Doug C

watch me fall, why is it so hard for you to see people express their opinion about a band's decisions on that band's message board?

"We never take cancellations/postponements lightly but you'll just have to take our word here that logistically, we had no choice."

Logistics - the planning, implementation, and coordination of the details of a business or other operation. (from dictionary.com)

So what the statement means is that the only way that they could appear on Saturday Night Live on Saturday, the 1st of March 2008 was to cancel the Charleston concert. In other words, as several have pointed out, appearing on Saturday Night Live trumped a sold out concert planned months ago.

No need for interpretation, perspective or anything else. There you have it.

Not that this means anything, but why are these divisive arguments (re:Charleston, VW commercials) always started by someone new to the board. What ever happened to the guy who went nuts about the VW commercials, anyway? Essentially, is Ellsworth is Jeff Tweedy?

1) I am not 'new to the board'. You have been here less than a year longer than me!! I only post when i feel the need. Trading, reviews, and issues that i assume boarders would care about, i.e. scalping and bad decisions.

2) Your post is evidence of the point some of us are trying to make about the lock step mindset that seems to makeup many VCers. Read it slowly. It's ironic. As I said to EL Cliff Hubbard, some of you all aren't very good at debate.

To quote Jeff Tweedy, touche'!

myboy, you are raising your percentage!

QUOTE (ellsworth @ Feb 27 2008, 12:06 PM)

As far as the band's perspective, Cliff Hubbard, my point is that their perspective could easily be one that leads them to a 'no' decision on SNL due

 

 

obviously not, they rescheduled the show.

Um, I said that their perspective could easily have been different. I certainly hope so. If not, then that means that they didn't even consider the consequences of rescheduling. I am glad that my view of Wilco's respect for the fan's is more positive than your's. Some of you all don't seem to be to good at debate... just like I'm not too skilled at quoting...

One more time just for you sweetie. I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about your argument.

Okay, 'sweetie', how is my argument 'vitriolic'?

M. Christine, if you know what vitriol means then why accuse me of it? Odd. Also, why quote non-ellsworths in a post directed at me? Strange.

myboyblue ,

You are truly an inspiration. Your obsessive responses about my being obsessed spur me to new heights of obsessiveness.

Stay obsessed buddy!

Your Pal,

ell

Wow, is this band so obscure that NBC can't even spell their name correctly on the sked?

 

http://www.nbc.com/Schedule/

 

Talk about incompetence, and lack of respect.

Well, thank goodness they are on the show!

here's the thing, unless you actually had tickets to charleston show...of course these is going to be not a lack, but a DIFFERENT perspective.

 

as i don't care that much about the rescheduling of a show i'm not attending NOR an appearance on SNL i'll forget about and watch on youtube the next day, i'll just be pragmatic and/or objective about the whole thing and look at from the band's perspective. the practicality from a business perspective of appearing on SNL over one regional show is blatantly obvious...100X more exposure which translates to additional album and ticket sales.

Again, my principles... If I did not have tickets, I would feel the same way. My perspective would not waver. I would still support the principle the logistics of rescheduling are bad. Others without tickets agree.

As far as the band's perspective, Cliff Hubbard, my point is that their perspective could easily be one that leads them to a 'no' decision on SNL due to the logistics.

Say, that's pretty logical, if I do say so myself.

I'm not going to mention any names but I think that there are some folks that are a bit obsessed with making their point in this thread. Honestly, let's let this go. Think of the time wasted not changing anyone's mind.

 

Disappointing - Yes

Selfish, sell-out, the bands reputation is ruined forever in the fan's minds - No

ellsworth is the name you are looking for. My principles always outweigh my will... Please read my posts before responding. I have never said a word about Wilco being sell-outs, selfish or their reputation being ruined. And think of time wasted responding to me. Obviously, I see my time spent here as not wasted.

I honestly can't tell which side of the argument you're taking here. It sounds like you are describing the posters who said they have based their entire existence around seeing this one show.

 

Disappointment is one thing, but all the projected vitriol and extrapolation is just patently absurd.

My principles always defeat my will... I have said nothing about my life being over. Talk about extrapolation. Do you know the meaning of vitriol? If you do, then there is another example of extrapolation.

Some of these reactions to the cancelled show are so sad. As I sit and read through this entire thread, I can't help but think what an insult this is to one of the worlds most generous bands, who are also one of the most respected in the music world, who are supported with respectable and kind wives and families. ... The opportunity to play on SNL is totally awesome and exciting, and a cancelled show is not. But please try to be thrilled and positive for this band (which btw has a huge amount of respect from people of all walks of life). Look at the bright side, you get to see them on SNL and in concert this summer.

Again, this is what I mean by a lack of perspective. You clearly are a Wilco fan but this sounds like you put your love of the band above your love of their music. This leaves you unable to see that the band, like all of us, can make bad choices. It is possible to be the biggest Wilco fan but still dislike something, whether it be a song or canceling a show on short notice to be on SNL. There is absolutely nothing wrong with criticizing the SNL decision. I am certain that Jeff Tweedy expected it to be criticized. Expecting them to honor the Charleston show is a perfectly valid and rational line of thought. I am obviously beating the proverbial dead horse here but you didn't reply yesterday when I was making my points.

So, sorry if some of you've read it before.

Playing on SNL is a nice honor, yes, but it is honorable and rational to say, "Thank you for the opportunity. We'd be honored to play but the timing isn't right. We have a show in 5 days and that's too close to cancel or postpone it . Thank you and please keep us in mind if another date opens up". Again I say that if this happened, you, Maggie, and others would have thought that it was an excellent decision. "That's why I love Wilco!" Why is it so difficult to admit this? If you admit this then you have the perspective to see beyond your adoration of the band members and see that they are human beings. Some of you stated that you would have said, "Dumb decision. They should have canceled that show. It's SNL! Everyone in the country can see them play 2 songs!" If you really would have reacted that way, then you need to re-evaluate your adoration. It may have gone from being a clear-thinking music fan to being a thought-fettered fanatic.

Wilco, I am sure, had reasons for the decision but since I am not privy to them, I am unable to evaluate them. Personally, though they are under no moral or contractual obligation to do so, I would have liked to see an immediate statement explaining the logic behind the decision, rather that simply 'rescheduled to appear on SNL'. And again, they do not owe me this but it would enable me to possibly understand it and therefore react in a different manner. But judging from the reaction here, they likely, and seemingly correctly, assumed that 'to appear on SNL' was enough for the fans.

Reasonable people can disagree. Unreasonable people cannot. It seems that you are unable to grasp that this was not a generous decision from 'one of the world's most generous bands'. I can grasp that you actually think that people across the country being able to watch 2 songs an hour apart on a past-it's-prime late night sketch comedy show is reason for celebration but playing a sold out show instead of rescheduling it on 5 days notice over 5 months away on a different night of the week for a reason other than serious illness or emergency is foolhardy.

I have been enamored and moved by Jeff Tweedy's music since I first heard Screen Door when No Depression was released. I will continue to be. I look forward to seeing as many Wilco and solo shows as I can afford to, just as I have for years. My level of 'fan appreciation' hasn't wavered nor will it. But I am saddened by this episode. I will try with all of my will to resist further posts on this matter.

Peace to you all.

Ha ha ha! Thanks for the laugh, badu2fan.

I'll give it a shot. I am the guy that everyone loves to hate in the Charleston rescheduled thread! I am hoping to go to the Ryman instead now but the sell out makes it tough. If anyone has 2 that they can part with, this serious Wilco-lover would be much obliged and extremely happy. And my wife's birthday gift would be close to ontime again. Thank you docarter1@msn.com

It is Nels and one of Dylan's band members... plus some others... damn. I read this when it came out but i am blanking.

Tony Garnier is Dylan's bassist that i was forgetting

Clearly, I mean there was no mention of MA 1 or 2 and no KT. Just piss poor listing.

I agree. The fact that they left out albums speaks volumes about the list's credibility.

Eric, Ha ha! I truly believe that I would feel the same way if I were random fan somewhere. I honestly wouldn't care much about "the chance to connect..." That sounds pollyannaish. Touche' on the zealot-like but you know what I mean. Some of the responses have seriously bordered on religious fervor and a lack of perspective. This has reached the point where an argument must end. We don't accept each others reasons. That's cool. I came expecting one thing and got another. Such is life.

By nothing untoward, I meant that I have not been insulting or resorted to name-calling.

Also i disagree that most have been willing to see both sides. Most think that it is sacrilege to even question the decision, much less see my logic.

Even more. I look forward to the day we can meet before a show and remember old times over beers.

I'll happily meet you, if the opportunity arises.

Wilco, I am from Tampa not Charleston. I do not agree with your decision but I still love you.

Dude,

 

Who cares?

Disappointed? I'm sure. So was I when we missed out in Duluth. Them's the breaks man! that's friggin life. Take it easy! You'll see em again. The simple fact that they're playing SNL is a testimony to their continued existence.

 

But again:

Who cares?

These are guys who are devoted to their fans in a way I have never seen in a band before, and, considering all the benefits that these guys do when they could be making boatloads of money just doing their thing, should be considered before we criticize them for doing something that might help boost their career (ie. more shows).

 

We feel for ya man!

 

Take it easy!

Have patience

It will all turn out in the end.

We can make it better...

This is the most ridiculous post in this ridiculous thread. You missed them in Duluth due to an illness. But that isn't why it's ridiculous. Who cares about any post in an internet message board? You posting that no one cares is hilarious because as you said, NO ONE cares!! That most of you think it's aokay okie doke makes me laugh. Me and the treehugger are the only boarders that are also non-zealots. I ask you, if they had made the opposite decision would you have said, "Stupid! They could get exposure!!"? It's like most of you aren't fans of the music but followers of a religion. Obviously, I'll see them again. Hell, I keep talking about trying to put together Nashville. I have traveled far and wide to see them for years, and it isn't stopping because of this. That said, I still think that it was a bad decision. That so many of you are gaga over seeing 2 songs on SNL is wacky. I would hope that the members of the band would say, "Doug, we see your point. It is well made. But we also see ours. Maybe on another day we'd have gone another way. Thanks for being into us". I don't see their point because it hasn't been explained. I might see it. I have no way of knowing. I don't feel as though they owe me one, nor do I expect one, though. I am simply saying that via via chicago, I can explain my reasoning. Fervent, is a diplomatic way to describe the majority that have responded. There are other words. I love Wilco as an adult loves, not as a 4 year old.

Also, I have said nothing untoward at all. I am a nice guy and an ardent Wilco fan. I never thought I'd get the reaction that I did. Good lord willing and the creek don't run dry, I'll see some of you at the Ryman. If I find reasonable tickets, I'll start a thread to meet up. The first person to greet me gets a beer.

You don't talk this much in person, do you?

Even more. I look forward to the day we can meet before a show and remember old times over beers.

as for the residual effect of the residence gems, i'm guessing that will last all year, and maybe even be better later on after they're tired of SBS songs, who knows! knowing Jeff and the guys, they will make it up to Charleston somehow, trust me.

Well then, by your leave! Thank for the inside info. I feel great. Seriously though, this is how I feel about it. You couldn't find a bigger fan but I am unhappy. I'll hopefully see them Sunday. If not, then as many times as I can this summer. I'd prefer both though. again, cheers.

I'm going to throw a "Wilco on SNL" party this weekend!

Can I come if I can't get Ryman tickets?

So wait, you don't agree with the decision? I am just having a tough time keeping up with your position.

Why? I haven't wavered, myboyflippant.