tft3323 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I am currently looking at getting either the L.R. Baggs M1 Active or Passive pick-up on my Santa Cruz 000-12. Do any of you have any experience with one or the other, or can you offer an opinion on which way to go? As I understand it, the active pick-up has its own preamp and volume control whereas the passive has no preamp. I am looking for a mic'd sound -- i.e. no effects but a close representation of the guitar played acoustically. I guess with the passive it could still be played through a PA or through an amplifier, but it would sound better going through a preamp as well -- is this right? Sorry for my inexperience and thanks in advance for any advice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigWheeledWagon Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I am currently looking at getting either the L.R. Baggs M1 Active or Passive pick-up on my Santa Cruz 000-12. Do any of you have any experience with one or the other, or can you offer an opinion on which way to go? As I understand it, the active pick-up has its own preamp and volume control whereas the passive has no preamp. I am looking for a mic'd sound -- i.e. no effects but a close representation of the guitar played acoustically. I guess with the passive it could still be played through a PA or through an amplifier, but it would sound better going through a preamp as well -- is this right? Sorry for my inexperience and thanks in advance for any advice. I know a lot of folks around here swear by the L.R. Baggs pickups for acoustics, but if you're looking for a miked sound, I've found the only way to really accomplish this is to use an actual mic. I've yet to hear a pickup that sounds like a miked acoustic to me. I realize there are quite a few who would differ with me (hell, I think Jeff would probably disagree), but that's just how it sounds to my ear. I realize that the pickup is very convenient for performance purposes, but I would still recommend just miking your acoustic. Also, I would offer you the following cautionary tale: when I was a teenager, I had a pickup in my acoustic, and this idiot I was in a band with tripped over the cord and really messed up the soundhole by yanking the pickup out at a weird angle. Anyway, I realize that this post in no way answers your question, but I'm sure that somone on this board can give you their thoughts on those two products. I just thought I'd throw in my two cents. Good luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tft3323 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Thanks for your thoughts. Yeah the idea of possibly damaging the guitar has been one of the reasons I have put off doing this for some time. The guitar itself was a pretty big investment for me, and I'm a litle nervous about doing anything to tamper with the integrity of the instrument. Your point about a mic being the only way to really amplify the true acoustic sound is a valid one; like you said, the pickup is a matter of convenience which is what I need. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rileykill Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I use the M1A and it sounds great. The preamp does a very good job and the battery lasts for something like 1000 hours. It sounds better combined with a mic but it's a perfectly usable signal by itself. I have plugged DI into a PA as well as into my tube amp and both sound fine. It's far less expensive to go with the active pickup vs the passive/preamp combo and I can't really see any big advantages to the latter (assuming your acoustic gets a nice sound in the first place which shouldn't be a problem w/ a SCGC). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tft3323 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 That was my line of thinking as well -- that there is not enough difference in sound quality to warrant the investment into a passive pickup plus a nice preamp. That's also good to know that the battery life for the preamp is so long. Thanks very much for chiming in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jtrollmann Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I also play a SC 000 and added an Baggs M1 Active about 3 months ago. I play it through a small PA in coffee houses, etc. If you get the passive, you'll need a pre-amp. LR Baggs Co. claim their PARA DI is a great match for the passive. I love the fact that the Active is good to go straight into the PA and the volume control is handy. I have found the M1A is a pretty powerful pickup, heavy with a lot of mids. So I bought a small 7 band pedal eq (Boss GE-7) and plug into the eq, then into the mixer/PA. I lower the mids a bit on the eq and now get a nicely balanced tone. I keep the bass and trebles flat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tft3323 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 Thanks jtrollmann. Yeah, the volume control is a feature I think I would like to have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rileykill Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 The volume control is really nice. I use it all the time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I can't speak for the active as I have the passive. However, most venues have a DI box themselves negating your need to drop more money on one. Also if you're playing a tiny stage (with no box) with a desktop mixer, you can simply plug into the mixer from a 1/4" and adjust the gain accordingly. I would be curious to compare the sound quality of the two and their tendency towards feedback. And to ease your stress of damaging the guitar, the cable doesn't hang out of the sound hole on either model. It plugs into a jack where your button for your strap goes. If someone dumb trips over your cord they won't rip out your sound hole. It does require drilling a slightly larger hole where the strap button goes, but if you're scared to do that you can just give a guitar luthier forty bucks to do it, in exchange for a guarantee not to mess up your guitar. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigWheeledWagon Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 And to ease your stress of damaging the guitar, the cable doesn't hang out of the sound hole on either model. It plugs into a jack where your button for your strap goes. If someone dumb trips over your cord they won't rip out your sound hole. It does require drilling a slightly larger hole where the strap button goes, but if you're scared to do that you can just give a guitar luthier forty bucks to do it, in exchange for a guarantee not to mess up your guitar. So does the cable just run through a replacement strap button or is this a new hole? Either way, I would be uncomfortable modifying my acoustic in any way, even if it only involves drilling out the pre-existing buttonhole (and of course I prefer the miked sound anyway). I've got a '67 Gibson Dove with sentimental value, though, so it's important to me to keep it original. Otherwise, I would have replaced the adjustable bridge years ago. I'm sure that seemed like a brilliant idea to Gibson at the time, but it aggravates the hell out of me (except when I'm setting the action or intonation -- much easier in that case). Speaking of sentimental value, that's the only real reason I cherish the thing so much. For as much talk as there is out there about vintage Gibsons, the going rate for a 60's Dove isn't any better than a brand new one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jtrollmann Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 The Baggs M1 (Passive) comes with a 12 ft. Mogami cable with a 1/8 in. jack to be run out of the soundhole for temporary installation AND a 1/4 in. endpin jack, for more permanent wire installation, depending on your preference to drill for the endpin or not. The M1 Active only comes with the 1/4 in. endpin jack option. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 So does the cable just run through a replacement strap button or is this a new hole? Either way, I would be uncomfortable modifying my acoustic in any way, even if it only involves drilling out the pre-existing buttonhole (and of course I prefer the miked sound anyway). Really all it comes down to is taking an existing hole in your guitar where the strap button is (which is a little over 1/8" I believe) and turning that same hole into a slightly larger one (I think around 1/4"), you still have a strap button, but a cable plugs into it. I agree, there is nothing like a microphone on an acoustic guitar thats why I don't used the pickup much to record. Likewise there's nothing like spinning around and marching over to the electric guitar player in your band to stick your tongue out at him while he takes a guitar solo. The M1 passive has allowed me to do this, I believe the active has the same feature. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rileykill Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 There is a "vintage jack" available that fits the existing hole ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Choo Choo Charlie Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 There is a "vintage jack" available that fits the existing hole ... the LR Baggs M1A is an okay pickup. It's one of the more acoustic sounding soundhole pickups out there. I use one in a Martin hd28 and for plug n play gigs it will do you fine. For the nearest acoustic sound you can get in a pick up, try installing a stereo Trance Amulet system (basically a modern day FRAP system used by Neil Young). I installed one in my martin d42. most realistic and useable acoustic tone out there without using a mic. needs a little notching to avoid feedback in a live situation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tft3323 Posted April 1, 2008 Author Share Posted April 1, 2008 A new wrinkle...the guys at my local guitar shop here in Savannah (who I respect; these guys are working mucisians, not cheesy mega-store salesmen) are raving about the B-Band pick up. It has the built in pre-amp and a control for both volume and tone. One guy is using it on a Santa Cruz OM pre-war and another on a vintage J45. There is an under bridge and under saddle pick up -- nothing in the soundhole. They swear it is the most "acoustic" sounding pick up out there, and great for direct through the PA playing. I had gone in there ready to go with the Baggs M1A, and now it's back to the research! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
In a little rowboat Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 the LR Baggs M1A is an okay pickup. It's one of the more acoustic sounding soundhole pickups out there. I use one in a Martin hd28 and for plug n play gigs it will do you fine. For the nearest acoustic sound you can get in a pick up, try installing a stereo Trance Amulet system (basically a modern day FRAP system used by Neil Young). I installed one in my martin d42. most realistic and useable acoustic tone out there without using a mic. needs a little notching to avoid feedback in a live situation. FRAP is what Neil has (stereo as i recall)...there are a few modern day versions (all expensive)...K&K is generally considered the closest and most reasonable equivalent, pure western being the model i use (awesome)...most all of these types of ickups are prone to feedback but can be controlled as mentioned I use the M1a and K&K through a stereo jack live on my martin and couldnt be happier...your results will vary j Quote Link to post Share on other sites
In a little rowboat Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 A new wrinkle...the guys at my local guitar shop here in Savannah (who I respect; these guys are working mucisians, not cheesy mega-store salesmen) are raving about the B-Band pick up. It has the built in pre-amp and a control for both volume and tone. One guy is using it on a Santa Cruz OM pre-war and another on a vintage J45. There is an under bridge and under saddle pick up -- nothing in the soundhole. They swear it is the most "acoustic" sounding pick up out there, and great for direct through the PA playing. I had gone in there ready to go with the Baggs M1A, and now it's back to the research! have had 2 guitars with Bband systems, was clearly more acoustic sounding than, say, a fishman matrix, but live would often sound thin and would not give much string response...hit it hard, it sounds weak...depends on your playing style, but i found it had no balls...the bband uses a piezo-electris film which will wear over time and eventually sound shrill and unbalanced (see the many online reviews)...i ended up selling both bband equpt guitars i owned... Mixing pickups seems to be the best way to go...i go K&K pure western with M1a to 2 channels in the PA...terrific! As i mentioned before, in my experience, K&K transducers are the best for the body, Sunrise and Baggs M1a are the best soundhole pickups, Trance acoustic lens is wonderful but expensive Remember, which ever you go with, a proper EQ/preamp/DI is essential to live sound re-enforcement...Bagg para DI is a great option j Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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