Good Old Neon

Ok, cool. I totally forced my mom to do all that. (I don't really need to defend this, but if you look in the Bonnaroo thread, I said "I didn't want her to do it, but I don't mind." She did it for herself because she didn't want to camp, and didn't want me camping alone. )

 

Basically, I don't understand why there is any reason to buy a hummer, and I think it's a pretty ridiculous thing to buy. I probably shouldn't have said asshole, but yes I think it's a really stupid car to drive, and serves no practical purpose. If you really think I hate your father and wish him ill and etc, thats cool.

 

I should stop posting my opinion and wait until other people (such as Owl ^) say what I do only more eloquently, because it's only a matter of time before it happens, and I'll end up looking like less of a douchebag.

Flying consumes more fuel than most Humvee drivers would in a lifetime

Thats some of the most backwards assed logic I've ever seen.

 

Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, and we can't know the circumstances of every single driver, but for the most part, people who drive Hummer's aren't in accidents, and don't have dying children in the car. There is just as much a chance of that happening as any other driver on the road.

 

The gas going into the Hummer is the same as the VW, but the gas in the VW will get you farther, and will probably burn cleaner (as far as I know, Hummer's don't have to meet the same emission's standards as normal cars, because of their weight) and more efficiently. Even if the Hummer's driver has less of a distance to drive, he is still wasting more gas, because of he drove a passat, he would be using half of the gas.

 

Jesus, typing that all out, i just realized how stupid and backwards your logic was in that post. I can't believe I took the time to reply...

And if the Passat driver took public transportation

Absolutely.

 

Basically, unless you are patrolling the streets of Baghdad, Hummer's are pointless to own. There is no reason to own one other than because you can. And hey, if you do, thats awesome, you are doing extremely well for yourself. But I (and probably a ton of other people) are going to think you are an asshole.

And I'm considered the jerk?

What are you if you take public transportation? ...besides broke?

Late for work?

Mostly because Hummer's cost between 40,000 and 80,000 and get like 12 MPG. Wherease V-dubs get like 20-30 and cost between 16,000 and 35,000.

 

And if you drive a hummer, you are automatically an asshole, and thats not sarcasm. You cannot justify buying a Hummer unless you are an asshole.

Is the gas used to fill a VW

Now you

wait -- your world seems so very black and white -- that there isn't a difference between VW and Hummer -- but there is between nazi slave labor and japanese slave labor? Or our own african slave labor prior to 1865? Or that death in a japanese camp was somehow less bad (or less dead) than in a nazi camp?

 

And the nazis didn't bother to cook their victims -- they were only in there long enough to kill them with gas.

Now you

Impossibly Germany Finally makes sense. Is unlikely japan a dig at the aforementioned echo?

lol - brilliant. (no sarcasm intended or implied.)

I wasn't really defending you. I don't like people who call Jeff Tweedy a nazi.

I was well aware - I'm familiar with sarcasm - I guess you're not.

Thats the last time I put myself out there like that, ass.

Alright, look, it was funny ok - and appreciated - but I'm trying to be grumpy over here is all.

jnickerson -- I want to thank you for bringing together the fat.boy. and the analogman. It was worth 19 20 pages of hell.

 

And no response to my posts about toyoda's WWII history or what marketing is? Interesting.

Your welcome : )

The Japanese were responsible for many deaths

Yet you said the following in the first post:

Please tell me you notice the discrepancy in logic here.

I would understand if the band were huge VW fans

not for nothing but that VW suv isn't exactly cheap

Yeah, but, it's a VW - so, it's ok. Humvee bad - VW - good.

* road

**not

 

I will correct the mistakes - but I find it telling that you chose to attack my grammar - and not what was said.

I think the fundemental problem here is that you are clearly an exemplary individual, and others (including the members of Wilco) are unable to live up to your justifiably high standards.

I

Someone here mentioned that at least they did not sell the song to Hummer

Wow. Just wow.

 

I saw that jnickerson has a Toyota Echo. Nice car.

 

Note EB online:

Don't you suppose that some of those engines were used in planes/trains/automobiles that transported the Japanese on their way to killing people -- and also transported their slave laborers (chinese and other asians, not to mention POWs? I know for a fact that the Toyoda family is still involved (Shoichiro Toyoda is the honorary chairman).

 

I'm also sure that the Echo that you liked had the features/function/price/location that made it possible, even desirable, for you to buy it. That "feature/function" set was put together by -- you guessed it -- marketers. A different set of marketers made it possible for you to know where to go buy it -- and to look online and at brochures to do so. Even if you bought it used -- the same forces brought you and it together.

 

Same goes for that TV upon which you watched the dread Wilco/VW commercials. Those nasty, souless marketers -- and their sell-out jingles -- helped you buy it, like it or not.

I bought the Echo based on its fuel efficiency

I did, and I stand by it.

 

Go on, keep digging. Oh, wait -- I need more popcorn.

Do memories, lives and families ruined count?

I did, and I stand by it.

 

Go on, keep digging. Oh, wait -- I need more popcorn.

Perhaps your perspective would be changed if you were in some way affected.

You've got to be fucking kidding. No one could possibly be as dense as this "jnickerson" character you've created. Great bit.

"Nope. And to suggest otherwise is really reaching. The name has persisted, but nothing else."

Who said that?

Now you're just being juvenile. And you're sliding down a slippery slope.

 

If you really want to steer clear of every company that has so much as a whiff of blood on its hands, have fun in your shack in Montana, living off the land. You better mine your own ore to make your own tools, because you probably don't want to know what the various steel companies did in their youth. Don't buy lumber from anyone to build your shack -- you should only use wood you cut yourself. Don't buy your clothes unless you like supporting sweatshops. Et cetera and so forth. Have fun!

You, with one swipe of your hand, erased Volkswagen

Pretty much any large company that was around in the 1930s and is still in business today in Germany had dealings with the Nazis. The Volkswagen that exists today bears little resemblance to the company founded by Ferdinand Porsche, and had indeed nearly ceased operation following the war - and was revived by the British occupying forces. So the company owes far more to the British military than to slave labor, as far as it "existing today."

 

I don't even care that much about VW. I drove a 78 Super Beetle in high school, and my brother has a Passat. They make, and have made, good cars, and seem to be a very socially responsible company, the ghosts of its past notwithstanding.

That social responsibility you mentioned

Nope. And to suggest otherwise is really reaching. The name has persisted, but nothing else.

What do other ads, or the programs during which they're shown, have to do with anything?

Oh good, the victims and their families will be so relieved

Is there a single person living today and still associated with VW who was involved in exploitation of Jewish labor during WWII? Is sixty years enough separation? Good thing Wilco didn't sell a song to be used by the American Cotton Shippers' Association.

So history, and a companies place within it is of no consequence as well?

The company exists today because of that slave labor and its association with the Nazi party - doesn't that matter even just a little bit?

Who gives a fuck right - I mean, Wilco's on TV - what better way to enjoy them than during a Wheel of Fortune commerical break - right? Or right after that Paris Hilton McDonald's or whatever ad - it's no big deal.

"Volkswagen acknowledges the use of forced labor during the war. The company exploited an estimated 17,000 to 20,000 slave workers at its Wolfsburg plant to make military vehicles and munitions during the war, Mr. Graef said.

Volkswagen, which already has been threatened with a lawsuit by a German attorney over unpaid wages for slave laborers, next month is expected to establish a "humanitarian fund" for victims of slave labor. The volume of funds to be dispensed will be decided at a Sept. 11 board meeting and will be independent of any government-sponsored fund." - International Herald Tribune

Here's my last try. I do feel there's a distinction to be made between "valid" or "uncompromised" commercial use of songs and "selling out." Let's see if we can come up with some hypotheticals:

 

Putting some songs in a Bacardi commercial series while/after Jeff's in rehab: selling out.

Championing animal rights, working with PETA, etc., then selling a song to KFC: selling out.

Speaking out consistently against a president, then taking $$ to play at his second inauguration: selling out.

Licensing a couple songs for use by a car company that makes quality automobiles: not so much.

Bad example. I can't think of a more pervasive ad campaign, ever, aside from the Budweiser "wassup" ads. I haven't even seen one of the new Wilco VW commercials...

World News Briefs; Volkswagen Faces Suit Over Jewish Slave Labor

*Please Note: Archive articles do not include photos, charts or graphics. More information. June 13, 1998, Saturday

(By The New York Times); Foreign Desk

Late Edition - Final, Section A, Page 5, Column 1, 302 words

DISPLAYING ABSTRACT - Klaus von Munchhausen, lecturer at Bremen University, says he is suing Volkswagen, seeking payment of wages to 30 Jewish slave laborers who were forced to work for the company during Nazi era; action is a blunt reminder of Volkswagen's roots not only as Hitler's favored car company--the idea of a Volkswagen, or 'people's car' was a pet prewar project--but also as a key player in the Nazi armaments industry