This is my HS alma mater...

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Post/avatar.

 

 

 

I always thought that picture was silly.

 

Woody Guthrie's guitar never killed anybody.

[D-Dogg]

Do you question the accuracy of the information? Does its method of being found somehow invalidate it? And lastly, are you OK?

 

Apparently you did not read this whole thread.

 

I do not question the accuracy.

Crime on the most part has declined throughout the US.

 

I am in favor of keeping our doors wide open, but fences high.

 

I am smooth.

[futureage1]

Another thread and another debate that completely misses the larger points. The drug wars in South America do contribute to the violence in Phoenix,but, that is not even half of the people caught trying to cross the border. Now, what would drive these other people, not involved with drug trafficking, to still cross our borders? Could it be the free trade agreements that are in place in their respective countries? Free trade does not build other nations up, but exploits them, which the statistics for illegal immigration into the USA, readily back up.

 

In case you didn't notice, the EU is collapsing right now, even after throwing a trillion dollars at the "PIG" nations this week. France and Germany are threatening to pull out of the EU and stop using the EURO altogether. Mexico is on the verge of collapsing and many would argue it already did last summer when the US sent in troops to Mexico City.

 

Globalization doesn't work and is a flat failure and until people recognize that fact and demand safeguards and to do away with the free trade agreements, expect nothing to change and for it to get worse. Has it been worth it? Are people forced to crawl through the weeds,in the middle of the night, in pursuit of a decent life the beneficiaries of these policies?

 

This Arizona law is a ploy to get the National ID passed. I know it is just another coincidence that the former Arizona Governor now runs Homeland Security, but read the Immigration "reform" Bill to see the law that will go into effect once it is passed. This is for everyone, not just immigrants. Now, if you support this police state bullshit, it doesn't make you compassionate or progressive, instead, it makes you the opposite, since you are,in effect, supporting slave labor and working conditions beyond anything you could imagine. But,instead of talking about the free trade policies, the propaganda masters have you trained like seals, engaging in the debates that have nothing to do with the larger issues.

 

And if you didn't know that Phoenix has become something of a war zone, over the last couple of years, with a lot of abductions right out of people's homes, then you have no business calling other people out, since you have no idea what you are talking about. It is you who should be questioning the news sources you read if they never bothered to mention the kidnappings and murders that have overrun Phoenix specifically and Arizona in general. But go ahead and recite the talking points, don't bother to actually think about what causes people to flee their countries. And if you do support globalization, then put your money where your mouth is, and give up half your salary,since Americans are so overpaid. But my guess is, it's everyone else who is overpaid, and, not you, which, is as laughable as the Tea Party complaining about "entitlements" as they collect Social Security. The race to the bottom is great isn't it?

[D-Dogg]

Ok I will bite.

 

Another thread and another debate that completely misses the larger points. The drug wars in South America do contribute to the violence in Phoenix,but, that is not even half of the people caught trying to cross the border. Now, what would drive these other people, not involved with drug trafficking, to still cross our borders? Could it be the free trade agreements that are in place in their respective countries? Free trade does not build other nations up, but exploits them, which the statistics for illegal immigration into the USA, readily back up. People have been coming to this country since um well it started several hundred years ago, because of the chance for a better more free life. Free trade does not exploit people. Government oppression, bribery and not enforcing laws exploit people. Free trade between countries needs a lot more work. I tend to look at free trade with United States as the example. If each state had their own trade laws, rules and regulations trade and prosperity would be quite inhibited. If the people of the US were not allowed to freely migrate from one state to another for work or leisure growth would for sure be retarded. However with a free trade agreement between all the separate states with the open door policy for foreigners, the US as a whole has experienced great growth

 

In case you didn't notice, the EU is collapsing right now, even after throwing a trillion dollars at the "PIG" nations this week. France and Germany are threatening to pull out of the EU and stop using the EURO altogether. Mexico is on the verge of collapsing and many would argue it already did last summer when the US sent in troops to Mexico City.

 

EU is most definitely fucking up, but free trade and capitalism is not the reason. Many of those countries including Greece still fight the invisible hand, and rely on Government for full support. "The central cause is not the euro, even if it has meant Greece can't depreciate its own currency to ease the economic pain. Budget deficits and debt are the real problems; and these stem from all the welfare benefits (unemployment insurance, old-age assistance, health insurance) provided by modern governments." R. Samuelson - The Quote Can Be Found here

 

 

Globalization doesn't work and is a flat failure and until people recognize that fact and demand safeguards and to do away with the free trade agreements, expect nothing to change and for it to get worse. Has it been worth it? Are people forced to crawl through the weeds,in the middle of the night, in pursuit of a decent life the beneficiaries of these policies?

 

Free Trade does work and "is never more necessary—or vulnerable—than in times of economic distress.." http://reason.com/blog/2010/04/09/reasontv-jagdish-bhagwati-on-f

This is a brilliant interview.

 

This Arizona law is a ploy to get the National ID passed. I know it is just another coincidence that the former Arizona Governor now runs Homeland Security, but read the Immigration "reform" Bill to see the law that will go into effect once it is passed. This is for everyone, not just immigrants. Now, if you support this police state bullshit, it doesn't make you compassionate or progressive, instead, it makes you the opposite, since you are,in effect, supporting slave labor and working conditions beyond anything you could imagine. But,instead of talking about the free trade policies, the propaganda masters have you trained like seals, engaging in the debates that have nothing to do with the larger issues.

 

Not sure if Obama and Holder are working with Arizona. The past few days Holder has been made to look unprepared to respond about the bill.

Despite it being almost the exact same bill as the federal law. I don't understand that if someone supports this bill then they support slave labor. If anything if the AZ bill did the job of eliminating illegals (this is all hypothetical - it won't) then the companies could not hire illegal immigrants for dollars a day. This bill would force companies to hire legal workers, on the books, and thus pay them higher wages. You calling us all trained seals and towing the line of the propaganda masters is a broken record - Dime a Dozen man, dime a dozen.

 

And if you didn't know that Phoenix has become something of a war zone, over the last couple of years, with a lot of abductions right out of people's homes, then you have no business calling other people out, since you have no idea what you are talking about. It is you who should be questioning the news sources you read if they never bothered to mention the kidnappings and murders that have overrun Phoenix specifically and Arizona in general. But go ahead and recite the talking points, don't bother to actually think about what causes people to flee their countries. And if you do support globalization, then put your money where your mouth is, and give up half your salary,since Americans are so overpaid. But my guess is, it's everyone else who is overpaid, and, not you, which, is as laughable as the Tea Party complaining about "entitlements" as they collect Social Security. The race to the bottom is great isn't it?

 

Kidnappings have gone up, but crime in general have gone down. I would love to see Social Security privatized. But I am not a Tea Party person. I don't think we are overpaid. I think we spend too much - on a personal level and societal/government level.

[futureage1]

Ok I will bite.

 

Another thread and another debate that completely misses the larger points. The drug wars in South America do contribute to the violence in Phoenix,but, that is not even half of the people caught trying to cross the border. Now, what would drive these other people, not involved with drug trafficking, to still cross our borders? Could it be the free trade agreements that are in place in their respective countries? Free trade does not build other nations up, but exploits them, which the statistics for illegal immigration into the USA, readily back up.

 

People have been coming to this country since um well it started several hundred years ago, because of the chance for a better more free life. Free trade does not exploit people. Government oppression, bribery and not enforcing laws exploit people. Free trade between countries needs a lot more work. I tend to look at free trade with United States as the example. If each state had their own trade laws, rules and regulations trade and prosperity would be quite inhibited. If the people of the US were not allowed to freely migrate from one state to another for work or leisure growth would for sure be retarded. However with a free trade agreement between all the separate states with the open door policy for foreigners, the US as a whole has experienced great growth.

Growth is not 15.3 million unemployed,record foreclosures and states collapsing around the country. Real growth is not based on personal debt to sustain your lifestyle. You have contradicted yourself. If Govt. interference is the root of our problems, then that would INCLUDE free trade agreements, since it is Govt. intrusion into industry. The issue is not our states immigration policies, but, why immigrants are sneaking into the country illegally, at record levels. That would prove the arguments about the benefits to the world of free trade wrong. It's a farce. Credit is not prosperity. This is easily explained when you look at wage suppression over the last 30 years, however.

 

In case you didn't notice, the EU is collapsing right now, even after throwing a trillion dollars at the "PIG" nations this week. France and Germany are threatening to pull out of the EU and stop using the EURO altogether. Mexico is on the verge of collapsing and many would argue it already did last summer when the US sent in troops to Mexico City.

 

EU is most definitely fucking up, but free trade and capitalism is not the reason. Many of those countries including Greece still fight the invisible hand, and rely on Government for full support. "The central cause is not the euro, even if it has meant Greece can't depreciate its own currency to ease the economic pain. Budget deficits and debt are the real problems; and these stem from all the welfare benefits (unemployment insurance, old-age assistance, health insurance) provided by modern governments." R. Samuelson - The Quote Can Be Found here

 

I did not blame capitalism. I also would not blame the Greek social safety net. Those were in place long before the Euro and were never a problem until Goldman Sachs got into the Greek Govt. Billions in fraudulent financial products are easily more responsible for Greece's problems than unemployment insurance. I'm surprised you didn't quote Thomas Friedman. That quote is laughable on logic and completely dishonest.

 

 

Globalization doesn't work and is a flat failure and until people recognize that fact and demand safeguards and to do away with the free trade agreements, expect nothing to change and for it to get worse. Has it been worth it? Are people forced to crawl through the weeds,in the middle of the night, in pursuit of a decent life the beneficiaries of these policies?

 

Free Trade does work and "is never more necessary—or vulnerable—than in times of economic distress.." http://reason.com/bl...h-bhagwati-on-f

This is a brilliant interview.

 

There is no such thing as Free Trade since it is Govt. enforced. You can't have it both ways. Austerity measures don't work. New Deal policies do and have a 70 year track record of doing just that.

 

This Arizona law is a ploy to get the National ID passed. I know it is just another coincidence that the former Arizona Governor now runs Homeland Security, but read the Immigration "reform" Bill to see the law that will go into effect once it is passed. This is for everyone, not just immigrants. Now, if you support this police state bullshit, it doesn't make you compassionate or progressive, instead, it makes you the opposite, since you are,in effect, supporting slave labor and working conditions beyond anything you could imagine. But,instead of talking about the free trade policies, the propaganda masters have you trained like seals, engaging in the debates that have nothing to do with the larger issues.

 

Not sure if Obama and Holder are working with Arizona. The past few days Holder has been made to look unprepared to respond about the bill. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=5U4tI_qzyH0 Despite it being almost the exact same bill as the federal law. I don't understand that if someone supports this bill then they support slave labor. If anything if the AZ bill did the job of eliminating illegals (this is all hypothetical - it won't) then the companies could not hire illegal immigrants for dollars a day. This bill would force companies to hire legal workers, on the books, and thus pay them higher wages. You calling us all trained seals and towing the line of the propaganda masters is a broken record - Dime a Dozen man, dime a dozen.

 

And if you didn't know that Phoenix has become something of a war zone, over the last couple of years, with a lot of abductions right out of people's homes, then you have no business calling other people out, since you have no idea what you are talking about. It is you who should be questioning the news sources you read if they never bothered to mention the kidnappings and murders that have overrun Phoenix specifically and Arizona in general. But go ahead and recite the talking points, don't bother to actually think about what causes people to flee their countries. And if you do support globalization, then put your money where your mouth is, and give up half your salary,since Americans are so overpaid. But my guess is, it's everyone else who is overpaid, and, not you, which, is as laughable as the Tea Party complaining about "entitlements" as they collect Social Security. The race to the bottom is great isn't it?

 

 

Kidnappings have gone up, but crime in general have gone down. I would love to see Social Security privatized. But I am not a Tea Party person. I don't think we are overpaid. I think we spend too much - on a personal level and societal/government level.

Really how does that work? I have heard nothing about crime going down until this law was passed. People that have paid 30-40 years into SS don't deserve their money? And you can't be serious about privatizing SS and leaving it to the market after the last two years. If you are then you must be slightly touched. You would argue that after the 1,000 point drop in the market in 30 minutes two weeks ago? I'm sure you believe it was just a computer or human error right?

 

We do spend too much on the military and wars. Deal with those and the money that was robbed out SS funds to pay for them and you wouldn't have a problem. Halliburton charging the Govt. $100 dollars to do a soldiers load of laundry is much more wasteful than anything you brought up, but, it's funny that the free marketeers never touch on that, only unemployment insurance and pension funds. Free trade doesn't work and never has. None of these countries were in trouble until the creation of the EU. Greece not being able to act on it's own, in it's own best interests, is the problem.

[Guest Jules]

Now, if you support this police state bullshit, it doesn't make you compassionate or progressive, instead, it makes you the opposite, since you are,in effect, supporting slave labor and working conditions beyond anything you could imagine.

Where is this "slave labor" you speak of?

[IATTBYB]

Just finished watching the K-Central Graduation were Obama was the commencement speaker. Every graduate got to shake the Prez's hand as they walked across the stage. This is one graduation ceremony that the participants will never forget.

Wrong thread.