MattZ Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I suppose the reason that I keep flip-flopping on this is that its a very fine line. I know Repubs aren't the more moral party. What bugs me is that I have to listen to them tell me over and over again that they are and that they stand for family values, etc. thereby implying that Dems don't. So when one (or many) of the Repubs are shown to be croooks/cheaters/hypocrites/etc., its not so much that I am criticizing them for failing to live up to a standard that I knew was fictional all along. I am just happy that they are being exposed as the hypocrites that I knew they were all along. Again, Repubs paint themselves as the values-oriented party as an implicit attack against Dems which is patently ridiculous. The CLinton's marriage -- theater or otherwise -- is not an effort to attack the Republicans in any way. So the fact that Clinton cheats on his wife may expose him as a hypocrite, but doesn't quite have the same flavor to me as the hypocrites waving a "we're more moral than the other party" flag. Either way, like El El said, there is plenty to criticize the Repubs without getting into these issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 All i'm saying that there are plenty of legitimate issues to bag the republicans and the current administration...getting bogged down in these individual scandals makes you look as petty as the goofs you are trying to oust. rise above. For me it is not any individual issue but the sum total of a mass of issues that are alomost too numerous to keep track of. Including one I forgot to mention yesterday...the total defanging of the ethic committee by Hastert and Delay. These things add up and eventually top the levee and you have a flood of crap innundating the republican party. It is patently obvious to me that the hardcore republicans can live with sexual misconduct, graft, influence peddling etc... as long as it is their guy. If it is the other guy, get out of the way because they are commign to get him both guns blazing and they will paint every oneein their way with tht e same issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 It is patently obvious to me that the hardcore republicans can live with sexual misconduct, graft, influence peddling etc... as long as it is their guy. If it is the other guy, get out of the way because they are commign to get him both guns blazing and they will paint every oneein their way with tht e same issues. and the Dems don't do that at all? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Helluva fight here, ELF. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 and the Dems don't do that at all? I think the dems would be more willing to eat their own than republicans would. Remeber the republicans totally revamped the ethic committee when it appeared that people might start finding out how un-ethical they were acting. Remeber republicans, when they founnd out about Foley (Way back several years ago) kept quiet on the issue. Remeber Republicans tried to keep the Duke Cunningham sotry under wraps. The dems? Some hopped ont he Beat and strangle bill clinton band wagon. They stripped Jefferson of his positions. Will they always do it? Who knows if they don't act ethical, I will be more than willign to admit as much. But to date I can not think of a single period in history after Watergate (Which was bi-partisan, not a democratic withchunt) where the republicans have been willing to expose their own lapses. Time may prove me worng, but at this juncture I have no faith and notrust for the republican party. I fully believe that they put party over principles, party over country and loyalty to the party above all. Is that all republicans? Nope, but the lead4ership sets the tine and that is the tone I have heard for the past 25 years or more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WilcoFan Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I think the dems would be more willing to eat their own than republicans would. John, I agree with about 99% of what you same most of the time, but this seems naive. It's like you really believe that democrats are generally better? Don't confuse your agreeing with democrats on most issues with some kind of moral superiority. I just think wholeheartedly believing one party is better than the other is ignoring human nature. Both parties have had their share of transgressions and on the large part democrats haven't achieved enough in my mind to convince me that they really care about poor people, education, world peace. They are not agents of change and have done pretty well being in second place in Washington for the last 12 years. With that being said, I am in no way saying that Republicans are good. I've always maintained that putting all of your eggs in either basket will only achieve that status quo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 John, I agree with about 99% of what you same most of the time, but this seems naive. It's like you really believe that democrats are generally better? Don't confuse your agreeing with democrats on most issues with some kind of moral superiority. I just think wholeheartedly believing one party is better than the other is ignoring human nature. Both parties have had their share of transgressions and on the large part democrats haven't achieved enough in my mind to convince me that they really care about poor people, education, world peace. They are not agents of change and have done pretty well being in second place in Washington for the last 12 years. With that being said, I am in no way saying that Republicans are good. I've always maintained that putting all of your eggs in either basket will only achieve that status quo. Please, viewing the last six years as Rpublican rule and the impression that they leave me with is that they, until now, have been almost cult-like clannish in their behavior. I'm talking elected officials and rank and file, the punditry, the hard core 30%. Nearly everytime something came up the response was yes, but Bill Clinton... Instead of sayign yes, we need to fix, they habitually had to shift the blame. Are the dems perfect? Hell no, neither party is. But in my life time, and especially the past few years, the republicans have been mroe willign to over look their ugly stains than the dems have or more than they have allowed the dems. All one has to do is listen to the pundits Limbaugh, O-Riely, Hannity etc... and they set the tone. I have not heard one offical come clean until forced to do so by court order and even then the punditry defends the actions saying it is being brought forth due to sour grapes. etc... Theh take responsibilty for your actions party, which I believ in whole heartedly, has few , if any memebers, who will actually stand up and take responsibility for their actions. And I see none who will hold the others acocutnable for their actions. If Jefferson were a republican he would have kept his position under the premise of innocent until proven guilty, which I also believe in 100%. However the dems stripped him of his power which is the right thing to do. Strip him and then when the outcome is clear either re-instate or dispose. Nope, I stand by what I am asserting and until their behavior changes I will not. Back up claims of them not being willing to cover up with facts. Don't use Foley because he only got hammers after news came out and prior to that news coming out they did everything they could to keep it quiet. There may or may not be unknown situations going on right now withh the dems and if it turns there are and they have apparently covered them up, then I will re-evaluate my position on them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I came across this photo on the front page of a popular stock photo site.http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup.php?id=2090996Must've been where they found it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Notice in the Republican ad that they cropped out the man's wedding band. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 A last gasp from an organization - the New York State Republican Party - that is now about as relevant as the Women's Christian Temperance Union. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Notice in the Republican ad that they cropped out the man's wedding band. They also cropped out her eyebrows! OMGOMG Quote Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 i hate all of you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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