R.E.M. vs Wilco

[Sir Stewart]

Bill Berry left because he hated touring

 

I thought he left because part of his brain exploded.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I thought he left because part of his brain exploded.

 

He took a break because part of his brain exploded, but he came back to finish the tour. Most (all?) of the U.S. dates on the Monster tour were post-aneurysm, and they cut NAIHF after the Monster tour ended. The aneurysm probably played a part in his decision, but Berry actually had a long-standing distaste for life on the road.

[auctioneer69]

I think R.E.M.'s decline is are pretty easily explained: they wore themselves out. Look at their touring schedule from, say, 1981 through 1989. They took 1988 off pretty much in terms of touring (although they recorded Green then), but otherwise toured and recorded non-stop. They released one classic record after another, and played well over 100 dates per year. From 1981 to 1986 they hardly ever took as much as a month off. See: http://www.remtimeline.com/

 

They really were the hardest-working band in the world for a few years there, and by the time their I.R.S. deal ran out, they were exhausted. They took it slow for a few years, put out a few more classic records (Out of Time and Automatic) while hardly playing live at all, then did one more Monster tour and one more classic record (NAIHF), then that was pretty much it. Bill Berry left because he hated touring, and the other guys have pretty much treated R.E.M. as a side project ever since.

 

Stipe spends his time making arty films and being a celebrity, while Mills plays golf or something, so that only Peter Buck is a real full-time musician any more. They used to spend all their time together on the road playing and writing songs, and now they don't. It's hard to blame them, because their early years were absolutely brutal, but their art has certainly suffered. A part-time band will never be as good as a full-time band. They still write decent songs here and there, and they can still bring it in the live setting, but they're not the same band any more by a long stretch.

 

I think that's a pretty spot on analysis! It pains me to say it slightly but REM should have probably split up after Bill Berry left. 4 records since 1995 is a paltry output. I really like and admire "Up", like "Accelerate", tolerate "Reveal" and hate "Around The Sun". But REM lost their balance when Bill Berry left. In addition to being a great songwriter (e.g.: "Perfect Circle") he was the member who with Peter Buck encouraged the band to do things quickly in the studio and who counterbalanced Mike Mills and Michael Stipe's tendency to overwork or overproduce songs. (The only long-standing band who have been able to release so few records and still maintain their success is U2. I don't think many would argue that their post "Pop" material ranks with their best material but they were a far bigger band than REM and have made a deliberate effort at mainstreaming their sound in the last 10-12 years.)

[jakobnicholas]

I think that REM also continually sought out commercial success (top 40 airplay)... more than Wilco ever has (not to say that they won't in the future). I think that you saw REM make a concerted effort in the late 80's to try and make a top 40 hit song.... Both with most of the music on the "green album" and then obviously succeeding with Losing my Religion. So I think it is a hard comparison at this point, because Wilco has yet to give up their scruples for a hit record... I think that REM did... I think that REM finally said "ok, we need to make some money at this..." and they released "Out of Time" (you think that album title was a coincidence?? Ha

 

my 2 pennies!

 

 

I don't think it's ever been R.E.M.'s intent to "try and make a top 40 hit song". They had a goal, like all bands, for as many people as possible hearing their music. If that happened to mean a song of theirs cracked the Top 40, then that's only a good thing because that means more people will hear it. The guys in R.E.M. definitely liked a good poppy sound. But making pop records shouldn't mean that a band is selling out. Had Big Star's first album had 3 top-40 hits, would that lessen the greatness of that record? I say definitely no.

 

Some on this board mention how they stopped liking R.E.M. after Life's Rich Pageant. Well it was that album that had "Fall On Me", a pretty big hit. Musically, most of that album is very pop sounding, but Stipe's lyrics were still pretty vague and mysterirous.

 

Did R.E.M. start getting bad with Document because of "The One I Love" and "It's The End of The World..."? Was R.E.M. in decline because their music wasn't any good, or because they had 2 big hits and made the cover of Rolling Stone?

 

Personally, I'd put Green, Out of Time and Automatic in the same league as early R.E.M. records.

 

 

As for Wilco not seeking out commercial success....PLEASE! The VW ads, the various appearances on all sorts of radio and tv shows, songs in movie soundtracks and tv programs, etc. I think actually that Wilco has used R.E.M.'s model of how to build a fan base and how to get their music heard. I don't think either band is guilty of "giving up their scruples". To me, they both seem to have always made the music they wanted to make, with the goal of as many people hearing it as possible.

[Moss]

 

Some on this board mention how they stopped liking R.E.M. after Life's Rich Pageant. Well it was that album that had "Fall On Me", a pretty big hit. Musically, most of that album is very pop sounding, but Stipe's lyrics were still pretty vague and mysterirous.

 

Personally, I'd put Green, Out of Time and Automatic in the same league as early R.E.M. records.

 

 

It's all subjective but fun to debate anyways:

 

The original debate is comparing Wilco and REM. I never stopped liking REM, there are songs I like on every record. I just think as a rule anything after LRP does not compete with Wilco's albums. I don't even kind of get excited when REM puts out a new album, but I still do for Wilco.

 

I think Wilco's post YHF work is as good (better in the case of AGIB) as the pre YHF work, I know that is contrary to many (most?) people on this board.

 

No way Green, Out of Time and Automatic are in the same league as the early records.

[jakobnicholas]

It's all subjective but fun to debate anyways:

 

The original debate is comparing Wilco and REM. I never stopped liking REM, there are songs I like on every record. I just think as a rule anything after LRP does not compete with Wilco's albums. I don't even kind of get excited when REM puts out a new album, but I still do for Wilco.

 

I think Wilco's post YHF work is as good (better in the case of AGIB) as the pre YHF work, I know that is contrary to many (most?) people on this board.

 

No way Green, Out of Time and Automatic are in the same league as the early records.

 

 

I guess I have hard time understanding why Life's Rich Pageant specifically is the cutoff for when R.E.M. starting going bad. I like LFR better than the next album, Document, but not by much. Document is very solid and doesn't seem quite the jump that I can understand some thinking R.E.M. took with Green (though I disagree....Green is lyrically more direct and straight-forward, but has similar pop sounds existent on previous records. If Green only had 'World Leader Pretend', 'Wrong Child', 'Orange Crush' and the 'Untitled 11th song' I'd still like the album.)

 

 

Your comment about Wilco's post-YHF stuff being as good as the pre-YHF stuff I just disagree with in a huge way. But yes, it's fun to talk about.

[cryptique]

Automatic is their best album. By a long shot.

In your opinion, of course. There are a lot of people, myself among them, who would argue that it's no better than their fifth best album.

[SeattleC]

But REM lost their balance when Bill Berry left. In addition to being a great songwriter (e.g.: "Perfect Circle") he was the member who with Peter Buck encouraged the band to do things quickly in the studio and who counterbalanced Mike Mills and Michael Stipe's tendency to overwork or overproduce songs.

 

 

Peter Buck discusses how much he likes working with Robyn Hitchcock in the DVD 'Sex, Food, Death.... and Insects' (how's that for a title) for the very reason that things happen quickly in the studio. I would guess that's part of what he likes about working with the Minus 5 and his other one off projects as well.

 

I do think things have improved again with Accelerate. I would bet that the studio time for that went way down from some of the previous albums. We'll see where it goes from here (in a few years, I expect)

[m_to_the_c]

The verses of "Unseen Power..." speak to exactly what makes both bands great. Many bands would be wise to follow this template.

 

While I dug into Up when it was released, this made me appreciate it more. I have always thought there is a great album in there, somewhere!

http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/playing-god-with-rems-up.htm

 

The last time I was simultaneously interested in both bands latest output was that same period, which coincided with Summerteeth.

Both albums remind me of being jetlagged out of my skull with my family in a rented minivan, chasing the sun from Germany to Switzerland. Coincidentally, my dad met Wilco in at the Zurich airport on their way home from the REM tour!

[Jesusetc84]

Wilco vs. R.E.M. for me:

 

 

01. R.E.M.- Automatic For The People

02. Wilco- Yankee Hotel Foxtrot

03. R.E.M.- Murmur

04. Wilco- Summerteeth

05. R.E.M.- Reckoning

06. R.E.M.- Document

07. R.E.M.- Life's Rich Pageant

08. Wilco- A Ghost is Born

09. Wilco- Being There

10. R.E.M.- Green

11. Wilco- Wilco (The Album)

12. R.E.M.- New Adventures in Hi-Fi

13. R.E.M.- Fables of Reconstruction

14. R.E.M.- Accelerate

15. R.E.M.- Out of Time

16. R.E.M.- Up

17. Wilco- Sky Blue Sky

18. R.E.M.- Monster

19. R.E.M.- Reveal

20. Wilco- A.M.

21. R.E.M.- Around The Sun