ZenLunatic

Palin using Alaska money for kids travel - Under Investigation -

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081022/ap_on_...wp2wcqT6jkDW7oF

Today...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=899318909&play=1

The inevitable collapse of the dollar and the coming financial storm:

There are also "people who have been right all along" who advocate quite the opposite of what Paul wants.

 

That is to say, people on both sides of the free-market argument have warned about this financial implosion.

 

Personally, I think Paul's ideas, had they been in practice, would have led to an even worse implosion. But, I suppose, on that we'll just have to disagree.

Yeah, we can only wait and see.

In the short term, all the trillions of dollars used to try to fix this problem will prop up our economy. What happens when we have to pay the money back? Do we just keep printing money and devalue our currency?

We are borrowing too much and printing way too much. How can spending more money work?

A deep recession is necessary and will come like it or not. The only question is how much can the govt do to delay it and create even a bigger problem.

Check this out form 2 years ago:

They may have warned us about this, but their prescription could be worse than the disease.

The disease has yet to do its full damage. We can take the medicine now or prolong and fuel the disease with the same ideas until the damage is alot worse.

Time will tell. The people who have been right all along is the people I listen to, not the ones that lied to me and seem lost in this mess.

I think Obama is actually gaining in the polls and as long as the economy stays stressed, Obama will continue gaining. Just favors him in this situation.

Worst case scenario that McCain wins, I believe America will still improve greatly from its current state. McCain isnt better than Obama, but he isn't that bad. I would be greatly disappointed myself if Obama loses, but its no reason to get yourself sick over.

About 2 more weeks, My best advice would be to get your mind off the election cause I think it effects you too much. I truely believe McCain will NOT win so no need for your worries.

Where is this from?

Check out this site if you are not familiar with Ron Paul's ideas:

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

It's not just Ron Paul, there are many economists, financial specialists, and others that think along the same lines. These people have warned us of this long ago and we laughed at them and to this day while its happening, our government ignores this voice. We are trusting the same government that told us the economy was a solid system with solid foundations just months ago instead of the people who warned this was coming and predicted the whole thing. I would be worried of our future in America if continue on this road.

Youtube Ron Paul or Peter Schiff for better info.

Not Your Grandfather

A New Era of Slavery?

by Ron Paul

In the midst of highly unpopular bailouts of Wall Street, many justifications have been given about why Washington feels the need to act. Some claim that capitalism and the free market are to blame, but we have not had capitalism. If you compare our financial capital to our aggregate debt, this would be obvious. In the same way, we have not had a truly free market. The monetary manipulations of the Federal Reserve, a complex tax code, the many

Well we disagree I guess. I think your ideal is just that: an ideal. I don't believe it is possible and that is the point of this thread.

Yup, Disagreed.

When the revolution comes, I hope you change your mind because you will crave it in your heart. If history taught us anything, its that freedom always wins.

Did I say that?

I did agree with what you said even if my thing went somewhere else.

Grow up. America was about greed and power ever since Oct. 12, 1492. This ideal America which we all yearn for was never, ever reality.

I disagree. America was not created upon greed or power. It slowly happened throughout the years in differing ways but it has become a monster. This is the awakening call. You miss it now, you are in for a harder fall later.

Well this is really the root of it, no? I agree with everything you posted here if the world existed in a vacuum. But we can't just NOT regulate. If we leave the market completely to its own devices, bad people will do bad things. Again, see the current economic crisis for all the proof you need. I'd love to adopt the Ron Paul approach and say, screw the financial industry, they got themselves into this and now they're paying the price. Except it isn't just them that would pay the price. It isn't just them that are paying the price. So, we can either suffer the consequences which would surely be dire, or we can set rules beyond just the a totally free market to at least try to insure that those that would take advantage are held accountable. The very notion that the free market exists is a fallacy to me as well. We have tax breaks, subsidies, credit scores and a slew of other factors that distort true free market principles.

 

And, as Gordon Gecko said, greed is good in a capitalist economy. It is what drives it, so I think, in a way, greed and power ARE what we have always been about.

The important part of the arguement is that you think that the free market failed because of not enough regulation. I think it failed because of too many bad regulations that control the market. The government doesnt let the market be free and thats the problem.

I think things need regulations to make sure there isnt too much control over the free market, not regulate the market.

Dont regulate the prices of services and products or even interest rates. Dont decide which companies are in need of saving and which arent. Let the market decide. Dont you see what you are doing and creating by doing this?

you cant use presidents to gauge the stock market performance. There are other factors like overflow effects of certain policies that go from one prez to another. Also Alan Greenspan worked with the FED for 20 years spanning many presidents. He is to blame for alot of the economic situations.

No, the government did not restrain the free market enough and in the correct manner is why it failed. As FDR may or may have not said, "Capitalism is too important to be left to the capitalists."

I think this arguement is the biggest our country faces. Our government is thinking along the same lines as you. I totally disagree and dont trust in the moves that our govt is making. The FED created this mess. We need to elimate it. Less govt is the answer. The route we are taking is giving too much power to select entities and small number of people. It will destroy what we know of the free world.

We are breaking our own Constitution and leaving our founding fathers ideas in the garbage. We have lost who we are and what we stand for because of greed and power.

I think the rational thinking is that if either candidate wins by a sizeable margin there shouldn't even be a question because it should be beyond the rather smallish scope that any tampering could effect. But both sides have a paranoid edge about them. The left is still wigged out by some of what was perceived to have happened in Ohio and Florida in recent elections and the voter-purges that are continuing to go on. The right, on the other hand, is setting up the ACORN angle as a way of de-legitimizing an Obama victory. Really, the only way to stop that kind of speculation is for one candidate to win by enough that it is beyond doubt.

 

But don't win by too much, because that will get people going all conspiracy-theory on it, too.

 

Its a crazy world.

I see the point. This is my opinion but I dont think we will see rioting even if Obama loses (which I bet alot will not happen) unless there is some substantial evidence of tampering.

Anyone here like mayonaise and ketchup mixed on their french fries. It sounds gross but its awesome.

I found this white racist MB that I peak on once in awhile to get a feel for this sort of thinking during the election. Here's their thoughts on people rioting if Obama loses.

white racist on Obama

That board is sooo racist, alot of that has to be in humor. I dont see why people would riot unless it was an unfair election. If you lose fairly, just take it like a man.

if an obama presidency gives rise to ron paul, then it will all have been worth it.

Yup, that's the message I think Republicans should make. DONT VOTE FOR MCCAIN!! He's a sell-out.

It depends on what you consider fiscal conservatism. If by fiscal conservatism you are referring to concepts such as trickle down, and tax cuts paying for themselves, then yes it is not a workable philosophy. However if by fiscal conservatism you are referring to being responsible stewards of the peoples money, spending wisely and prudently living within the budgets set. Then that is still a viable option. If this second option were how republicans actually ran the government, they might not have lost me. But then again they still their nauseating (to me) social agenda.

 

The thing is that today the so called conservatives of the country today seem to only believe in low taxes, they may pay lip service to spending, but the record of unrestrained spending is undeniable. And even in the face of seeing that trickle down does not work, they continue to push this failed philosophy as if it might magically start to work tomorrow.

I agree with you. It is not the free market that failed. It is the government messing with the free market that failed.

McCain doesn't suck so much, I voted for him in the Iowa Caucus (I think I was the 1). I think he really blew his choice for running mate. Obama doesn't suck, I just think he's wrong. It'll be interesting to see what happens in this country if the Democrats have an filibuster proof majority. The WSJ has a predictable essay about the possibility.

I think the good side of this could be that the Republican party will have to reassess themselves and maybe get a more conservative person next time. Maybe this could make room for Ron Paul's ideas to come out.

i predict that everything that goes wrong will still be bush's fault. and reagan's not out of the woods yet, either.

You left out Clinton.

So..... alot has happened.

Govt buying $250 billion in major bank stocks with requirements on certain practices with no choice given to the banks. = PURELY WRONG!!! I cant believe we are letting this happen. What is our country coming to?

Also can anyone explain to me what they mean when they say they will buy up bad mortgages and help the buyer refinance so they can make things work? Isnt too general of a statement? What if there is huge losses that cant be paid, where do they go?

Does the govt actually think that people will suddenly start saving now and pay everything back later after we bail them out of their bad risks? This whole thing is gonna make a bigger explosion.

But anyways, today Buffett publically announced he is buying up stocks with his personal funds and think we should. Stocks are rising.

I don't like Palin, so I might. I can't see voting for McCain at this point. I may just abstain on the Presidential ballot when I vote. I respect Obama quite a bit, he's just sooooo liberal for me.

So you dont care who gets in. Both suck just as much as the other huh?