Littlebear

Lou Reed. For his voice (of unique, leather tone) and his fascinating rock attitude. John Cale could do the best he wanted, he could never beat that, which he knew himself since the Velvet days already.

Reed and Cale share a common point that I like from them: they can be crazy on record.

None of them have been up to the Velvet, though. Who knows, the secret weapon might have been Sterling Morrison.

Madonna IS in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and certainly deserves to be in, since the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a big joke as well.

I hope Wilco will never get in.

Why would your questions "bother" me? That's just a weird thing to say.

Apparently you're not schooled in what the music industry was like for female artists by the early 80s, but it's a fact that the Madonna's rise caused a fundamental shift in the way women were perceived in the mainstream - no longer toys to be sold, but toys to sell themselves.

Also, female artists influenced by Madonna:

Mariah Carey

Britney Spears

Christina Aquilera

Shirley Manson

Tori Amos

...partial list. Listen, I'm not trying to get you to become a Madonna fan - and you can argue that the "good thing of it" isn't there: meaning you don't like Madonna or many of the artists she's influenced - that's fine. It's also beside the point. But you deny she opened doors. There, you're wrong.

Sorry, but all I understand is that she opened doors to women who can now sell themselves as toys instead of being sold as toys - which kind of progress that is, when other women decided to not be toys long time ago?

I mean, I'm a fan of the Shangri-Las, of Jackie De Shannon, of Bobbie Gentry, all female stars who were quite independent in the mainstream. I don't know what you're talking about - you probably repeat what you read about Madonna, but to me, it's simply a joke. Doors were opened already to female artists before Madonna. They talk of her marketing genius or something. I'll call that marketing bullshit.

What difference does personal preference make in this conversation? None. None of your points are valid arguments against Madonna being influential and trailblazing.

And what are your valid arguments? There's only one objectivity to your side: she had success, and every success has an influencial power.

But how has Madonna opened the doors to female artists? In which kind of way? Can you name me some female artists influenced by Madonna? And explain me the good thing of it?

Sorry, I know my questions bother you. But admit the fact that your tentative to legitimate her "value" is cheap at best - so far.

How that?

 

 

 

You really don't see how that's possible? Madonna's career is like a how-to of reinvention and relevance (admittedly, not as much lately, but c'mon - almost 20 years of being savvy and talented enough to keep the hits coming).

Well, I'd like to hear what was reinvented and relevant in the 80's and 90's from her, and to which women she opened doors, except for a lot of shit I can't stand on radios?

There were a lot of female artists more interesting than her in the eighties already. They were independent, and still are. They didn't market them as sort of pop bitches to make it big (for instance). Cyndi Lauper had more class than her in the showbiz. Sam Phillips, Jill Sobule never made it big but are still more interesting today. Lucinda Williams, Michelle Shocked obviously didn't wait for Madonna to open their doors, either.

Madonna really opened a lot of doors for a lot of women artists.

How that?

I hate when I don't understand someone's reply?

Come on. You said "for me, etc" and another person said "I agree".

Nevermind.

>For me any half ass song that features a pedal steel becomes worth listening to.

 

I agree.

And for you?

Pedal steel must be one of the sound that annoys me the most in music, I'm afraid, except for a few good ones. Like "A Song For You" by Gram Parsons. But I can tell I hate it on Neil Young's Harvest and many other country records.

On the other hand, I'm totally fond of the steel guitar sound, such as those on Hank Williams or Kitty Wells records.

As well as the slide guitar, which is something else again.

This album is, finally, the only one album by this band I consider as a keeper. The previous two ended to be quite boring to me. Now they have found something. They master their thing.

One thing that is almost shocking is how "Hang On" sounds like a pastiche of Wilco. I'm actually wondering if these bands sound similar for sharing similar influences, or if Dr Dog really aknowledges the influence of Wilco?

By the way: do you know of other bands who sound influenced by Wilco? I can't seem to recall any other one.

Two things surprise me: I'm not alone in loving "Afternoon Tea", and only one person mentionned "Shangri-La" (so far)

Before I posted this, there were 3. Two by Todd, one by you. All good. I beefed up the Hillbilly love with 5 cuts.

 

 

There was no reason for me to not count your cuts in, since you posted them before your post about how MH hadn't much love for you.

As for me, my feelings are the same as jff about it. I love it, but on repeated listens, not as much as I would like, since it's quite morose.

In my opinion, the Kinks lost a little something after 1968. But Ray Davies had still some kind of class after, nonetheless.

This quote from Rollingstone embodies how it could suck to be Jeff Tweedy about this time:

 

"I'm sitting here trying to figure out what the record is about," he told us, sitting around their kitchen table. "This is the first time I've had to talk about it so it's a pretty uncomfortable situation. I'm more uncomfortable than I thought I would be. I really love the record and I'm really proud of it but I'm not at the point where I know how to talk about it. I'm still in the part of my mind that is, if I could tell you about it then I wouldn't have even made it. I just want you to hear it."

 

You've spent blood and sweat in the vulnerability of the creative process, laid your heart open, then you have to think about what you want to say about it on the record, knowing you're going to be judged against what you say now, and that the music will be judged against what you say, and what you said before will be judged based on what others say about the album, and -- hopefully -- by what one actually hears on the album.

Does anyone have aspirin?

"Misfits" is a very fine late 70s song, too.

Not a lot of love for this masterpiece.

Well, it seems to me that a good bunch of its songs have been mentionned above.

Two Sisters

Death of a Clown

Autumn Almanac

David Watts

Afternoon Tea

Dead End Street

Sunny Afternoon

Alcohol

Sitting By the Riverside

Don't Ever Change

Stop Your Sobbin'

Rosy Won't You Please Come Home

Mr Pleasant

Animal Farm

Starstruck

You Really Got Me

All Day and All of the Night

Tired of Waiting For You

Wonderboy

and Dar Williams's cover of "Better Things"

what are some good country artists out now?

Mary Gauthier, Fred Eaglesmith, Kelly Willis, Laura Cantrell, Joy Lynn White, The Creekdippers, Freakwater, Slim Cessna's Auto Club...

P.S.

Billy Joe Shaver is my dad's first cousin. He was recently indicted for shooting a guy in the face. He got in a bar fight in my home town of Lorena, Tx. That's real country(ha, ha). I think the best album Waylon ever did was an album of Billy Joe covers called Honky Tonk Heroes.

I have all of B.J. Shaver's CDs. Hard to pick a fave, but I'd mention Victory as a great start.

There's a line in the next Dylan album that goes like this: "I'm listening to Billy Joe Shaver / I'm reading James Joyce / Some people they tell me / I've got the blood of the land in my voice."

As for Waylon Jennings, my favorite album is Dreaming My Dreams (I only have a few, but I have Honky Tonk Heroes too).

Willie Nelson

Waylon Jennings

Johnny Cash

Kris Kristofferson

Jerry Jeff Walker

Guy Clark

Merle Haggard

Townes Van Zandt

George Jones

David Allan Coe

Hayes Carll

Ray Wylie Hubbard

Dwight Yoakam

Robbie Fulks

Willie Heath Neal

The Star Room Boys

Hayes Carll

 

And so many more.

Among my big faves: Tompall Glaser, Billy Joe Shaver, Steve Young...

The title of this thread is provocating.

I love lots of styles of musics and the country one is clearly one of my favorites.

And there's not Hank Williams only.

And there is good *country pop*. I think my fave country singer is Skeeter Davis. And she's quite country-pop. And of course quite old-fashioned. But she had the finest voice ever, great tunes, nice production... She was totally enchanting.

Can't say if "bad country music" is the worst music in this world, but it's clearly awful.

Here's McTell's magic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIqAKvrzzCo listen to that voice and that guitar...

And here's Elmore James' fire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsELdS1tQBU

Didn't Blind Willie McTell record under a different name as well as that one?

Yep, several ones: Blind Sammie, Georgia Bill...

I'd say Dylan could only dream of sounding like Elmore James. Or Blind Willie McTell (since he sang about it).

Everyone has mentionned my favorites (looks like anyone mentionned his favorites instead of answering the initial request, too, apart from LouieB ): Blind Willie McTell, Lightnin' Hopkins, Otis Rush, Elmore James, Mississippi John Hurt (though you could say he's folk, this one), Sonny Boy Williamson (II), Howlin' Wolf (tell me about dirty, he's been the first garage one, no?)...

But one of my faves hasn't been mentionned yet.

(big suspense...)

Furry Lewis.

Is there any connection between Jeff Tweedy and Neko Case at all?

Yankee Hotel Fox Confessor Brings the Flood by Wilko Case

To boot, if Jeff sounds like a frog with her (as he said himself), she would be happy.