Toy Story

[jakobnicholas]

Based on early reviews, Toy Story 3 is on par with the first 2 films, which is saying A LOT.

 

 

Toy Story 1 may always be my favorite Pixar film because it was revolutionary...advanced graphics, great visuals, deep characters and a good story.

Toy Story 2 added a likeable female character, more emotional depth and lots of fun.

Toy Story 3 sounds to be loaded with goofiness, tense action and supposedly deals with mortality a bit.

 

 

Perhaps the best trilogy of all time?

[Guest Speed Racer]

I think Star Wars was pretty rock-solid in that department.

 

I'm still waiting for Pixar to release a full-length starring a female character.

[remphish1]

I may be alone in this department but Back to the Future is my favorite trilogy!

[Guest Speed Racer]

Ooooh, dark horse! That's a good one, too. Just saw it for the first time this year.

[Good Old Neon]

I'm a little shocked that no one has mentioned Meatballs 1, 2, and 3, frankly.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I didn't mention the Die Hard trilogy because everyone already knows that is at the top of the list - maybe some people feel that way about Meatballs, I guess?

[jakobnicholas]

I'm still waiting for Pixar to release a full-length starring a female character.

 

 

 

You won't be waiting too long. June 15, 2010, Pixar will release "Brave". It's about a daughter born into Scottish royalty, but she wants to be an archer instead. Brenda Chapman, who gets writing credits, will be the first female to direct a Pixar film.

 

 

I'll withhold judgement on comparing Toy Story to Star Wars. Star Wars 1 & 2 would get the edge over Toy Story 1 & 2. But Jedi was a decent-sized step back.

 

Back to the Future 1 is a GREAT, GREAT movie. But "Future 2" was just good, and "Future 3" a huge disappointment, in my opinion.

 

Lord of the Rings might top Toy Story, but Lord of the Rings was MEANT to be 3 movies.

[u2roolz]

You won't be waiting too long. June 15, 2010, Pixar will release "Brave". It's about a daughter born into Scottish royalty, but she wants to be an archer instead. Brenda Chapman, who gets writing credits, will be the first female to direct a Pixar film.

 

 

Just dipping my feet in this thread for now, but what year are you living in? Brave would be out already. It's actually coming out in 2012 according to this link - Disregard The Website Name It's The Best I Could Find In Short Time So That People Weren't Demanding Brave This Weekend

[Guest Speed Racer]

Sixteen years, then, between their first full-length and their first full-length starring a female character. Way too long in this - well, I'd say century, but I guess this is their second one.

[jakobnicholas]

Sixteen years, then, between their first full-length and their first full-length starring a female character. Way too long in this - well, I'd say century, but I guess this is their second one.

 

 

Probably so. But that shouldn't skew whether their movies are good or not.

 

Darla Anderson has produced many Pixar films, including Toy Story 3. Toy Story 2 was produced by 2 females. Cars and Ratatouille gives writing credits to many, including females.

 

 

If you read how Pixar was formed, you'll realize it was started by a bunch of computer geeks. It wasn't until they asked John Lassiter to join that the company started creating great stories. The core of the Pixar story-tellers were all buddies and all male.

 

 

Considering all that, I think they've done a good job with female characters. Jessie's character made Toy Story 2 great. Dory in Finding Nemo was the loveable, central character. Cars and Ratatouille both had strong, important female characters. Wall-e was basically a love story. And Up's Ellie character is one of the greatest characters in ALL their movies. Sucked that we only got a short glimpse of her, but her soul and spirit carried the movie, in my opinion.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I love Pixar, don't get me wrong, but their ommission of female leads drives me nuts. It's not rocket science.

 

Darla Anderson has produced many Pixar films, including Toy Story 3. Toy Story 2 was produced by 2 females. Cars and Ratatouille gives writing credits to many, including females.

 

That's great, but this isn't about giving CGI characters a better "career," this is about what the audience (read: children) are seeing. It is incredibly hard to find movies with strong, standalone female leads (i.e., with no male mentor or "rock"), and Pixar is no different. In Monster's, Inc., for instance, the two primary female characters were administrative assistants, and the hot-shots were all men. Yes, for 60 seconds, the female lead assisted in the star male character's winning goal-shot, but she spent 82(?) minutes of the film as a cranky office lackey.

 

Considering all that, I think they've done a good job with female characters.

 

Dory was consistently portrayed throughout the film as a nice airhead. And central character? Absolutely not. Supporting. I also found it interesting that Pixar decided to play the angle of the single father instead of a single mother. While on the one hand I agree that single fathers don't get a whole lot of airtime, they had a lot of movies under their belt by that point and easily could have made the parent a mother. Jessie is another perfect example of a great supporting character.

 

If you read how Pixar was formed, you'll realize it was started by a bunch of computer geeks. It wasn't until they asked John Lassiter to join that the company started creating great stories. The core of the Pixar story-tellers were all buddies and all male.

 

That's interesting. John Hughes was male, and he didn't take 16 years to put a female star in his movies.

[jakobnicholas]

I love Pixar, don't get me wrong, but their ommission of female leads drives me nuts. It's not rocket science.

 

 

 

That's great, but this isn't about giving CGI characters a better "career," this is about what the audience (read: children) are seeing. It is incredibly hard to find movies with strong, standalone female leads (i.e., with no male mentor or "rock"), and Pixar is no different. In Monster's, Inc., for instance, the two primary female characters were administrative assistants, and the hot-shots were all men. Yes, for 60 seconds, the female lead assisted in the star male character's winning goal-shot, but she spent 82(?) minutes of the film as a cranky office lackey.

 

 

 

Dory was consistently portrayed throughout the film as a nice airhead. And central character? Absolutely not. Supporting. I also found it interesting that Pixar decided to play the angle of the single father instead of a single mother. While on the one hand I agree that single fathers don't get a whole lot of airtime, they had a lot of movies under their belt by that point and easily could have made the parent a mother. Jessie is another perfect example of a great supporting character.

 

 

 

That's interesting. John Hughes was male, and he didn't take 16 years to put a female star in his movies.

 

 

You make valid points, but why did you gloss over the few times that Pixar DID get it right with females? I didn't even mention The Incredibles, which if I was female, I imagine I'd LOVE the gritty mom character, and feisty costume designer. And I thought the daughter had a John Hughes-type character vibe.

 

I've read before that animated movies, to be really successful at the box office, must be able to hook young males. Beauty and the Beast might be an exception, but even that movie had lots of action and male characters.

 

Coraline was a great movie, and did OKAY at the box office. The Frog Princess did just okay as well.

 

The same lack of female lead can be seen in Dreamworks animated movies.

 

In November, Disney will release "Tangled". It was originally to be called "Rapunzel", but the studio feared it might seem too much like a girl movie, so they changed the title. But that won't change that the focal character will be a female. We'll see what that one is like.

 

Hopefully "Brave" will do well and open the door to more female-dominated movies.

[Guest Speed Racer]

You make valid points, but why did you gloss over the few times that Pixar DID get it right with females?

 

Because my contention is that no female character has been the star of a Pixar film.

 

Based on this, who is the star of the film?

[Guest Speed Racer]

I didn't even mention The Incredibles, which if I was female, I imagine I'd LOVE the gritty mom character, and feisty costume designer.

 

It's funny that you phrased it that way; what you're implying is that you can't identify with or want to emulate a strong character if you are not the same sex as that character - and that's my point. One of them, at least.

[u2roolz]

It appears that Pixar and DreamWorks are having a tough time to think outside the Disney "Princess" box. All of those famous Disney cartoons are synonymous with their respective "Princesses". As a male, I can't for the life of me recall the princes' names in each film. It's ironic that Disney decided to subvert their own creation(s) by coming out with Enchanted. As a potential future father, I'd like to see a more diverse set of strong, independent, smart female characters in cartoons. Are you saying that the Disney "Princesses" don't fit the bill? It's certainly debatable. It's a fine line of having a problem with the message(s) and it's eventual receivers. At what point does a young girl shake off the Disney "Princess" syndrome? It's a lot like saying that young boys who grew up with G.I. Joes and Transformers etc. are destructive and trouble seeking and may bring elements of that into adolescence and adulthood.

 

A nice 6 page NY Times article (below) from a mother who is fed up with the Disney "Princess" craze. What's interesting is that this woman is kind of in a way realizing that her daughters are now being subjected to media fed bullshit about how one should grow up and what they should value as much as boys are and the studios (media) are making profits off of it. (on a side note: It's a huge story how much of a "bomb" Sex & The City 2 was and how it completely threw out 12 years of character development out the window to make a forced, rushed and not very well thought out sequel that studios figured that women would run out to and see 3 or 4 times, much like the last one. Well, obviously, they can smell a stinker as much as a man can.)

What's Wrong With CInderella? NY Times 2006 Article

Also: What's Wrong With Being A Princess? ABC News 2007

 

Another brain storm: It's sad, in some strange way that it hasn't really gone over to romantic comedies in a LONG time, that some of the strongest female characters have come out in the realm of the horror genre. Which pretty much on a very basic level means: you can be a survivor if you beat the boogey man {edit} which could be a metaphor for anything. And it's no surprise that the horror genre is huge for the female demographic.

 

Women seem to be doing more than ok in college education and jobs according to this recent Atlantic article: The End Of Men Of course, you can have fun and try to figure out if this is a revolt against the Disney "Princess", a modification of it or a combination of the 2.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, u2roolz. As someone who never-ever-ever-ever wanted to be a Disney princess, I had a hell of a time coming up with female protagonists in my youth. Never did I find one from the movies, and the closest I got elsewhere was Ramona, primarily because she was as awkward as me. Don't get me wrong - I loved a lot of movies starring boys and men, but I really missed out on women I wanted to be like. Discounting, of course, Whoopie Goldberg in Sister Act.*

 

[*] Though I'd had to spoil this moment by pointing out that Lt. Souther was the one who protected and saved her in the end.

[jakobnicholas]

It's funny that you phrased it that way; what you're implying is that you can't identify with or want to emulate a strong character if you are not the same sex as that character - and that's my point. One of them, at least.

 

 

Bitter much?

 

 

There's a busniness reason big U.S. movie studios don't try to make Kiki's Delivery Service. In my opinion, "Kiki" is a GREAT movie. I loved it. But I'd imagine that movie wouldn't crack 100 million if made and released by Pixar.

 

Mabye movies like Coraline and "Brave" will be steps toward making kids movies that are focused on females.

 

 

And I don't think it's always about identifying with a character. In the case of Mrs. Incredible, I LOVED how "all in" she was on her kids and her family. I respect the hell out of that. Mr. Incredilbe was going through a mid-life crisis and was living in the past....things maybe I'll relate some day. But SHE kept it together and was the hero (er...heroine) of the movie.

 

And if I could physically be ANY character in ALL of Pixar's movies, it would be Ellie from "Up". She seemed like an amazing peson. Though a grumpy old man and curious boy got the screen time, it was Ellie who stole the movie and it was her who guided the old man.

 

 

 

(This is supposed to be a Toy Story appreciation thread, not a female-characters-in-film empowerment thread.)

[Guest Speed Racer]

Bitter much?

 

Well, wasn't that what you were implying? I thought it was quite interesting that you phrased it that way - "If I was female." I thought that was telling, so I mentioned that.

 

I appreciate Toy Story. I don't think it's one of the greatest trilogies, but I appreciate it. I appreciate it so much, in fact, that I wish the company that made it would remove it's head from it's rear, jump forward a few centuries in storytelling themes, and make a few equally-amazing films with strong female leads.

 

And I don't think it's always about identifying with a character. In the case of Mrs. Incredible, I LOVED how "all in" she was on her kids and her family. I respect the hell out of that. Mr. Incredilbe was going through a mid-life crisis and was living in the past....things maybe I'll relate some day. But SHE kept it together and was the hero (er...heroine) of the movie.

 

I also hope some day you'll relate to being "all in" for your family, too, no?

[jakobnicholas]

I appreciate Toy Story. I don't think it's one of the greatest trilogies, but I appreciate it. I appreciate it so much, in fact, that I wish the company that made it would remove it's head from it's rear, jump forward a few centuries in storytelling themes, and make a few equally-amazing films with strong female leads.

 

 

You just admitted you thought Toy Story was "amazing". So we agree.

 

And yes, I too would like to see Pixar make a film with a strong female lead. And I know they will.

 

 

Just curious, what movies in history do you like for the reason that they had strong female leads? And have you ever seen great animated and/or kids movies that rely on a female lead character?

[Guest Speed Racer]

You just admitted you thought Toy Story was "amazing". So we agree.

 

I'm sorry, I really did think I stated that earlier. I think Toy Story's amazing, yes. If I thought Pixar was terrible, why would I push for them to make a (presumably terrible, then) female-starring film? There's no "gotcha" moment there.

 

Just curious, what movies in history do you like for the reason that they had strong female leads? And have you ever seen great animated and/or kids movies that rely on a female lead character?

 

The point is that they are extraordinarily hard to come by. What are YOUR favorites? It'll take you a while to find one without a male propping her up. I think Fried Green Tomatoes is pretty good, and I like The River Wild with Meryl Streep. I am disappointed that films like Silence of the Lambs and, well, many Jodie Foster films have characters who rely on male mentors, fathers or love interests so they can "find" their strength. Rarely do male characters have to rely on mothers, female mentors or love interests to succeed quite as much as in female-lead films. In fact, most still rely on male figures.

[jakobnicholas]

What are YOUR favorites?

 

 

You Can Count On Me (Laura Linney stars)

Wixard of Oz

Spirited Away

Thelma and Louise (up until the cop-out ending)

Dancer in the Dark

 

 

It IS hard to think of many. But I'm a guy, so probably haven't seen too many films that, to me, looked too "chick-flickish".

[Guest Speed Racer]

Wixard of Oz

 

The whole point of that film is that she travels with male companions (for protection) to a man who is supposed to fix her problem.

[jakobnicholas]

Mary Poppins

 

Sound of Music

[Guest Speed Racer]

Sound of Music relies on a love interest, and Dancer in the Dark HARDLY qualifies as a strong female lead. Thelma and Louise are the epitome of crazy-lady antisocial behavior, which is apparently what happens when women reject men.

[Atticus]

I am disappointed that films like Silence of the Lambs and, well, many Jodie Foster films have characters who rely on male mentors, fathers or love interests so they can "find" their strength. Rarely do male characters have to rely on mothers, female mentors or love interests to succeed quite as much as in female-lead films. In fact, most still rely on male figures.

 

maybe I merge the books and the movies too much, but I never looked at the Clarice Starling character as being propped-up by or dependent upon men. Sure she learned much from some male characters, but we're talking about an intelligence agency that was overwhelmingly dominated by men, so it's not surprising that she would be mentored by men, etc.

 

and as a side point, to further derail this thread from its intended topic (sorry, OP): does a female character have to "stand alone" to be an important or inspiring character? this seems kind of short-sighted and perhaps stereotyping from another angle.