Central Scrutinizer

I don't know how many they are making, but only making 1000 doesn't seem sensible.

 

LouieB

The beginning of this thread says 5,000.

You're missing my point. I've said it a dozen times. It's not that we disagree, it's that you misunderstand what I'm saying.

 

You are discussing the relationships between fans, artists, art.

 

I am responding to the statement, "Dude, I hate it frat boys go to fuckin' shows, man."

I think it was because you brought up Chipolte on an empty stomach.

I like Chipotle. I don't care who else does, or whether they like it as much as I do, why they like it, or what their favorite item to order there is. Aside from the, "IfnoonegoesandthentheycloseOMGOMGOMGit'syourbusiness!!!!" retort, it's not my business.

 

I was alone the first time I heard Being There. I didn't need anyone else to tell me that day that Wilco was amazing. I was alone the first time I heard Leave Me Like You Found Me. I didn't need anyone else to tell me it was one of the worst noises put to tape, ever. I enjoy discussing these opinions with other people.

How did you come to try Chipolte? Did someone recommend it? Did you ask about it before you ventured upon it? The first time you sought it out. Why? It's not of my business, but you didn't happen upon an impromptu Chipolte. Someone developed the menu, decor, entrees, determined dining layout, how customers would be seated, waited on -- the dining experience all hammered out to entice you or people you know who would recommend meeting there. If you go with someone, and order different entrees, you may offer each other a taste.

Even if you went to Chipolte the first time alone, as you listened to Being There, you brought your whole range of experience -- based on advice (or repelled by bad advice), previous tastes, restaurant suggestions, food choices. How does one determine, for instance, that a jalapeno should be smoked and that it creates a whole other amazing flavor? Who would wander, uninitiated upon adabo sauce and say, "gee I want to put that in my mouth!"

I may not care why you eat there, but I may want to try it. You may suggest a band, or an eccentric performer and I may want to give him a listen. I enjoy discussing opinions with other people. The interplay changes your view of the world, and one another.

Whoever else likes Wilco, or why they like Wilco, or whether they are worthy of liking Wilco, or whether too many people like Wilco, is not my business. I enjoy chatting with other people who like Wilco, I enjoy going to shows, and I enjoy passing on Wilco shows to other people, but it's not my business to evaluate why anyone does or does not like the band.

 

ETA: To have written your post, you have to have misread my intentions in the post you quote. I'm not talking abou the artist/fan/audience relationship at all here. Rather, I'm addressing people who want to "keep" Wilco as their secret band, or people who complain that too many people like Wilco. I address the fan/audience/artist relationship in my previous post, but not that one.

I was taking your comments directly, and not considering them within the context of the discussion, and may in fact have been subconsciously addressing the two posts (although I thought I took them in order ). So I apologize if that was the case.

But to address your first paragraph, I think it is unavoidable that it becomes your business because you are interacting with other people and that interaction colors your views -- even if it's "how the intercourse did these idiots turn their computer on, let alone log into Via Chicago?!?"

The band has stated numerous times that they follow the boards occasionally, and I don't doubt that they read their own reviews. There is no way anyone can hear any criticism of their behavior and conduct that behavior again without at least thinking about the criticism. Nothing happens in a vacuum; I never said anything happens in a vacuum.

 

Simply, I disagree with the statement that W(TA) was consciously recorded as an album intended to reach a new market for the band.

O.K. On your simple statement I heartily concur.

To me, these sentiments (and I don't intend to speak for you, it's just easiest to quote you right now) are a mark of our terminal uniqueness. "I like Wilco, because the music speaks to *me.*" A lot of us can wrap our heads around sharing this music with the cool (and uncool) people on the message boards, a lot of people want to share this music with people in our life whom we value and respect, but to think that some 15 year-old gum-chewing, Blackberry-conjoined girl heard "You & I" on the radio and then suddenly just loves YHF - well, I think there are some people who would argue that she can't connect to Wilco the way they can.

 

Music, to me, is not much different than a spiritual experience; evaluating someone else's connection, when it has absolutely no relation to my enjoyment or connection[*], is none of my business.

 

[*] this is excepting crowd experiences, because I'm pretty sure there were rude people at Wilco shows back in 1995, too.

See, but I think this is exactly why it IS your business. The artist creates outside of you, and without audience and response (critique) it is an empty exercise. The artist would have no reason to leave his living room, no reason to open the door so that any sound could get out. It is how you assimilate the music that develops your taste (I like this, I don't like that, he sounds like the other guy). If it was not your business, or you had no intrinsic value in sharing your opinion or building and exploring your tastes, you wouldn't be on a band bulletin board; you wouldn't be commenting on others' views of what they hear.

It's not just the live performance. It is the community; how artists embody style, fashion, other media, slang/dialect/language, that creates, builds/destroys the artist-fan relationship. "Just a fan"? Would a man have written that song unaware of such a relationship?

Indeed that is what is great about Tweedy and this band because it is a dynamic, dysfunctional relationship for dysfunctional people. There are all sort of handles to grab hold for the music, from it's musical ramblings (like the cliche of the group of blind people describing an elephant). The band tests the tastes of its audience, but also embraces them, else the "alt-country" folk wouldn't still find kin with the "noise" audience, the folk "freak." Nor would they feel such affront when the band changes directions.

And because behind it all, it is a business. It is craft but it is also career, job, function. Supply and demand (I guess this goes back to the guy's comments). To quote Paul Simon, "got to keep the customer satisfied."

I have a really hard time thinking Jeff (or anyone) said, "You know that ending? I don't know, I'm playing the song live and everyone's going wild, and then that ending ... we lose the crowd. We should probably change the ending - don't you think this [plays a bit] will definitely hold people's attention better?" I think it's a lot more probable that Wilco, the band that recorded about nine strikingly different versions of C/Kamera, probably just tried the song with a different ending and it stuck.

You can visualize it however you want. The most likely explanation I can offer is that it's cross-intuitive: Wilco band members evolve the composition and performance of a song based on crowd reaction, fan reaction and their own reaction because the tastes of artist and fans has to be symbiotic to maintain the music community.

You think all the pissing and moaning of Nels Cline and his "shredding" don't get back to the band, don't pummel the artist enough that he/they don't take a step back, say "*% that" and take another tack?

In short, I think within the relationship of artist and fan, each are challenging/constraining one another. For either to put blinders on jeopardizes or eliminates the relationship.

To suggest that they changed a medicore end to a mediocre song because of a mediocre reaction from an audience at one or two shows, to make it even MORE mediocre in an attempt to really jazz the crowds up - one song - is silly.

If you are suggesting that a band trying out material live before recording is indifferent to the audience's response, that how a song is played is not affected by how people respond to it -- in person, as a live audience or comments on a fan site, that's silly.

I like W(TA) just fine, but the songs I dislike on there I've disliked since they first started playing them. I mean, unless the so-called "marketing campaign" started when they first played One Wing and Sonny Feeling two summers ago, there's no way I can agree with you. For me, the title track, album title and artwork are all awesome. This is probably some of my favorite Wilco album art, I think it's a fun spin on a self-titled album, and I enjoy that an album with relatively serious subject matter has a fun title track. The only thing the album lacks for me is a high enough quantity of awesome songs, which very well might change as the album lives with me for a while.

 

Let's see - A.M. is about 10 years old to my ears - that is, I purchased it in 2000/2001. I was hot/cold on that album for a while, and now I enjoy it very much. I'll bet 10 years from now, I'll feel about W(TA) the way I feel about A.M. today.

These are some great points, particularly on how the album was packaged.

I know a lot of people railed One Wing on the list when it was played live. I think it was definitely a case of the band seeing the song going one way, but fan response caused them to change up the song by the time it was recorded. I thought it had promise initially, but I think the arguments of thrashing excess were probably accurate. This may not make sense but I think the song has an unfinished feel, because it never became the song they envisioned because it wasn't one that fans seemed to want.

I approached A.M. later than at least half of the albums, and it never collectively resonated with me, but I love practically each of the songs -- some moreso live, obviously. I can't say that about W(TA). They're nice songs, fun songs for concert. But I'm waiting for what's next or still punch drunk from what preceded it.

I bet WTA wouldn't be so low on people's list if it were marketed better as an album. By that i mean, having a more serious album name, better artwork and lack of the title track. There are great songs on there and it flows well together, but it's packaged more like a b-sides project and subconsiously fans are processing it that way.

 

Marketing roots run deeper than you think.

I disagree with this. I think they marketed this album directly to its strengths -- a collection of songs without a common theme; a fun album (yes, acknowledging it has a "fun" song like BBN). Of all their albums this has the least flow to it IMHO -- competing perhaps with AM, which is more cohesive just because stylistically there isn't enough of a range to veer off course.

This current line up went from meticulous structure (SBS) which may have missed with listeners because it was more a sum-of-the-whole, while W(TA) may have missed with listeners because it was unstructured, parts-greater-than-the-sum.

Where would we be without wishful thinking, but I anticipate the band is planning and gearing up for its recording this summer and the result will be a deeper, more resonating effort that will defy attempts to market it, and succeed because of it.

Richie Havens - Tupelo Honey> Just Like A Woman

Richie Havens - Here Comes The Sun

I've always found Richie Havens so enigmatic. You watch the way he plays, and it's such a seemingly simplified style, yet it's a style that his voice wraps around. With those huge hands, you think he could play a much more refined style. But his is a percussive style, keeping time, a groove embodied in that thumb up and down the neck and that throbbing foot. His trance-like state when he sings, lost in the rhythm, in the words and so expressive. If I could categorize him anywhere, it would be along with Joe Cocker. I wonder if I would have ever survived a whole concert of his, but for an inspired song or short set (often times it's the same thing), he has me at hello.

"avant-roots" ? Is this yet another sub-genre name?

I'm very depressed, I had nothing but problems linking to either webcast. Last night it went dead after the pre-show music and I could not get anything to access -- multiple browsers, restarting computer. had a good internet connection. Nada

Very depressed.

 

...if I can help anyone else with local information, let me know.

How many bedrooms do you have?

Also, I am going to be the guy who wonders when Loose Fur gets added as a side-project performing. Yes, I am that guy.

Too late

I propose Via Chicago have a tent at this event.

Nope. For whatever reason it cut out at the start of Jesus, etc.

CDWAVE is a free program (google it). Super easy to split tracks.

 

http://download.cnet.com/CD-Wave-Editor/3000-2170_4-51481.html

Thanks for heads up. I'm on a Mac platform.

Will try to record tomorrow's show. We'll see how that works.

I was able to work the bugs out of the recording software I got (iRecordMusic 1.6) and it seemed to do fine. Now splitting tracks is my next great adventure. I tried splitting the first few in process but I need to find a better way.

agreed. i wish all the tours were "evening with".... hot damn.

Even the daytime shows?

I think one of the most interesting things about this project is that it gives each band member a venue to showcase their side projects before an appreciative audience. Jeff Tweedy has been accused of being manipulative, opportunistic and heartless in his treatment of former bandmates, but this is a credit to being a band with a capital B.

I also didn't see anything mentioned about Loose Fur ... just saying.

It's like Wilco fantasy camp!

You mean like some old geezers thrown together in a band with Ken Coomer or Leroy Bach?

I am having/have had problems with just about every webcast on wilcoworld.net. I've tried different browsers, rebooting. It's always cutting out, or just going dead. I wonder if it isn't a problem with comcast. I hate to even get my hopes up to try to listen. rats.

I think the recording software automatically mutes - at least that's what I hope. I got on firefox and can hear the audio just fine.

You're hearing something?

Me too. The second webcast clinched it for me to pony up $ for shareware. I figure tonight will be a trial run. If it works, bonus, but at least I can get the kinks out and give it another go tomorrow.

The software creates an AIFF file, then converts it into the selected format. Given the expected less-than-stellar quality, I'll save the AIFF but allow it to format in some lossy file. The idea of allowing the software to split tracks based on audio has me a bit unnerved. Here goes nothing.

I knew they were going to open with Wilco(the song) but I wasn't aware of the cute thing they do towards the end of it. I was glad I didn't because I got a kick out of it.

Aww man! You gave it away!