Fairness Doctrine

[cryptique]

Democrats I know listen to NPR. Isn't that pretty much Liberal radio?

No. It's not conservative radio, but it's also not liberal radio. It's balanced, unlike virtually all other TV/radio news.

[bleedorange]

That's because it's the same fight, in essence - the struggle between those who wish to expand human freedom in the social context and those who wish to contract it.

 

That's why it's always hard for me to understand how someone can adopt the liberal point of view and want contract human freedom and liberty.

[Good Old Neon]

Every so often I catch 15-20 minutes of Michael Savage. He's pretty entertaining and interesting.

 

Listening to Michael Savage is about as fun and interesting as participating in a fucking Klan rally. He either, a.) is insane

[bjorn_skurj]

That's why it's always hard for me to understand how someone can adopt the liberal point of view and want contract human freedom and liberty.

Because we generally want to contract people's ability to fuck over their fellow man, which advocates like to call "laissez-faire economics."

[lamradio]

That's because it's the same fight, in essence - the struggle between those who wish to expand human freedom in the social context and those who wish to contract it.

 

You can look at this in so many different ways, but to me, the Confederates were today's true conservatives, and the Federals were today's true Liberals.

 

The Confederacy saw that the Union was getting too imperial and oppressive, much like England was before the revolutionary war. States were having their rights and basic freedoms taken away, and this went against the constitution. The Confederacy was basically fighting for what the Constitution was supposed to represent, individual freedom and states rights.

 

Today, conservatives want basically the same thing. Individual freedoms, and small un-opressive government.

 

Yeah, there was that ugly issue of slavery, but both sides knew it would die out eventually. Most confederates did not own slaves and never planned to. Robert E. Lee himself never owned a slave, and believed slavery was wrong and would die out eventually.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Not that the North was gung-ho about abolition as a whole, but you have to admit that waiting around and hoping for slavery to die out is incredibly immoral. You could make the argument that such a position would be conservative, though.

[lamradio]

but you have to admit that waiting around and hoping for slavery to die out is incredibly immoral.

 

You are correct on that, and that was really one of the main reasons the Union won the war. Lincoln knew that if he played the slavery card against the South, the Confederacy would never be recognized by other countries. But regardless of if the Confederates truly believed in slavery or not, as soon as Lincoln pulled out the slavery card (Emancipation Proclamation), the Confederacy was doomed..

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Lincoln pulled out the slavery card (Emancipation Proclamation)

You know, I know you are trying to be a realist and that that's the sort of thing that's generally encouraged in our society. I also realize that Lincoln had more than purely ideological motivations for freeing the slaves. You can't look past that he did free the slaves, though. Real people in real bondage and that sort of thing. Referring to it as "the slavery card" just seems incredibly trivializing.

[lamradio]

You know, I know you are trying to be a realist and that that's the sort of thing that's generally encouraged in our society. I also realize that Lincoln had more than purely ideological motivations for freeing the slaves. You can't look past that he did free the slaves, though. Real people in real bondage and that sort of thing. Referring to it as "the slavery card" just seems incredibly trivializing.

 

True.. I was just calling it the "slavery card" because from a strategic point of view, that's exactly what it was.. I'm not trying to trivialize slavery at all. The simple fact that Lincoln did free the slaves is worth the Union winning the war by itself, and at the same time it was a brilliant War strategy.

[Good Old Neon]

Today, conservatives want basically the same thing. Individual freedoms, and small un-opressive government.

 

That

[bleedorange]

That

[jakobnicholas]

Listening to Michael Savage is about as fun and interesting as participating in a fucking Klan rally. He either, a.) is insane

[cryptique]

Wrong.

Which part was wrong?

[Good Old Neon]

Wrong.

 

So that

[John Smith]

You are correct on that one. The hatred between the right and left has always amazed me. I do a lot of research on the American Civil War, and some of the things folks were saying before the war sound disturbingly similar to some of the things that are said today between the right and left.

 

Just recently a Missouri lawmaker made reference to the war of northhern agression when hammering some bill that was originating with the Obama administration. He apologized later for his choice of words, but those were his words and I think represent a fairly common thought pattern with a lot of people. I knwo when I lived in TX many people I knew felt that they were still an independent republic that consented to be part of the US and coudl leave at any time. Coming form the north these are alien thoughts.

[Good Old Neon]

Never been to a Klan rally. Tell me, what are they like?.

 

Try to visualize dozens of Michael Savage sound-alikes ensconced in the most luxurious full-length butter smooth sheet ensembles imaginable and you

[NightOfJoy]

I

[NightOfJoy]

I believe its good to keep an ear on your enemy.

 

Thats why I read the Wall St Journal every day.

[bleedorange]

So that

[Atticus]

I knwo when I lived in TX many people I knew felt that they were still an independent republic that consented to be part of the US and coudl leave at any time. Coming form the north these are alien thoughts.

 

I've lived in Texas for 33 of my 37 years and I've never once met someone who espoused this view.

[NightOfJoy]

That

[bleedorange]

I've lived in Texas for 33 of my 37 years and I've never once met someone who espoused this view.

 

I've lived here for 31 years and have never met anyone who shares that view either. But, as I've learned and been told on this board, that doesn't mean anything. Apparently, there's this whole subset of terrible people I've been fortunate enough to never run across but still represents a majority or substantial number.

[NightOfJoy]

I've lived in Texas for 33 of my 37 years and I've never once met someone who espoused this view.

 

Whats with the whole "Dont mess with Texas" thing?

[cryptique]

I believe it was Bill Clinton that signed DOMA into law. So that charge has already been led.

Misleading.

 

Clinton signed it, but it was a Republican bill passed in a Republican-dominated Congress (both houses).

 

The GOP brought it to the floor in an election year, and the spineless Democrats went along with it because they feared that their opponents would make it a huge issue in the fall '96 campaign. Clinton probably signed it for similar reasons (in September '96, a little over a month before the election).

 

There was exactly one Republican vote against the measure, and that came from the first openly gay Republican representative (who was only open because he had been outed on the House floor by Bob Dornan), who then did not seek re-election in '96.

 

The Dems' capitulation on this issue is just one more reason why I cannot call myself a Democrat.

 

The denial of marriage rights to gays is part of the Republican party's official platform. The Democratic platform expresses opposition to the DOMA (too bad the Democrats themselves didn't do so in '96).

[Good Old Neon]

For one, you use "conservative republicans" as if those two terms are inextricably linked. They're not. Secondly, I believe it was Bill Clinton that signed DOMA into law. So that charge has already been led.

 

Where is religion creeping into the democratic process or where is it being influenced by conservatives to creep into the democratic process?

 

And any regulations placed on corporations regarding environmental policy need to be carefully balanced with the economic consequences those regulations may have. I'm not sure I see how this is a bad thing.

 

Have you been living in a literal vacuum for the last 8 plus years?