Spawn's dad

who are you again?

That's still the best of the carlos pics to my mind.

Is that what I said?

Spawn on the infield of Churchill Downs

Typos by iPhone with love from Steve Jobs.

I imagine the only thing you're going to win a national title for is blowing smoke up your own ass. But if you *did* win a national title, by your own logic that is proof that you must be doping, since by your own statements anyone who succeeds at athletics at any significant level is obviously using PED's.

while it's true old guys do test positive each year, for the most part training time and intensity trump the need for drugs on thus level. There's simply not enough on the line to make it a worthwhile endeavor. It's not like some 45 year old is getting

signed to a uci team. A friend if mine did get bumped up at the worlds last year, fro

4th to 3rd, because one of the podium finishers tested positive.

I was the number one ranked rider I'm my category last year, and there are enough people here who know me (for real) that I don't really need to blow smoke up my own ass. Still being the fastest old guy on a given day is different than being a 20 year old cat 1 trying to make it to the next level.

I imagine the only thing you're going to win a national title for is blowing smoke up your own ass. But if you *did* win a national title, by your own logic that is proof that you must be doping, since by your own statements anyone who succeeds at athletics at any significant level is obviously using PED's.

while it's true old guys do test positive each year, for the most part training time and intensity trump the need for drugs on thus level. There's simply not enough on the line to make it a worthwhile endeavor. It's not like some 45 year old is getting

signed to a uci team. A friend if mine did get bumped up at the worlds last year, fro

4th to 3rd, because one of the podium finishers tested positive.

I was the number one ranked rider I'm my category last year, and there are enough people here who know me (for real) that I don't really need to blow smoke up my own ass. Still being the fastest old guy on a given day is different than being a 20 year old cat 1 trying to make it to the next level.

Completely absurd. Your wild claims about the 2008 Tour riders are completely unsupported by any evidence whatsoever, except the desperate fingerpointing accusations of the utterly unreliable Bernard Kohl, trying to minimize his admitted drugging by claiming that "everybody does it." You're the delusional one, living in a fantasyland where by watching tv carefully you're able to successfully obtain positive drug tests for 200-some cyclists. Your opinions of Armstrong's success are more of the same -- speculation by the ignorant. The fact that you'd bring up his personal life as evidence that he cheated his way to 7 Tour de France victories just shows your claims are rooted in your vindictive dislike of the man rather than any science.

BTW, I've followed Armstrong's career before he was even a full time cyclist, and was just a tri geek. I don't watch much on TV, I'm to busy actually doing it.

Having participated in high end athletics for 30 years, and raced bicycles for more than 20, one doesn't need to be a genius to survey the landscape of sport

and see PED usage is the norm in upper level professional athletics. There's a reason recent most grand tour winners have been enshrouded in controversy. Not even

to forget that this usage is repeatedly proven to be systematic through scandals like Puerto, Kohl's revelations, the recent Quickstep shoe that fell, every

Armstrong domestique being disgraced by drug scandals (Heras, Landis, Hamilton, Andreau), sworn testimony as to things that were done or said, and didn't

Betsy Andreau just win some court settlement on the very topic..? Plus even in this country there has been systematic doping of national team riders.

It has nothing to do with vindictive dislike. Those are the silly words of someone with nothing to say. The debunking of mythologies does nothing to tarnish

athletic achievement. Sport is hard enough without needing it to be hyperbolic or rooted in some unobtainable genetic achievement, that simply sets

standards unobtainable without PED usage. It simply sets a standard that kids, and young adults to follow need to take health risks to even think about

chasing their dreams.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to win a national title but I need pancakes first.

The Lackeys took me to Ramsi's. Huge menu, cool place in a cool neighborhood.

 

The Louisville Slugger factory has a tour, which I didn't get a chance to do, but it looked pretty good (I know that Reni has done it recently, maybe Graham could get her to chime in here). Just a couple of blocks from that is the Muhammed Ali Center, which was really interesting.

 

I stayed down near the convention center, which has a weird "Fourth Street Live!" restaurant/entertainment district, so you'd have no trouble finding a restaurant there, but it could very well be at the price of your soul. Other than that, though, there seemed to be stuff going on along the waterfront in that area, and I also just walked a couple of miles up Fourth Street to see some nice older homes, etc.

 

And that's the "I was a tourist in Louisville for two days" report.

gogo we went to Ramsi's. Spawn had the fish tacos and was in all kinds of glory. thanks.

Why do you hate Wilco?

2 year difference. Lance isn't winning anything at 40.

Farve is kind of, err, older. Plus let lance get into the top 10 first.

11:30am on the fourth.

Ok.

My race is actually in Churchill Downs.

In 2008 every tour cyclist was on Cera. And in 2009 every cyclist is using something there isn't a test for yet. Plus Lance did Mashley Olsen which is just freaking creepy.

And actually Lance did test positive for EPO, but it was after the fact, and the results weren't designed to catch him but just develop the test for EPO. But if anyone thinks that Lance beat a handful of

the best tour cyclists ever, all of whom subsequently were revealed to be doping at the time, merely on his legendary heart size and body's ability to process lactic acid, I'd say in a word you're delusional.

The Chuck Norris page should replace Chuck with Lance.

That Ramsi's place looks pretty awesome.

I'm kinda excited to spend a holiday weekend in KY. Which feels kind of wrong to say

Spawn and I are on the road to Louisville for a race weekend. Any suggestions on places to go, things to do or eat (that kid loves to eat)?

E-Sue suggested Lynn's Paradise Cafe. Anything else we should be should to do while there for a few days?

Do you suppose the ancient greeks appreciated their art at the time? Maybe we should shun Michael Jackson and let some future generation appreciate him?

And back to A-Man's point I'm still disturbed by the idea that if the kid was 15 and a girl it probably wouldn't be met with sure ire.

Yeah.

so where's the tipping point with age & gender?

Cheers solace

rempish I'm on my iPhone posting while on the phone with isadorah and alleged is hard to type

Sigh. What was socially acceptacle in an ancient society is a bit irrelevant. We've also managed to evolve since the civil war and have even given women rights. This isn't that though. This is discussing what is devivant behavior. I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with liking his music though I can't imagine discussing his life without a heavy emphasis on his being a deviant.

I was going to hop in this thread and post "are we still talking about this" roll my eyes and go on my merry way, but this got kinda stuck in my craw.

 

I disagree wholeheartedly. Maybe in a different time when there was no tv or 24 hour CNN or internet and Gauguin could move to Tahiti and marry a 13 year old girl and contract syphilis from all his indiscretions without any consequences beyond the physical torture of the syphilis...I think art and artist just like science and the means to which it is achieved or any other career and personality should NOT be separated especially if they are in the spotlight. He was a great artist, shame about that child molestation thing. I think a person's character informs their art. Maybe that's why Jackson's music died for a lot of people in the '90s. Is Michael Jackson someone we should idolize and use as an example of someone we want our kids to look up to? Our world isn't going to be without his art or his talent, but aren't we passing judgment on who our heroes should be not if he was or was not a good artist? I find it somewhat disturbing that since thursday all we've heard about was this man, non-stop all the while Farrah Fawcett lost her battle with cancer and through her suffering showed such strength and humanity by allowing her vulnerabilities to be exposed to the world; a story that can respectfully serve as inspiration, strength, and courage to anyone facing cancer. But instead, we'll spend all our time paying homage to a man that made great music back in the day and in his later years maimed, disfigured himself, and lead an "eccentric" lifestyle. "Eccentric" is too often a bullshit term used to overlook an artists bad behavior.

 

I'll take 2 days of Farrah Fawcett coverage over Michael Jackson.

Calm down.

we'll have to agree to disagree then i guess.

 

in my book, accepting cash to cover up ANY crime (esp. sexual abuse) makes you basically guilty by association and that you feel money can buy justice.

I don't get what we're disagreeing about. You're obfuscating. OK, you think the parents did a bad thing. I already said more rational people might choose a different course of action from start to finish. That doesn't alter whether he diddled little boys or not. Because someone lets you do something illegal doesn't suddenly make it ok.

Really? It's coming down to whether or not MJ was "normal". Hmm seems like a non-issue to me considering every rock star since Elvis has either fucked their cousin or engaged in some form of freakiness. Hi, Iggy and Bowie. A shout out to Chuck Berry and his coprophagia. Not to mention the 13 yr girls who scratched the pioneers of r&r's back. Sure MJ was eccentric, but so is every other 170M selling artist. Wait is there another one still alive. Crazy how intolerant rock fans can be. Is this a GOP convention or...Where's Ryan Adams and his rake when you need him.

Tolerance? I'm sure you're going for shock value, but ok, I'll bite.

So should we be tolerant of Phil Spector? I'm pretty sure fame helped OJ get off. There are few acts, I believe, as reprehensible as the abuse of a child.

That our penalties aren't stiffer continues to astound me.

And no Solace, I didn't get your point, but that's because I don't think you wrote what you intended to. You clearly wrote that the kid's parent weren't looking out

for his well being by accepting the cash, and not pursuing the legal means of getting the creep off the street. If we can't know or assume what went on in

MJ's never never land we certainly can't decide what's in the best interests of a kid who was exposed to insanity. So if you'd clarify perhaps it'll be clearer

that we're not really saying very different things. I think most people would agree that there's something off about a grown man having sleep overs with

someone else's kid and would keep their kids out of that situation. Once you step into that, and demonstrate that lack of judgment/star struckedness

the next decision may or may not be what saner people would do.

if you don't report an abuser/molester, you risk the very likelihood of them doing it again to someone else, which at that point you're partially responsible for allowing that to continue.

Yes, it would forego the welfare of other children, but not necessarily their own; which is what your earlier post said.

In any case, large sums of money and good decisions don't frequently go hand in hand.

right... but at that point i'd argue that makes the parents almost worse than the abuser for forgoing the welfare of their own child for monetary purposes.

Again, I think one would really need to weigh harming the child further by dragging him into a trial and all that.

Still, like I said, I think they were screwed up for letting him have sleep overs there, so they were whacked from the get go.

Taking money to move past something as worse than molesting a kid? I don't know, man, that's a pretty heavy statement. With a young

child I'm not sure how his welfare is being looked after if his abuser is put in jail. I'm not a child psychologist but I'm not sure the child's

mind works that way. I would see it more as punitive and preventive to society.