chuckrh Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 for those of you who haven't seen this, it is a must read. by the grace of God this doesn't affect Wilco but it is a cautionary tale. www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/magazine/universal-fire-master-recordings.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oil Can Boyd Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Yeah, I read that yesterday. I remember hearing about the fire but had no understanding of the extent of the damage to the archives. Really tragic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuckrh Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/25/magazine/universal-music-fire-bands-list-umg.html?curator=MediaREDEF the list of artists that lost tapes in the fire. no wilco, thank God 38 Special50 CentColonel AbramsJohnny AceBryan AdamsNat AdderleyAerosmithRhett AkinsManny AlbamLorez AlexandriaGary AllanRed AllenSteve AllenThe Ames BrothersGene AmmonsBill AndersonJimmy AndersonJohn AndersonThe Andrews SistersLee Andrews & the HeartsPaul AnkaAdam AntToni ArdenJoan ArmatradingLouis ArmstrongAsiaAsleep at the WheelAudioslavePatti AustinAverage White BandHoyt AxtonAlbert AylerBurt BacharachJoan BaezRazzy BaileyChet BakerFlorence BallardHank BallardGato BarbieriBaja Marimba BandLen BarryCount BasieFontella BassThe Beat FarmersSidney Bechet and His OrchestraBeckCaptain BeefheartArchie Bell & the DrellsVincent BellBell Biv DevoeLouie BellsonDon BennettJoe Bennett and the SparkletonesDavid BenoitGeorge BensonBerlinElmer Bernstein and His OrchestraChuck BerryNuno BettencourtStephen BishopBlackstreetArt BlakeyHal BlaineBobby (Blue) BlandMary J. BligeBlink 182Blues TravelerEddie BoPat BooneBostonConnee BoswellEddie BoydJan BradleyOwen Bradley QuintetOscar BrandBob BraunWalter BrennanJackie Brenston and His Delta CatsTeresa BrewerEdie Brickell & New BohemiansJohn BrimLonnie BrooksBig Bill Broonzy and Washboard SamBrothers JohnsonBobby BrownClarence “Gatemouth” BrownLawrence BrownLes BrownMarion BrownMarshall BrownMel BrownMichael BrownDave BrubeckJimmy BuffettCarol BurnettT-Bone BurnettDorsey BurnetteJohnny BurnetteBusta RhymesTerry CallierCab CallowayThe CallGlen CampbellCaptain and TennilleCaptain SensibleIrene CaraBelinda CarlisleCarl CarltonEric CarmenHoagy CarmichaelKim CarnesKaren CarpenterRichard CarpenterThe CarpentersBarbara CarrBetty CarterBenny CarterThe Carter FamilyPeter CaseAlvin CashMama CassBobby CharlesRay CharlesChubby CheckerThe Checkmates Ltd.Cheech & ChongCherDon CherryMark ChesnuttThe Chi-LitesEric ClaptonPetula ClarkRoy ClarkGene ClarkThe Clark SistersMerry ClaytonJimmy CliffPatsy ClineRosemary ClooneyWayne CochranJoe CockerOrnette ColemanGloria ColemanMitty CollierJazzbo CollinsJudy CollinsColosseumAlice ColtraneJohn ColtraneColoursCommonCookie and the CupcakesBarbara CookRita CoolidgeStewart CopelandThe CorsairsDave “Baby” CortezBill CosbyDon CostaClifford CoulterDavid CrosbyCrosby & NashJohnny Cougar (aka John Cougar Mellencamp)Counting CrowsCoverdale•PageWarren CovingtonDeborah CoxJames “Sugar Boy” CrawfordCrazy OttoMarshall CrenshawThe Crew-CutsSonny CrissDavid CrosbyBob CrosbyBing CrosbySheryl CrowRodney CrowellPablo CruiseThe CrusadersXavier CugatThe Cuff LinksTim CurryThe DamnedDanny & the JuniorsRodney DangerfieldBobby DarinHelen DarlingDavid + DavidMac DavisRichard DavisSammy Davis Jr.Chris de BurghLenny DeeJack DeJohnetteThe DellsThe Dell-VikingsSandy DennySugar Pie DeSantoThe Desert Rose BandDennis DeYoungNeil DiamondBo DiddleyDifford & TilbrookDillard & ClarkThe Dixie HummingbirdsWillie DixonDJ ShadowFats DominoJimmy DonleyKenny DorhamJimmy Dorsey and His OrchestraLee DorseyThe Tommy Dorsey OrchestraLamont DozierThe DramaticsThe Dream SyndicateRoy DruskyJimmy DuranteDeanna DurbinThe EaglesSteve EarleEl ChicanoDanny ElfmanYvonne EllimanDuke EllingtonCass ElliottJoe ElyJohn EntwistleEminemEric B. and RakimGil EvansPaul EvansBetty EverettDon EverlyExtremeThe FalconsHarold FaltermeyerDonna FargoArt FarmerFreddie FenderFerrante & TeicherFever TreeThe Fifth DimensionElla FitzgeraldFive Blind Boys Of AlabamaThe FixxThe FlamingosKing FloydThe Flying Burrito BrothersJohn FogertyRed FoleyEddie FontaineThe Four AcesThe Four TopsPeter FramptonFranke & the KnockoutsAretha FranklinThe Rev. C.L. FranklinThe Free MovementGlenn FreyLefty FrizzellCurtis FullerJerry FullerLowell FulsonHarvey FuquaNelly FurtadoHank GarlandJudy GarlandErroll GarnerJimmy GarrisonLarry Gatlin & the Gatlin BrothersGene Loves JezebelBarry GibbGeorgia GibbsTerri GibbsDizzy GillespieGin BlossomsTompall GlaserTom GlazerWhoopi GoldbergGolden EarringPaul GonsalvesBenny GoodmanDexter GordonRosco GordonLesley GoreThe GospelairesTeddy GraceGrand Funk RailroadAmy GrantEarl GrantThe Grass RootsDobie GrayBuddy GrecoKeith GreenAl GreenJack GreeneRobert GreenidgeLee GreenwoodPatty GriffinNanci GriffithDave GrusinGuns N’ RosesBuddy GuyBuddy HackettCharlie HadenMerle HaggardBill Haley and His CometsAaron HallLani HallChico HamiltonGeorge Hamilton IVHamilton, Joe Frank & ReynoldsMarvin HamlischJan HammerLionel HamptonJohn HandyGlass HarpSlim HarpoRichard HarrisFreddie HartsDan HartmanJohnny HartmanColeman HawkinsDale HawkinsRichie HavensRoy HaynesHead EastHeavy D. & the BoyzBobby HelmsDon HenleyClarence “Frogman” HenryWoody Herman and His OrchestraMilt Herth and His TrioJohn HiattAl HibblerDan Hicks and the Hot LicksMonk HigginsJessie HillEarl HinesRoger HodgsonHoleBillie HolidayJennifer HollidayBuddy HollyThe Hollywood FlamesEddie HolmanJohn Lee HookerStix HooperBob HopePaul HornShirley HornBig Walter HortonThelma HoustonRebecca Lynn HowardJan HowardFreddie HubbardHumble PieEngelbert HumperdinckBrian HylandThe ImpressionsThe Ink SpotsIron ButterflyBurl IvesJanet JacksonJoe JacksonMilt JacksonAhmad JamalEtta JamesElmore JamesJames GangKeith JarrettJason & the ScorchersJawbreakerGarland JeffreysBeverly JenkinsGordon JenkinsThe JetsJimmy Eat WorldJodeciJohnnie JoeThe Joe Perry ProjectElton JohnJ.J. JohnsonK-Ci & JoJoAl JolsonBooker T. JonesElvin JonesGeorge JonesHank JonesJack JonesMarti JonesQuincy JonesRickie Lee JonesTamiko JonesTom JonesLouis Jordan and His Tympany FiveThe JordanairesJurassic 5Bert KaempfertKitty Kallen & Georgie ShawThe Kalin TwinsBob KamesKansasBoris KarloffSammy KayeToby KeithGene KellyChaka KhanB.B. KingThe Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.Wayne KingThe KingsmenThe Kingston TrioRoland KirkEartha KittJohn KlemmerKlymaxxBaker KnightChris KnightGladys Knight and the PipsKrokusSteve KuhnRolf KuhnJoachim KuhnPatti LaBelleL.A. Dream TeamLambert, Hendricks & RossFrankie LaneDenise LaSalleYusef LateefSteve LawrenceSteve Lawrence & Eydie GorméLafayette LeakeBrenda LeeLaura LeeLeapy LeePeggy LeeDanni LeighThe Lennon SistersJ.B. LenoirRamsey LewisJerry Lee LewisJerry LewisMeade Lux LewisLiberaceLifehouseEnoch LightThe Lightning SeedsLimp BizkitLisa LoebLittle Axe and the Golden EchoesLittle MiltonLittle River BandLittle WalterLoboNils LofgrenLone JusticeGuy LombardoLord TracyThe Louvin BrothersLovePatti LovelessThe LovelitesLyle LovettLove UnlimitedLoretta LynnL.T.D.Lynyrd SkynyrdGloria LynneMoms MableyWillie MabonWarner MackDave MacKay & Vicky HamiltonMiriam MakebaThe Mamas and the PapasMelissa ManchesterBarbara MandrellChuck MangioneShelly ManneWade MarcusMark-AlmondPigmeat MarkhamSteve MarriottWink MartindaleGroucho MarxHugh MasekelaDave MasonJerry MasonMatthews Southern ComfortThe MavericksRobert MaxwellJohn MayallPercy MayfieldLyle MaysLes McCannDelbert McClintonRobert Lee McCollumMarilyn McCoo & Billy Davis Jr.Van McCoyJimmy McCracklinJack McDuffReba McEntireGary McFarlandBarry McGuireThe McGuire SistersDuff McKaganMaria McKeeMcKendree SpringMarian McPartlandClyde McPhatterCarmen McRaeJack McVeaMeat LoafMemphis SlimSergio MendesEthel MermanPat MethenyMighty Clouds of JoyRoger MillerStephanie MillsThe Mills BrothersLiza MinnelliCharles MingusJoni MitchellBill MonroeVaughn MonroeWes MontgomeryBuddy MontgomeryThe Moody BluesThe MoonglowsJane MorganRuss MorganEnnio MorriconeMos DefMartin MullGerry MulliganMilton NascimentoJohnny NashNazarethNelsonRick Nelson & the Stone Canyon BandRicky NelsonJimmy NelsonOliver NelsonAaron NevilleArt NevilleThe Neville BrothersNew EditionNew Riders of the Purple SageOlivia Newton-JohnNight RangerLeonard NimoyNine Inch NailsNirvanaThe Nitty Gritty Dirt BandNo DoubtKen NordineRed Norvo SextetTerri NunnThe Oak Ridge BoysRic OcasekPhil OchsHazel O’ConnorChico O’FarrillOingo BoingoThe O’JaysSpooner OldhamOne Flew SouthYoko OnoOrleansJeffrey OsborneThe OutfieldJackie ParisLeo ParkerJunior ParkerRay Parker Jr.Dolly PartonLes PaulFreda PaynePeaches & HerbCe Ce PenistonThe Peppermint RainbowPepplesThe PersuasionsBernadette PetersTom Petty and the HeartbreakersJohn PhillipsWebb PierceThe PinetoppersBill PlummerPocoThe Pointer SistersThe PoliceDoc PomusJimmy PonderIggy PopBilly PrestonLloyd PriceLouis PrimaPrimusPuddle Of MuddRed PrysockLeroy PullinsThe Pussycat DollsQuarterflashQueen LatifahSun RaThe RadiantsGerry RaffertyKenny RankinThe Ray Charles SingersThe Ray-O-VacsThe RaysDewey RedmanDella ReeseMartha ReevesR.E.M.Debbie ReynoldsEmitt RhodesBuddy RichEmil RichardsDannie RichmondRiders in the SkyStan RidgwayFrazier RiverSam RiversMax RoachMarty RobertsHoward RobertsThe RochesChris RockTommy RoeJimmy RogersSonny RollinsThe RootsRose RoyceJackie RossDoctor RossRotary ConnectionThe Rover BoysRoswell RuddRufus and Chaka KhanOtis RushBrenda RussellLeon RussellPee Wee RussellRussian Jazz QuartetMitch RyderBuffy Sainte-MarieJoe SamplePharoah SandersThe SandpipersGary SarachoShirley ScottTom ScottDawn SearsNeil SedakaJeannie SeelySemisonicCharlie SextonMarlena ShawTupac ShakurArchie SheppDinah ShoreBen SidranSilver ApplesShel SilversteinThe Simon SistersAshlee SimpsonThe SimpsonsZoot SimsP.F. SloanSmash MouthKate SmithKeely SmithTab SmithPatti SmythSnoop DoggValaida SnowJill SobuleSoft MachineSonic YouthSonny and CherThe Soul StirrersSoundgardenEddie SouthSouthern Culture on the SkidsSpinal TapBanana SplitsThe SpokesmenSqueezeJo StaffordChris StameyJoe StampleyMichael StanleyKay StarrStealers WheelSteely DanGwen StefaniSteppenwolfCat StevensBilly StewartStingSonny StittShane StocktonGeorge StraitThe Strawberry Alarm ClockStrawbsStyxSublimeYma SumacAndy SummersThe SundownersSupertrampThe SurfarisSylvia SymsGábor SzabóThe TamsGrady Tatet.A.T.u.Koko TaylorBilly TaylorCharlie TeagardenTemple of the DogClark TerryTeslaSister Rosetta TharpeRobin ThickeToots ThielemansB.J. ThomasIrma ThomasRufus ThomasHank ThompsonLucky ThompsonBig Mama ThorntonThree Dog NightThe Three StoogesTiffanyMel TillisTommy & the Tom TomsMel TorméThe Tragically HipThe Trapp Family SingersRalph TresvantErnest TubbThe TubesTanya TuckerTommy TuckerThe Tune WeaversIke TurnerStanley TurrentineConway TwittyMcCoy TynerPhil UpchurchMichael UtleyLeroy Van DykeGino VannelliVan ZantBilly VaughanSuzanne VegaVega BrothersVeruca SaltThe VibrationsBobby VintonVoïvodPorter WagonerThe WaikikisRufus WainwrightRick WakemanJerry Jeff WalkerThe WallflowersJoe WalshWang ChungClara WardWarrior SoulWashboard SamWas (Not Was)WarJustine WashingtonThe WatchmenMuddy WatersJody WatleyJohnny “Guitar” WatsonThe WeaversThe Dream WeaversBen WebsterWeezerWe FiveGeorge WeinLenny WelchLawrence WelkKitty WellsMae WestBarry WhiteMichael WhiteSlappy WhiteWhitesnakeWhite ZombieThe WhoWhycliffeKim WildeDon WilliamsJody WilliamsJohn WilliamsLarry WilliamsLenny WilliamsLeona WilliamsPaul WilliamsRoger WilliamsSonny Boy WilliamsonWalter WinchellKai WindingJohnny WinterWishbone AshJimmy WitherspoonHowlin’ WolfBobby WomackLee Ann WomackPhil WoodsWrecks-N-EffectO.V. WrightBill WymanRusty YorkFaron YoungNeil YoungYoung Black TeenagersY & T Rob Zombie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Griddles Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 So I read the article when it came out and I am at a loss really. I am not really sure why we should care? I am a librarian (by training) so understand the need for preservation, but I don't really think most people need to hear every out take of limp bizket or nearly anyone else. The article makes it pretty clear that only recently have record companies thought these were worth keeping and then only to endlessly issue 'remastered' versions of the same songs. Most people don't have the ear or equipment to hear the real difference between different formats or copies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 So I read the article when it came out and I am at a loss really. I am not really sure why we should care? I am a librarian (by training) so understand the need for preservation, but I don't really think most people need to hear every out take of limp bizket or nearly anyone else. The article makes it pretty clear that only recently have record companies thought these were worth keeping and then only to endlessly issue 'remastered' versions of the same songs. Most people don't have the ear or equipment to hear the real difference between different formats or copies. Music playback technology is still far less advanced then recording technology. You might have the records or CDs and a great stereo system, but none of us have ever heard any of that music the way it sounds coming directly off the tape. The most honest version of the music that exists, and the way it really sounds. Maybe someday we will be able to. And for that reason alone, those tapes are a huge loss and deserve to be preserved at least until that day comes. The Limp Biscuit quip was hopefully in jest, and is a cheap shot. In some cases, outtakes are actually full-length unreleased albums of original material that are as good as just about anything in an artist's catalog. For example, the recent John Coltrane "Both Directions at Once" release. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Griddles Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Music playback technology is still far less advanced then recording technology. You might have the records or CDs and a great stereo system, but none of us have ever heard any of that music the way it sounds coming directly off the tape. The most honest version of the music that exists, and the way it really sounds. Maybe someday we will be able to. And for that reason alone, those tapes are a huge loss and deserve to be preserved at least until that day comes. The Limp Biscuit quip was hopefully in jest, and is a cheap shot. In some cases, outtakes are actually full-length unreleased albums of original material that are as good as just about anything in an artist's catalog. For example, the recent John Coltrane "Both Directions at Once" release. But if we can't hear how it 'really' sounds, is that how it really sounds? If you can never hear something the way it was intended then it is no good to anyone. I would take a streamed Spotify version of Coltrane over one that I am only allowed to listen to on the world greatest sound system to 'really get the honest version'. Limp Bizkit mostly in jest. Though excluding full length unreleased albums from world famous artists, what is really lost? We have 'lost' thousands upon thousands of silent films due to many different causes. Does that make our current movies worse? Or more directly, when was the last time we watched a silent film? I am not sure that I have in the last 10 years. Even those famous artists, I can do without their outtakes, re-cuts etc. The released album version should be the definitive version that the artist agreed to was the expression of their work. And they listened on the playback equipment of the time. Many of the artists whose masters were lost were already lost to time. Libraries and archives the world over are home to countless works that, if examined with a critical eye should be discarded, but due the work being simply being from long ago are held on to for time immortal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 But if we can't hear how it 'really' sounds, is that how it really sounds? If you can never hear something the way it was intended then it is no good to anyone. I would take a streamed Spotify version of Coltrane over one that I am only allowed to listen to on the world greatest sound system to 'really get the honest version'. Limp Bizkit mostly in jest. Though excluding full length unreleased albums from world famous artists, what is really lost? We have 'lost' thousands upon thousands of silent films due to many different causes. Does that make our current movies worse? Or more directly, when was the last time we watched a silent film? I am not sure that I have in the last 10 years. Even those famous artists, I can do without their outtakes, re-cuts etc. The released album version should be the definitive version that the artist agreed to was the expression of their work. And they listened on the playback equipment of the time. Many of the artists whose masters were lost were already lost to time. Libraries and archives the world over are home to countless works that, if examined with a critical eye should be discarded, but due the work being simply being from long ago are held on to for time immortal. I didn't say never. I sad YET. We may get there with playback technology, and in anticipation of that, all recording tapes have value and should be preserved. As for the rest of your post, I'm sure your parents or grandparents have shown you photos of themselves from before you were born. What if there was a photo album of theirs that you never knew about that you found in a closet somewhere? You wouldn't be interested in looking at those pictures? Do you think those pictures would add to your understanding of them and what they experienced or achieved in life, or do you think those pictures are irrelevant because you've already seen the pictures they personally showed you? I think the value of these recordings is something along those lines. Also, you said this: "the released album version should be the definitive version that the artist agreed to was the expression of their work." Should be, yes, but we know for a fact that that is very often not the case. The released work of an artist quite often is not a reflection of what they would have liked to release, or what they wanted to sound like. Artists are forced into compromises all the time, and sometimes don't get any say whatsoever once they've recorded their voice or instrument. The original tapes very likely contain the true vision of many of those artists, but that vision was stifled by the demands of a record company person who felt they could sell more records if the artists changed the sound (or had their sound mixed/produced in a way they didn't like) to be more marketable. Thanks to this fire, there's a lot of stuff we're never going to know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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