Moe_Syzlak

I mean, I always thought that these two songs were very similar and comparable.

 

Am I in the minority here?

You know, I went and listened to the Being There versions after i posted this and I can see that now. I personally can't stand the production on the Pre-YHF albums (things like the aforementioned phase effect), so in my head I'm thinking of solo Tweedy Sunken Treasure vs. Kicking TV Misunderstood.

Could this be more apples and oranges? Maybe ELT vs. Radio Cure? Anyway if the choice is Misunderstood (studio) vs. Sunken treasure (studio), I'll pick Sunken Treasure based on the live versions. The "nothing!" shouts in Misunderstood grate on me as does the phasing effect on Jeff's voice in the studio version.

Man, dreamy music is the LAST thing I'd want for late night driving.

We've got to drive a total of 20 hours (minimum if traffic and the weather cooperate) between 5:00 PM this Friday and 5:00 PM this coming Sunday. So I will be following this thread intently.

That's not what he said - he said Sawyer as LaFleur would remember the events of 2004, on the island after the crash. He's talking about whether LaFleur would recognize young Ben.

Right LaFleur-Sawyer would have the memories of 2004 Sawyer, but 2004 Sawyer would not have the memories of LaFleur Sawyer. Similarly, 1970s little Ben would not have the memories of of 2004 Ben. BUT is 2004 Ben on the other island in the 1970s about to get a memory of LaFleur in the same way Demond's memory of Farraday suddenly popped into Desmond's head? THAT would be weird. LaFleur meets young Ben and older Ben, now on the small time plane (for lack of a better word) as young Ben, suddenly now remembers meeting the Losties in the 1970s.

This is the only one I could find for now.

 

Ha! that's great. I don't think I've ever seen that. It reminds me of the mullet family:

It looks like if night 1 was a return to the early 90s heyday, last night was a return to the Island Tour. We have still only seen two (peripheral) songs from a certain thesis: Possum and PYITE.

I cannot believe for one instant that the writers would allow this Ben/Sawyer+ 1970s deal to go unanswered. There is just simply no way they "missed" that and it is a continuity error.

Yeah this is what i think too. There is NO WAY they will ask us to swallow the idea that Sawyer et al just lived with young Ben and didn't do anything about it. If they asked us to swallow that it would be the single biggest unbelievable turn in a show that features a wide array of ridiculous plot devices.

I'm up to Taste and it is really good. They are very tight though a little timid at first. Thing loosen up a bit midway through the first set. Page is the MVP, IMO.

As far as the benjamin timeline thing goes, if we don't have exact dates or anything, its possible he was born in 1965 and shows up in 1977, after the most recent episode takes place. Who knows? When I first brought it up I was just saying it occurred to me that he might have been there in those years.

Right and that would be fine with me.I was simply responding to KevinG who said that he feels it is entirely within the realm of plausibility for them to live in this compound for three years with a young Ben and not notice him. I disagree with that and if that were what the writers were asking us to swallow, I'd have a hard time with it ... but not the smoke monster and timeshiftimg donkey wheel!

Again, since Daniel said (repeatedly) that they cannot do anything to change future events, what good would it do to say anything about Ben's future attack on the DI?

 

What should Sawyer et al. do about 12 year-old Ben?

 

edit: I just don't understand what the continuity error is here. Either they know the 1970s Linuses or not, but they can't do anything to change what happens to them later.

All I'm saying is that they should acknowledge that a 12 year old Ben is running around. They did that with Charlotte immediately. It's a pretty big deal to have them living at the DI at the same time as little Ben don't you think? Regardless if they can DO anything about it. Besides, do you really think that is in keeping with Swayer's personality? "Oh look, it's little Ben Linus! In the future he's responsible for killing everyone here. Oh but wait, Daniel said we can't change anything, so I guess I'll just pretend he isn't here."

Sawyer of 2004 would not know anything about what "LaFleur" knows of the Dharma Initiative. Though it is happening in the past, it is in Sawyer 2004's future.

Huh? Sawyer's timeline means he WOULD have memories of 2004 even as he is LaFleur in the '70s. He knew Ben lived in that compound -- as did Juliette -- and he knew Ben's last name was Linus. You don't think that over the course of three years that Sawyer is living as LaFleur (not to mention Juliette) that he would notice a kid running around named Ben Linus? So, IMO, if the timelines we are talking about are accurate (i.e. Ben WAS living on the island with his dad while LaFleur is there), the show either hasn't yet addressed the fact that they DO in fact know who Ben is or it is a real continuity error (again, IMO).

So I saw this last night. Very rare for me to see any movie on opening night, let alone a three hour comic book movie. But, for some reason, I found myself there. I know nothing about the book save for the little bits of general plot floating around right now. So I really had very little prejudice. I thought it was ... okay. It had its moments of being really good, but ultimately I was left kinda flat. It is an interesting concept, but I think ultimately the problem is not in adapting a graphic novel (though not having read it I can't really say), but in the fact that

Also, I'm now very curious about the ending and may have to read at least the final chapter of the book.

AGiB

YHF

KT

Rarely listen to any of the others. Not a fan a of the sound of those albums and prefer live versions.

Why does it have to be a fuckup? What difference could Sawyer, et al. make? Daniel has said repeatedly they can't change future events.

To me it would be a fuck up if the timelines for Ben being on the island and Sawyer being part of '70s Dharma and they claim that they never knew or noticed Ben. We have always been led to believe that the DI compound is small enough (and the Linus family used the name Linus) that there should be no way they don't know about each other after three years of living together.

So I had said Curtain-> All Thing reconsidered-> Fluffhead opener ... or just Fluffhead if they didn't go with the cutesy. I had YEM as the second set closer and Loving Cup as the last song. Not bad. I was getting texts form inside the show from a friend that I have seen more than 100 Phish shows with and he said, "it's like 1994 in here" ... sweet!

In the mood for live music for some reason today.

On Ben at the Dharma camp.

 

Whereas it is likely he is at the camp the same time Sawyer et al, he may not be noticed by them. Ben is a man of mystery and are we sure that any of the group know that Ben was part of the DI? Sawyer, Jin, Miles, and Daniel probably do not. The question is about Juliet. She may not know, who knows what Ben told her. Remember Ben told John at one point that he was born on the island. He could have told Juliet a similar story. Who knows? They have no reason to think that Ben was part of the DI. So why would they think to for him there. Plus the DI is probably 100 so people. They aren't asking people names, so the likelihood of them bumping into a 12 year old kid in the group seems unlikely. Also have you ever known anyone on that show to put two and two together and come up with a logical conclusion?

 

One thing that people forget about the show is that the audience gets to see everything, whereas the characters do not. So they do not have the same knowledge base as the audience.

 

On another note, where was Daniel in the "3 years later" story line. He was the only one of that group that they did not show.

I respectfully disagree. They are in a small compound for three years. They would know who is who. Hell, Daniel spotted Charlotte in like five seconds. Ben would still have the name Linus as would his father. If the Linus family is already on the island at this point Sawyer, Juliette, et al know who he is, IMO. If not, the writers fucked up!

Watchmen - It was good, I think I'm going to watch it again.

Is it out yet?

What? It took Bush eight years to F this country and you expect Obama to un-F it in eight weeks?

In fairness, Bush was able to F things up a lot faster than 8 years.

One thing I really liked from the episode was seeing the statue, which I speculate is Thoth the Atlantean.

Thoth has played a prominent role in many of the Egyptian myths. Displaying his role as arbitrator, he had overseen the three epic battles between good and evil. All three battles are fundamentally the same and belong to different periods. The first battle took place between Ra and Apep, the second between Heru-Bekhutet and Set, and the third between Horus, the son of Osiris, and Set. In each instance, the former god represented order while the latter represented chaos. If one god was seriously injured, Thoth would heal them to prevent either from overtaking the other.

Thoth was also prominent in the Osiris myth, being of great aid to Isis. After Isis gathered together the pieces of Osiris' dismembered body, he gave her the words to resurrect him so she could be impregnated and bring forth Horus. When Horus was slain, Thoth gave the formulae to resurrect him as well. Similar to God speaking the words to create the heavens and Earth in Judeo-Christian mythology, Thoth, being the god who always speaks the words that fulfill the wishes of Ra, spoke the words that created the heavens and Earth in Egyptian mythology.

This mythology also credits him with the creation of the 365 day calendar. Originally, according to the myth, the year was only 360 days long and Nut was sterile during these days, unable to bear children. Thoth gambled with Khonsu, the moon, for 1/72nd of its light (360/72 = 5), or 5 days, and won. During these 5 days, Nut gave birth to Kheru-ur (Horus the Elder, Face of Heaven), Osiris, Set, Isis, and Nepthys.

In the Ogdoad cosmogony myth, Thoth gave birth to Ra, Atum, Nefertum, and Khepri by laying an egg while in the form of an ibis, or later as a goose laying a golden egg.

Horus? Horace?

There is an ancient text, survived till our days, written by one of the inhabitants of Atlantis — Thoth the Atlantean. It is titled The Emerald Tablets [66].

Below is presented a selection of main excerpts from this remarkable spiritual work.

In the Emerald Tablets, Thoth the Atlantean gives information about the geography of the Atlantis islands, including their names, and about the state structure. Yet, its most valuable part is a description of the spiritual Path presented in a disguised (for incompetent readers) form.

About the destruction of Atlantis, Thoth says known things: confidential knowledge was imparted to unworthy people and the latter began using it for evil purposes. Also they adopted bloody sacrifices — and this resulted in numerous incarnations of hellish beings among people. That is why God decided to destroy this decayed oasis of spiritual culture.

The islands of Atlantis submerged into the ocean in two stages. Before the second stage, Thoth the Atlantean — one of the Highest Spiritual Adepts of Atlantis, who knew Mergence with the Primordial (the Dweller) — was ordered by the Primordial to gather a group of Atlanteans similar to Him and move to Egypt, called Khem at that time.

The Primordial advised Thoth thus: “Go forth as a Teacher of men! Go forth reserving the records (with Teachings) until in time the Light grows among men! Light shall You be all through the ages, hidden yet found by enlightened men. Over all Earth, give We You power, free You to give or take it away.”

Working with the people of Khem as an Emissary of the Primordial on the Earth, Thoth the Atlantean manifested Himself to them also in the form of a Pyramid.

He explained that the Path to Mergence with the Primordial, which Thoth Himself had traversed, anyone can strive to traverse. Yet, there are obstacles on this Path; they create difficulties for travelers: these difficulties prevent the weak, fool, and ethically unworthy from going further. Go! But do not take with you the unwise, insincere, weak!

Thoth the Atlantean gives basic recommendations for initial harmonization of the chakra system. For fulfilling just this recommendation He promises health and longevity.

Then one has to seek the methods of mastering diving as a soul into “star worlds” and other spatial dimensions, which are “vacant to all seeming, yet hidden within them are the keys…” Then the worthy seeker cognizes the Light of the Great Fire — this is one of the Forms in which a seeker perceives the Primordial, having approached Him.

Later Thoth the Atlantean was incarnated — again in Egypt — as Hermes Thrice-born*. “I began preaching to (these) people the beauty of religion and Knowledge,” wrote He. This treatise of His ends with passionate appeal to neighbors: “O people, men born on the Earth, who indulge in drunkenness and sleep, ignorant of God! Sober up, cease your surfeit, awake from your dullness!… Why… do you give up yourself to death while you have power to partake immortality?!”

I love this line:

they resolved to be the version of Phish they prized most: the intently practiced, well-prepared Phish from the mid-90s.

As for openers, I'm going with this trifecta:

Curtain-> All Things Reconsidered-> Fluffhead

YEM will close the second set.

Worst episode of the series? Go back and watch the one about how Jack got his tattoos. Or, of course, the Nikki and Paulo one.

In fact, look at this one compared to when they spent the first half of season 3, being imprisoned by the DI and nothing happened for weeks at a time. Oh... Kate has to put on a dress and have dinner with Ben... end episode one. Oh... Jack noticed something weird on an xray, I wonder if he'll have to perform surgery... end episode two. Oh Sawyer can get fish cookies... too bad he is being forced into slavery... end episode three. Oh Jack is performing surgery, I wonder what will go wrong... end episode 4. Booo-urns. This whole thing with them living with Dhama could have been dragged out A LOT longer, I'm glad it wasn't.

All of those episodes at least had flashbacks that provided character development (and I am one who found the flashbacks many times more interesting that he island's mysteroes). Last night's episode had NOTHING. We knew they were in the 70's or thereabouts from seeing Jin in the VW Bus. HOW they got to be part of the DI could've been handled in one quick monologue. Sawyer and Juliet? Okay who didn't see that one coming. Look everyone is allowed a clunker now and then, but I think that one was a clunker.

Am I the only one who felt this was the worst episode of the whole series!?! What did we learn? What was moved forward? I don't need questions and mysteries answered every episode, but it seemed to me the big plot movements of this episode were explaining they had been on the island for three years and that Sawyer and Juliet were an item. The Sawyer/Juliet thing was completely predictable and the three years could've been explained in a five minute scene as the jeep and VW Bus meet. Wasted episode if you ask me.

You are providing a service. You are a landlord.

Look I actually agree with you that we are too dependent on credit (both individually and as a country), but to dismiss borrowing money as a form of wealth generation out of hand is ridiculous. Of course you can create wealth with borrowed money. What is your distinction about services (such as the landlord example)? You seem to be saying that you can't borrow money and then piss it away. If that's the case, that gets a big ole "well duh!" from me.