Mass shooting at Miliatry base

[Guest Speed Racer]

And then there's Cryptique, who's good with words.

[auctioneer69]

I'll stop here, but that's the whole point I'm trying to make. Capital "T" terrorist = Muslim-ish extremists from Very Evil Places we happen to be at war with right now. Regular "terrorists" = lone gunman and people who bomb shit becarse they hate Amurakah, and people who are whiter than Alan Thicke, hadn't spoken to a soul other than his mommy in the past ten years and was chanting "LOLLIPOPS!" as he killed his victims. That's all I was trying to say.

 

Isn't the term Mass Murderer sufficient for now? From the early reports he seemed like a very conflicted, tortured soul. When labels are tossed around indiscriminately they lose their meaning. And instead of pausing to mourn the terrible loss of life and then taking an even longer time to find out why this happened people waste time in pointless debates like this.

[jff]

Dammit all. It's official. I am whiter that Alan Thicke (circa that magazine cover, anyway).

[Sir Stewart]

cryp - your usage of "assumes" in your first sentence is key. Dick Ctionary would disagree with what you're saying.

Agreed we're arguing semantics to an extent, but I have no problem with labeling anyone who inflicts terror a terrorist.

[Guest Speed Racer]

people waste time in pointless debates like this.

 

Again, that's the privileged distinction of "people on the internet discussing an event before we have all the facts" v. "people who are actually investigating the crime and not engaging in pointless debates."

[Sir Stewart]

Again, that's the privileged distinction of "people on the internet discussing an event before we have all the facts" v. "people who are actually investigating the crime and not engaging in pointless debates."

 

Yep. Also: "people who are not directly mourning any of the victims in this tragedy".

[Guest Speed Racer]

I have no problem with labeling anyone who inflicts terror a terrorist.

 

The only reason why I even brought up the disctintion was because Jules implied twice (the latter more overtly than the first) that the gunman's Muslim faith played a role, as if (once more) having a Lutheran gunman would not have made it terrorism.

[cryptique]

cryp - your usage of "assumes" in your first sentence is key. Dick Ctionary would disagree with what you're saying.

Agreed we're arguing semantics to an extent, but I have no problem with labeling anyone who inflicts terror a terrorist.

Well, then instead of "assumes," how about "denotes"?

 

By your definition, Wes Craven is a terrorist.

[Good Old Neon]

The US (and its proxies) has spread terror throughout the globe, on countless occasions, on scales both large and small - are we a terrorist organization?

[cryptique]

The US (and its proxies) has spread terror throughout the globe, on countless occasions, on scales both large and small - are we a terrorist organization?

I think it wouldn't be too hard to divine my answer to that question, but it's probably something to be discussed in a whole other thread, if at all.

[Sir Stewart]

By your definition, Wes Craven is a terrorist.

 

Okay, I'm probably wrong.

[cryptique]

Okay, I'm probably wrong.

Meh. I exaggerated to make a point, perhaps unfairly.

[Sir Stewart]

Meh. I exaggerated to make a point, perhaps unfairly.

 

Nah, I checked the definition. I was the one bleating about the dictionary definition. I was wrong.

Either way, I doubt we feel differently about how much this incident sucks all kinds of ass.

[cryptique]

Either way, I doubt we feel differently about how much this incident sucks all kinds of ass.

Complete agreement, yup.

[cryptique]

...and now we have an office shooting in Orlando. What the fuck is wrong with people?

[bjorn_skurj]

That not uniquely American combination of mental illness and easy access to firearms.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

The term "terrorism" assumes an agenda and/or intent behind the act of violence, usually political in nature.

 

Just because some bastard yells "god is great" before he starts shooting a bunch of people (regardless of the language used or the god referred to) that doesn't automatically make it terrorism. It could just as easily be a random nutjob with an axe to grind, deciding to yell something to make his act of mass murder seem like it's motivated by something other than being an evil douchebag.

 

Sadly, the label matters ... and it's too early to apply one here. Let's wait and find out what we can from the douchebag himself, and let's also not rush to cry "terrorism!" just because someone claims he heard him shout "Allahu Akbar" before shooting. People claimed they heard the Columbine murderers say stuff too, which later turned out to be bullshit, but which helped certain parties advance their own agenda.

 

If we grant this fucker the label "terrorist" too easily, we risk elevating his status among those who aspire to be terrorists themselves, and we let him seize a measure of glory (malevolent though it is) that he would not otherwise enjoy as a mere lunatic mass murderer.

 

And if the reports that he had come under scrutiny for posting on an internet forum about suicide bombing and the like are true?

 

The US (and its proxies) has spread terror throughout the globe, on countless occasions, on scales both large and small - are we a terrorist organization?

 

Not unless we put a nice English school teacher on trial for naming a teddy bear Jesus.

[Guest Speed Racer]

And if the reports that he had come under scrutiny for posting on an internet forum about suicide bombing and the like are true?

 

Then he was a lone gunman who sympathized with, but did not belong to, extremist groups. I can go on for hours about how much I love Wilco, support Wilco, sympathize with Wilco, and play Wilco songs on my guitar, but that does not make me a member of the band, nor does it give me access to their money, strategies and inside information, and it should not in any way provide me with more attention than I deserve for just being me.

[bjorn_skurj]

Y'know, it's not like this dude is the first crazy person to ever be in the U.S. Army.

[Good Old Neon]

Not unless we put a nice English school teacher on trial for naming a teddy bear Jesus.

 

The word "witch" comes to mind.

 

As cryptique pointed out, this is probably not the time or the place, but if we were to judge our own country’s actions by the same standards we use to judge others, we’d probably find ourselves near or at the top of the list of countries who engage in or sponsor terrorism.

[Guest Jules]

As cryptique pointed out, this is probably not the time or the place, but if we were to judge our own country’s actions by the same standards we use to judge others, we’d probably find ourselves near or at the top of the list of countries who engage in or sponsor terrorism.

Where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, you've posted it about a thousand times.

[Tweedling]

Where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, you've posted it about a thousand times.

 

Then he was a lone gunman who sympathized with, but did not belong to, extremist groups. I can go on for hours about how much I love Wilco, support Wilco, sympathize with Wilco, and play Wilco songs on my guitar, but that does not make me a member of the band, nor does it give me access to their money, strategies and inside information, and it should not in any way provide me with more attention than I deserve for just being me.

If they asked you, would you join the band?

[Good Old Neon]

Where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, you've posted it about a thousand times.

 

A similar remark could be made regarding your reply.

[Guest Speed Racer]

If they asked you, would you join the band?

 

Nope. That's also not at all relevant to the gunman's motivations.

[Tweedling]

Nope. That's also not at all relevant to the gunman's motivations.

I was not implying those were his motivations......I was just wondering. I know I would.