fine.

The one other thing about W(TA) is the last song- "Everlasting (Everything)" feels very rushed and compressed and doesn't leave the listener with a great final taste in their mouth, which I think affects impressions of the album as a whole. It's one of the weaker songs on the album, but if they want to make it the final track they should have let it breathe much more.

There are a couple other very minor edits I would make if it were mine, purely out of personal taste (As much as I like Nels, I don't like his parts on "Sonny Feeling" at all) but otherwise I think the album is solid. Also, I think my impression of the album was aided by not listening to any of it until it was released, which kept it fresh and interesting.

Just my .02.

I agree with a lot of what you say here, but I don't think that the arrangement problem you allude to revolves around Nels Cline necessarily. I also don't believe that Wilco is likely to shift its focus significantly from being a guitar band.

 

In my opinion, the arrangements could just do with being sparser and more dynamic. The precedent set by SBS, where they all sat down and recorded together, is in some ways a dangerous one, because it assumes that everyone has to be involved all the time. A band which has built such a successful live reputation, is also likely to arrange parts for all its members.

 

More light and shade within songs would make a big difference. They're all great players, it's just that when they're all competing for space in the aural spectrum for too long, definition and sonic identity gets lost. A lot of this could be achieved just through imaginative and/or brutal editing, which is what happened with a lot of YHF, after all.

 

You won't find a guitarist with more colours on his sonic palette than Nels Cline, so personally, I don't think it's a guitar problem of his making. Live, I think that some of the most exciting moments revolve around the combination of Tweedy's acoustic and Cline's electric. More of these dynamic combinations, in greater isolation and involving some of the other voices, as you suggest, would be good.

I agree with this too. While I like WTA more than most, I do think it suffers a little from the "too many cooks in the kitchen" syndrome- especially "I'll Fight" and "Sonny Feeling". To me, "I'll Fight" would have been better with a much sparser arrangement, not unlike they way they performed tracks in the early '00s, as opposed to the distracting, everybody-has-to-have-a-part circus of sound. Sonny Feeling- as much as I like Nels, I actually think that song would be better without a bunch of his overdubs.

But I guess that's the problem with a six-piece band- everybody has to have "their" part. Your idea of light and shade editing would do wonders. Would it ruffle any feathers though?

I have no idea what to expect, nor what I necessarily want in the next album. I guess I hope it has good, genuine songs that aren't forced into being "different" or "harder" just for the sake of doing it, nor do I want anything overly "radio-friendly." If that means more rockish stuff or more cutting edge stuff, then fine... but if that means more soft, introspective, ballads from Tweedy that's fine, too.

Songwriting trumps any sound direction for me, if the songs are compelling enough at this point they have the lineup to pull off almost any direction they want to go in.

This sums it up to me. As long as Tweedy writes good songs, and they are performed honestly and not manipulated to be something they are not, I'll be happy. I think some fans sometimes have very, very specific and often unfair expectations for Wilco. Kind of like that "tortured artistic soul/ voice of a generation/ poster boy for indie rock martyrdom" joke.

As long as the process is organic, I'm sure their natural musical instincts will guide them to a beautiful record.

If the "Do it live!" reference is unfamiliar, here's the original:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tJjNVVwRCY

Maybe I'm the only one, but I had never seen that O'Reilly video before- thanks for that! I don't care what your politics are, that is comedy gold!! Also, great set list.

Did you get a pre-nub? Or, should I say, did SHE? Since it's obvious you're just marrying her for her money.

Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone tried their hand at this great song from the 7 Worlds Collide project. If so, would anyone be kind enough to tab it out? I'd love to see the chords to this one and give it a shot. Thanks!

Alright, I was told I had to put my list up here, even though composing it meant thinking way too hard and making way too many difficult cuts. In NO particular order AT ALL, here's my top 20:

1. Far, Far Away

2. Sunken Treasure

3. I'm Always In Love

4. She's a Jar

5. Pieholden Suite

6. I Am Trying to Break Your Heart

7. Jesus, Etc.

8. More Like The Moon

9. Not For the Season

10. Chinese Apple

11. Spiders (Kidsmoke)

12. You Are My Face

13. Impossible Germany

14. Gun

15. Should've Been in Love

16. Cars Can't Escape

17. Pot Kettle Black

18. At Least That's What You Said

19. A Shot in the Arm

20. I Can't Keep From Talking

Oof. So many good ones cut!