sweetheart-mine

{"I tend to not gravitate towards the songs that conjure up the memories of panics and such. For the most part, I just pull them out when I need them."}

 

i hope i'm setting up this reply correctly. non-techie here.

above: that sounds healthy. i do gravitate to those emotionally riveting and beautiful songs (maybe partly because i'm relatively new to them), but i'm sure it would be wiser to save those particular songs for needful times, as you say. after all, there are countless others of his that don't directly appeal to the panicked and/or depressed and are just great and thought-provoking in their own right in various and different ways.

 

a potent one i left off my list: "radio cure": "cheer up / honey i hope you can / there is something wrong with me" and "distance has no way / of making love understandable." it's so gorgeous and troubling, and gorgeous again. there's an almost primitive and grabbing honesty in these songs that can make you want to keep experiencing them -- as magnificent songs, both lyrically and musically -- even though you aren't necessarily looking to experience, again, what he's talking about.

 

{"Waaaaaaaaay back when I was in college, I went through my first really bad depressive episode. I latched onto the "Little Earthquakes" album by Tori Amos. It articulated so much of what I was feeling, and I would listen to it ad nauseum. Once the depression passed, I couldn't listen to it for years because it reminded me of laying in the dark in my room, trying to decide if I wanted to live or die. I sold the CD. Next depressive episode, I bought it again. I must have bought and sold that CD ten times over the course of five years before it finally started to lose its effect. But even now ... This weekend I was watching "120 Minutes" on VH1 Classic and they played "Silent All These Years". I had to turn it off. The sad thing is, I really liked that album and I feel like I ruined it by using it as a crutch."}

 

it's frustrating, isn't it -- to ruin a beautiful thing by overusing it as a crutch. i've had the same experience, in music and, in the more distant past, in other realms. i probably didn't buy and sell the same CD ten times, though! that's humorous and poignant at the same time. but lots of music from the past comes to mind for me when i read what you wrote above, songs that i love but will forever bring sadness because of associations at the time, such as rick danko's "it makes no difference," one of many examples. it's still a mystery after all these years, that mix of pain and pleasure, which was present then and is now also with the attraction to wilco.

 

 

{"Thanks, but not quite. I only dump my guts to a few hundred people, not millions. :blush"}

yah, but still: high kudos!

 

 

{"Learned my lesson from the Tori Amos debacle. Seriously, though, just because you've connected with music created by an artist with mood issues that strongly resonates with lots of other people with mood disorders, doesn't necessarily mean you have a mood disorder, if that makes any sense. There are a lot of interviews with Jeff out there where he talks about how songs (and any art form, really) has a combination of meanings that come from what the artist had in mind and what the listener brings to it. Using "Theologians" as an example, one person might connect with it for the anxiety/depression themes it invokes. Another might respond strongly to the message about religion. Another might respond to that wonderfully jangly piano riff."}

 

yes, but i do have mood disorders (longtime panic disorder and depression). they've been well under control for years with a lot of work plus the right meds. you never quite forget, though, that you're vulnerable to all that. i agree with your reference to jeff's view of both the artist and the listener contributing to what makes the whole experience, which means it's unique for every person. a lot of us have many things in common (which we need) but also have the challenges, musically and otherwise, that end up asking for our involvement and, because of that, become truly unique (which we also need) and long-term powerful.

 

"{Having come from a similar upbringing as Jeff, in the same part of the country, I know I first connected with a lot of the regionalism in is writing. That still draws me in, too. It's hard for it not to, when I drive past the fountain from "New Madrid" almost daily. "}

 

well, you're seriously entangled there then. there's a lot to be said for that. i love "new madrid"! first heard it only a few weeks ago, i think via an owl download.

 

poppydawn, many thanks for baring your soul as you have. i've gained a lot of insight because of it. my best to you.

6. you wake up in the morning and for a minute believe you ARE jeff tweedy.

I wrote about this, to an extent, about a year and a half ago when I was fighting off a depressive episode. It's here, if you're interested.

wow, poppydawn, you have the courage of jeff tweedy -- to say exactly what you mean. thanks very much for this. your words literally had me feeling that fall, that slipping into a black hole, which i too know too well. you eloquently put into words a state that most of the time can seem impossible to define.

what you wrote does worry me some. i'm not consciously depressed, but if i'm not, why have i for many months been pulled into those songs so deeply that they practically seem to make up my life? on the other hand, i think your listening to AGIB that day because it expresses your state was wise, and that not letting yourself listen to it more than once that day was even wiser.

i don't think i've ever before had such a powerful relationship with music as this, which is saying a lot, because music of numerous different kinds and artists has been extremely important to me all my life.

Even "War on War" with the lines "You have to die if you want to want to be alive" and "You're gonna lose. You have to lose."

 

The last verse of Hate It Here, when he ends with "'cause I know you don't live here anymore". Jeff has such a way of breaking your heart but keeping a smile on your face it's really unique to his music. Your heart breaks for him but at the same time you relate to it, and are happy for him. He presents a narrorator that you can relate to, a narrorator that you feel you are, in a way that other writers wish they could. He brings out the best person in you, experiencing the worst feelings, emotions or situations. I don't want to go through the things that Jeff is talking about, but after hearing his words and his music, you almost want to experience them for yourself just to feel them. Most times though, at least for me, you already know and have felt exactly what he's talking about.

 

 

And of course, the bridge in Theologians. Listen to the version from Sunken Treasure. The lyrics, the way they fit into the music:

 

"I'm going away where you will look for me. Where I'm going you cannot come. No one is ever gonna take my life from me. I lay it down, a ghost is born"

"war on war" is one of his best and i love it in a million different ways. the only reason i didn't put it in the panic/depression-related list is that he sings it with such spirit, i feel completely uplifted by it and take it as a positive message, or at least mixed messages with positive results.

your mentioning the last verse of "hate it here" reminded me of "let me come home," which had me crying the first twenty or so times i listened to it. talk about naked despair and grief and confusion -- there it is. hey, it even has the word "panic" right there in it, just realized that now.

can you (or anyone contributing here) listen to the songs we're talking about every day? ever since i first heard them (last summer) i felt compelled to listen to them, over and over, every day. i loved them and had to do it. eventually it got so i couldn't tell anymore if they were making me happy/uplifted, sad, or both plus contemplative of course. a couple of friends recently thought they were making me more melancholy and suggested a hiatus. so i've forced myself not to listen to them the past few weeks, but it feels like something elemental, primitive, or fundamental to life is missing. maybe my friends were wrong . . .

yes, the "theologians" lyrics you mention give me chills. and the main version i listen to is from the "sunken treasure" dvd. beautiful performance -- as are just about all of them on that thing. actually, i bought that dvd just after i discovered wilco from the mermaid avenue songs. it was a magnificent introduction to jeff tweedy and everything he's about, including his ironic wit. the whole thing knocked my sox off. they're still off.

chompsky: well said!

I suffer from those kind of things too. I think the way Jeff brings together lyrics and music kind of, it makes you feel like how you feel when a Panic attack is over. Confused, relieved, scared, grateful and just very lucid. Wilco is a fantastic band but I do think people who suffer from these type of psychological issues can relate to the music. It's just very...good, as you all know.

 

Wow. did that make any sense?

yah, it did make sense, good job. especially sentences 2 into 3.

i wonder which songs especially pull at some of you who share these conditions with jeff tweedy, which songs bring up the emotions listed by sgtpepper64. so many appeal to me on other levels, like "war on war," "the thanks i get," "the ruling class," and, well too many to name. but some have pulled me deep inside the "confused, relieved, scared, grateful and just very lucid" state of being, and those are:

less than you think

hell is chrome

via chicago

pieholden suite

elt

reservations

how to fight loneliness

summerteeth

sunken treasure

at least that's what you said

impossible germany

side with the seeds

on and on and on

probably others, too, that i may not be listening to this week.

As someone who has dealt with some crippling, oftentimes life-threatening panic attacks and depression, it is greatly rewarding to read this full account of Jeff's personal story on his own issues and dilemmas.

same here.

i haven't counted, but is there an unusually high number of wilco fans who have dealt with panic, depression, or both? i mean, more (percentage-wise) than in the general population? i get that feeling, and even though it went unspoken for so long, whenever i read/hear jeff talking about this i wonder if it is a silent part of why some of us are so drawn to him and his turn of mind. some of his songs really take me to straight to melancholy, but they're so gorgeous, and familiar in a way, that i can't not listen to them.

And he was rather indignant about it, wasn't he? damn.

yes. if he doesn't pay, then i'm out some money but he's out some karma.

i think i'd rather be out some money. i will keep trusting people -- just

not that one!

Have you paid for that ticket yet?

thanks for asking, edie.

i'll answer for him: no, he hasn't. wednesday 4 a.m. was the third time in three weeks that he emailed to say it's on its way.

jesus christ, i don't think it's coming, do you?

no no no!!! That wasn't directed at you!! You have every right to be angry. I was just surprised to be reading it. I was merely addressing the situation......I'd be super pissed too!

 

I agree with Allison, pay up Tray.....with interest.

oops and thanks! yah, actually i absolutely hate making an issue of money of all things. not that i don't need it, i do, but by far

the harder part is how this kind of thing changes your trust in people. the world works on trust, in the end, when it works at all, and

for me to add to the lack of trust in the world is painful. don't want to join that club.

anyway, thank you again.

woah! craziness!

oh i know! i've turned out to be so "uncool"! bye now.

When will the lineup be announced, and what are the chances of Wilco playing?

i don't know, gabe. what are the chances that i'll ever receive the money for the new haven ticket you "bought" from me?

as you know, i didn't ask for the $16+ expense of overnighting the ticket to you on feb 21, but at this point, after several ignored

emails, i think i'd like that in addition to the cost of the ticket. or maybe you'd like to just donate $10 toward my medical bills

and consider the ticket a gift, even though i don't know you and was brokenhearted to miss my first wilco show.

folks, it's a hell of a drag to get kicked in the teeth for trusting people!

"there's so much less

to this than pants think"

thanks. i'm not going anywhere -- except to the p.o. with your ticket.

stay warm and enjoy the show.

Folks, this was to be my first Wilco concert -- and I have pneumonia! and cannot go.

The seat is front row mezzanine, which if you've seen the pics of inside the theater is a great place to be.

please email me at nantiques 9 @ gwi.net (without spaces of course).

anyways, discuss!

uh oh. stage fright.

So I was thinking, if a fairly good amount of people request a certain song, then it might have a better than average chance of getting played (in theory) my friends and I are all Bob Dylan's Beard fans, so anyone going to the New Haven CT show, (if your a fan of that song of course) go and request that

i don't mean to intrude on your thread, but ditto for Less Than You Think -- in case i haven't mentioned it enough already!

And yeah, those short people sure are rude. Actually, it was really weird because I'm not THAT tall (6'2") and there wasn't anyone much over 5'10" anywhere near me. I never stick (up) out of a crowd like that. I was feeling rather self-conscious about blocking people's view more than anything.

my husband is 6'3" and knows exactly how you feel. except for the twins part!

if i'd known this was going to happen, i'd have had kids myself.

Wow! I'm glad I read this thread - now I know what to call that ringing in my ears that I only hear at night ever since going to that Old 97's show about 4 years ago. The entire show was absurdly loud and in a tiny venue (The Viper Room) and to add to it, everyone around me was considerably shorter, so the sound wasn't being muffled by those around me but going unimpeded to my ear drums. I blame the Viper Room sound crew, not the band.

ouch! and shame on all those short people!

i didn't know what it was either, at first. i went to bed and heard loud peepers. puzzled, i got up and opened the window.

yup, peepers . . . only how can it be? it's winter, in maine! decided it must be some electrical wire out there gone crazy.

by morning, i knew it was me -- and only i was hearing them.

i hope you've got plugs for loud noise so you continue to hear the ringing only at night.

many thanks, everyone, and also my condolences. it's a nasty thing, one of those things you think will never happen to you. in one instant it can change, and you can lose both your silence and your hearing. you didn't have it, now you have it. poof, just like that. a friend of mine warned me about listening through my bose headphones at too high a volume, but i just brushed her off. i was hearing all kinds of nuances in the music that i hadn't heard before, and was enthralled. besides, i'd been listening to opera for years, how could jeff tweedy hurt me??? but i didn't have the headphones for the opera -- i got them when i discovered wilco. and i was stupid. i'm coping, after two months of this, but at first i was totally freaked out. no more silence, no more listening to music the way i want to listen to it. actually i'm using sort of cognitive techniques to adjust to this, because if i let myself get really upset about it, i'll be upset for the rest of my life, and i refuse to do that.

i appreciate all your thoughts on different kinds of earplugs. the sponge ones are good for everyday stuff, when i need the protection (and i don't always, so far), but i decided to get the ones recommended for musicians by bigshoulders kevin. someday i might afford custom ones, but in the meantime those look like the safest and sound-truest, and i like the choice in how much filtering of noise you want for any given situation. i've ordered them and will take them (plus sponge ones for backup) to the new haven concert. i'll report back on how i do with them -- if i can get that practical after the excitement of my first wilco concert!

be careful of your ears out there. have fun, but be careful. this stuff can drive you crazy if you let it.

a little advice needed here. this rotten condition first hit me about a month ago -- and i caught it from wilco. i was walking with my around the ear headphones, listening to a cd i'd just burned of songs from a variety of shows. so the volume was a little different for each song. suddenly one song started at waaaay higher volume than the rest, so high that it hurt, and i ripped the headphones off in pain. i didn't want to miss the song, though, so i slapped them back on my ears and got through it. how stupid is that? don't tell me, i already know.

ever since then, i've had this tinnitus that sounds mostly like 5,000 crickets or peepers screeching at a pretty high pitch. a few days i barely hear it; then it's kind of medium, enough to be really annoying; then for a few days it's really loud and i can hear it over everything, including any music, the tv, the car engine on the highway, and i struggle not to let it drive me completely crazy.

at first i thought, oh no how can i go to the concert in new haven! then no, i AM going, canNOT miss this. i've bought some of those spongy ear plugs. i'm sure i should wear those, but will they block out too much sound? do others of you have this problem, and do the ear plugs protect you from a spike in the tinnitus and/or do they kind of wreck the immediacy of the music at the concert? i have winter ear muffs that muffle the sound just a little, i'm tempted to wear just those so i don't miss the immediacy too much. i'm also tempted to wear nothing (on my ears, that is!), and assume the live music will make the tinnitus worse for a little while and then go back to its usual pattern.

anyone who knows anything about this or has experienced it, i could really use your advice. thanks.

My tickets came yesterday. I was screaming my head off!!! I'm a goob, I know

but you sound like a good goob.

you've probably waited for tickets numerous times. if mine hadn't come immediately from the

shubert for my first wilco concert, which it did, i'd have been screaming my head off in fear

and anxiety all this time!

tweedy 0 (but approximately 40 sunken treasure dvd viewings)

wilco 0

feb 24 will become 1 (yay!!!)

2008-infinity: as many as i can get to from maine.

think

feel

yearn

smart

ecstatic

sad

I've been screaming "Candyfloss!!" at every show I've been to for the last few years, to no avail.

 

Let's hope you have better luck getting your request played.

that must be frustrating. i figured i'd have about zero chance of hearing Less Than You Think if i try to scream it over 1600 people.

so . . . maybe jeff will get this message somehow somewhere.

i'm stuck (voluntarily) in a corner of the country, maine, and who knows how many more chances i'll get.

the version i listen to most is jeff acoustic, from an owl download, and it sounds like a small venue, maybe even a living

room show. but if they'll play it at the shubert i'll take any version they offer and be extremely happy!

Where would we be without Wishful Thinking? Good luck!

thank you very much, people. one reason i read this board is the wit of certain posters.

yah, you're right: Wishful Thinking! sometimes it pays to wish out loud:

years ago i lost my piano (long story), and in an ocean-chart store i said something wistful (or wishful) to my

husband about missing it -- we had no money -- and the water-logged guy behind the counter offered me the

piano his grandma had left him and drove it over to my house the next day. it can pay to wish out loud!

residency dvd's and cd's have to be fantastic.

go ***Less Than You Think**************