sweetheart-mine

Like all of the dead people in Iraq.

certainly couldn't have said it better myself.

hey, i have a brand-new-found appreciation for karl rove that may last for as long as a day, maybe not. obama should listen to him. this morning.

Nope...not officially though, but he did apparently say that Barak should basically start running against McCain only and keep talking about the issues....

 

LouieB

well, all righty then, i take it back. i'll apply for the position of special investigator to see that bush and cheney are tried for their crimes.

Are you talking Karl Rove?? He actually has been giving the Obama campaign good advise of late...... (truely..apparently in the Wall Street Journal and on George Stephanapolis' program this AM.)

 

LouieB

you're kidding. aren't you?

Like I said yesterday, I can see the Milky Way from my hammock in Missouri. I was told by many VC'ers this qualifies me to run the whole damn galaxy. I will work with you to ensure everyone here on VC has their job of choice in Washinghton...and some other swell boring political stuff.

oh good. can i be the person who actually escorts rove to his prison cell, turns the lock, and takes the key home with me where i can assure you no one will ever be able to find it again?

Because a candidate is "for" things you agree with does not mean those things will actually happen. I understand the ideology behind it and the cause to vote for the person you agree with, but that alone doesn't mean shit will actually change. There's still a checks-and-balances system and a lot of what both sides preach never amounts to squat.

 

Yeah, voting is cool. Voice heard and all. Change? I'm not convinced.

bush and company have changed more in eight years than anyone ever could have imagined. i'm not sure how one could miss that fact.

Later I will decapitate Eric Gagne, but only for sport.

i'm afraid i know what you mean, and you have my sympathy.

Alss a little scary

 

Palin has ruined my hopes for the future of this country, and my dream of living in Alaska.

and my dream of even just visiting alaska. for one thing, i didn't know lipstick existed in alaska. now i hear that it does, over and over and over.

p.s. for anyone who needs clarification, that was a joke.

I just spent way too much time reading this thread. That was my choice as it was to read similiar ones. I am convinced that certain posters would be unable to have the same exchange face to face. They would start laughing or at the very least start smiling because they are saying things that they don't believe simply to watch the show. That is the uniqueness of message board debates. It is easy to have an enjoyable time getting someone to respond to you whether you are stating your actual convictions or not. You can type on a keyboard in the privacy of your own space and laugh your ass off. Few people can say insincere words - well they are sincerely meant to push the right button but you know what I'm saying - to such a degree in person and keep a straight face. I'm not saying anything you don't already know. I am just keeping it fresh in your minds.

i've noticed this somewhat in all the election threads on this board (and another board i was involved with but had to leave in disgust, where pushing other people's buttons is the only motivation of about 98% of the participants -- the percentage is way smaller here). having missed the last day or two here and now having caught up, i'd like to say how very much i appreciate the viewpoint and thoughts behind louie b's posts in this thread.

also, age sometimes brings wisdom but always brings experience. without living through at least more than one or two eras of elections & governments and pondering & literally experiencing the differences therein, even with the very imperfect two-party system we are stuck with, it is all too easy to demand nothing less than your perfect ideal or consider only what you want it to do for you as an individual. these approaches often, i would say usually, help your country as a whole get absolutely nowhere or actually regress. time has taught me and millions of other people that, not that i don't have a lot to learn; i absolutely do. it's one of the main reasons i read these threads, for those kernels of truth or wisdom. (also for the humor of the wits here, no small gift!)

mr rain pointed out earlier that there were long periods of time when much of the world thought highly of the u.s., which is true, and i would add that if you can't remember such a time, it's hard to believe that you're old enough to vote. people from the u.s. who travel to different countries for extended periods of time can tell you that the changes between how the u.s. is viewed now and how it was viewed as short a time as six years ago are huge -- and don't bode well, for anyone.

The U.S. has really, really done Latin America dirty over the past 100-plus years or so. Mexico, Cuba, Nicaragua, El Salvador and Guatemala leap to mind immediately. This is why I don't get upset over illegal immigration - it is the least we in America can do to let people from these countries come in and do our shit-work. I would love to see some sort of restructuring of the relationships between us and our neighbors to the south based on fairness and mutual cooperation and respect. The Cuba embargo still may work - let's give it another 20 years or so!

excellent points, bjorn. you are one great antidote to lou dobbs.

i just want to thank wendy for knowing when to close a thread and saving some of us from ourselves. THANK YOU, WENDY!

who gets to decide what is appropriate for a 5-year-old?

the bill is dead, and so is this discussion.

typical nyt reporter campaigning for obama instead of reporting the facts.

here, from factcheck.org . if you want to believe that idiocy about obama, go ahead. i agree with steve chapman, former The New Republic editor and contributor to other conservative publications, and quoted at the end of this factcheck.org piece:

Chapman: ... the ad itself doesn't bother explaining how the candidates differ on school vouchers, the subject of my column. Instead, it insults our intelligence by expecting us to believe that Obama thinks kindergarteners should be taught how to use condoms before they're taught to read. Right. And Joe Biden eats puppies for breakfast.

Off Base on Sex Ed

September 10, 2008

A McCain campaign ad claims Obama's "one accomplishment" was a bill to teach sex ed to kindergarten kids. Don't believe it.

Summary

A McCain-Palin campaign ad claims Obama's "one accomplishment" in the area of education was "legislation to teach 'comprehensive sex education' to kindergarteners." But the claim is simply false, and it dates back to Alan Keyes' failed race against Obama for an open Senate seat in 2004.

Obama, contrary to the ad's insinuation, does not support explicit sex education for kindergarteners. And the bill, which would have allowed only "age appropriate" material and a no-questions-asked opt-out policy for parents, was not his accomplishment to claim in any case, since he was not even a cosponsor – and the bill never left the state Senate.

In addition, the ad quotes unflattering assessments of the Illinois senator's record on education but leaves out sometimes equally harsh criticism directed at McCain in the same forums.

Analysis

The ad is called "Education" and has received a good bit of free airtime, having been run repeatedly on cable news networks. It pairs pictures of kindergarten children with Obama looking confused.

A Factual Failure

McCain-Palin 2008 Ad: "Education"

McCain-Palin Ad "Education"

Announcer: Education Week says Obama “hasn’t made a significant mark on education.” That he’s “elusive” on accountability. “A staunch defender of the existing public school monopoly.” Obama’s one accomplishment? Legislation to teach “comprehensive sex education” to kindergarteners. Learning about sex before learning to read? Barack Obama. Wrong on education. Wrong for your family.

John McCain: I’m John McCain and I approved this message.

The ad claims "Obama's one accomplishment" in the realm of education was "legislation to teach 'comprehensive sex education' to kindergarteners."

It's true that the phrase "comprehensive sex education" appeared in the bill, but little else in McCain's claim is accurate. The ad refers to a bill Obama supported in the Illinois state Senate to update the sex education curriculum and make it "medically accurate." It would have lowered the age at which students would begin what the bill termed "comprehensive sex education" to include kindergarten. But it mandated the instruction be "age-appropriate" for kindergarteners when addressing topics such as sexually transmitted diseases. The bill also would have granted parents the opportunity to remove their children from the class without question:

SB 99: However, no pupil shall be required to take or participate in any family life class or course on HIV AIDS or family life instruction if his parent or guardian submits written objection thereto, and refusal to take or participate in such course or program shall not be reason for suspension or expulsion of such pupil.

The bill also called for all sex education course materials to include information that would help students recognize, among other activities, inappropriate touching, sexual assault and rape:

SB99: Course material and instruction shall discuss and provide

for the development of positive communication skills to maintain healthy relationships and avoid unwanted sexual activity. ... Course material and instruction shall teach pupils ... how to say no to unwanted sexual advances ... and shall include information about verbal, physical, and visual sexual harassment, including without limitation nonconsensual sexual advances, nonconsensual physical sexual contact, and rape by an acquaintance. The course material and instruction shall contain methods of preventing sexual assault by an acquaintance, including exercising good judgment and avoiding behavior that impairs one's judgment.

The bill passed in the Health and Human Services Committee with Democrats, including Obama, voting along party lines in support of it. But the measure promptly stalled and died in the full Senate, and no action has been taken on it since late 2005.

Obama is often quoted as saying that when it comes to sex education in public schools, “it’s the right thing to do ... to provide age-appropriate sex education, science-based sex education in schools,” placing an emphasis on the word "appropriate." But Obama has also said he does not support, "explicit sex education to children in kindergarten."

In a debate with Republican Alan Keyes, against whom Obama was running for an open seat in the U.S. Senate in 2004, Obama made it clear that at least one reason he supported the bill was that it would help teach young kids to recognize inappropriate behavior and pedophiles:

Keyes, Oct. 21, 2004: Well, I had noticed that, in your voting, you had voted, at one point, that sex education should begin in kindergarten, and you justified it by saying that it would be "age-appropriate" sex education. [it] made me wonder just exactly what you think is "age-appropriate."

Obama: We have a existing law that mandates sex education in the schools. We want to make sure that it's medically accurate and age-appropriate. Now, I'll give you an example, because I have a six-year-old daughter and a three-year-old daughter, and one of the things my wife and I talked to our daughter about is the possibility of somebody touching them inappropriately, and what that might mean. And that was included specifically in the law, so that kindergarteners are able to exercise some possible protection against abuse, because I have family members as well as friends who suffered abuse at that age. So, that's the kind of stuff that I was talking about in that piece of legislation.

Besides the Obama-Keyes race, this allegation also surfaced during this year's party primaries when Mitt Romney claimed Obama supported sex education for five-year-olds. (Obama misleadingly fired back that Romney supported the same policy.)

. . .

Cherry-Picking Quotes

The ad also features three cherry-picked quotes from the media, highlighting negative comments about Obama's record and ignoring those directed at McCain. The announcer quotes Education Week contributing blogger David Hoff, saying, "Education Week says Obama 'hasn't made a significant mark on education.' " The quote is accurate. But the ad leaves out a quote Hoff gathered from Arizona's Casa Grande Elementary School Superintendent Frank Davidson:

Davidson (via Education Week): I don’t think [McCain] has a strong track record of putting education at the top of his priorities.

McCain had used the information about Obama before, and in response, blogger Hoff encouraged readers of the magazine's election blog to "Read the Obama story and the McCain story and you can decide who has a better track record on K-12 issues." We agree, you should.

The ad then quotes a July 7 editorial from The Washington Post, which said "that he's 'elusive' on accountability." Those words did appear in The Post's July 7 editorial. At the time, McCain had no education plan to critique, but later, in August, The Post revisited both candidates' proposals and said McCain's was "both late in coming and still a work in progress." It also said "of the two, Mr. Obama has given the issue more attention."

The last quote used in McCain's ad is attributed to the Chicago Tribune and says that Obama is "a 'staunch defender of the existing public school monopoly.' " This is actually from a piece by Steve Chapman, former associate editor of The New Republic and contributing writer to Slate and the conservative publications The Weekly Standard and The National Review. The piece isn't a Chicago Tribune editorial at all, though it's made to appear that way in the ad. And Chapman, none too pleased about how his opinion piece was featured in the ad, responded in a Sept. 10 Tribune blog entry with this:

Chapman: ... the ad itself doesn't bother explaining how the candidates differ on school vouchers, the subject of my column. Instead, it insults our intelligence by expecting us to believe that Obama thinks kindergarteners should be taught how to use condoms before they're taught to read. Right. And Joe Biden eats puppies for breakfast.

We couldn't have said it better, Mr. Chapman.

–by Emi Kolawole

Sources

Krol, Eric. "Obama clarifies sex ed views at Benedictine," Chicago Daily Herald. 6 Oct. 2004.

Hoff, David. McCain vs. Obama: The Whole Story. 29 Mar. 2008. Education Week. 10 Sep. 2008.

Editorial. Focus on School Reform. 7 Jul. 2008. The Washington Post. 10 Sep. 2008.

Bill Status SB099. Illinois General Assembly.

Copyright

typical nyt reporter campaigning for obama instead of reporting the facts.

typical kwall, not even able to appreciate a report that looks at the distortions by the obama campaign as well as the mccain campaign. i guess i'll go back to reports that focus almost exclusively on the lies and distortions of the mccain campaign, which tend to be far more egregious and plentiful. thanks so much for helping me see the light.

best of luck to everyone in ike's path! including this guy, whose approach needs a little work:

"This is nature meets the proud United States of America, and my US of A is going to win."

ROBERT SHUMAKE, of Galveston, Tex., on the approach of Hurricane Ike.

The New York Times

September 13, 2008

McCain Barbs Stirring Outcry as Distortions

By MICHAEL COOPER and JIM RUTENBERG

Harsh advertisements and negative attacks are a staple of presidential campaigns, but Senator John McCain has drawn an avalanche of criticism this week from Democrats, independent groups and even some Republicans for regularly stretching the truth in attacking Senator Barack Obama

haha, check out mcSAME checking out palin,....funny thing is when i first saw this on tv this was the first thing i noticed too!, said to myself, wow look at him how hes looking at her, did you know he was cheating on his first wife (who was also a beauty queen) while she was crippled after being in a car accident? the man makes me sick. god help us if they win.

 

this was posted before, and i'm not sure i buy it. wasn't he standing next to her rather than behind her? i thought he was merely looking at her notes on the podium. seriously, i'm not sure the interpretation is fair. i know he's not too sharp, but it's hard to believe he'd be that obvious.

i actually left the homestead today and noticed sarah palin on the cover of Newsweek with a rifle slung over her shoulder. someone maybe should advise her not to allow that type of photograph anymore. it literally looks like she's aiming to follow in the steps of our current vice president, who as we all know went out looking something like she does and shot his friend in the face. it just isn't a good association to call up.

The moderators say they'll follow abusive behavior to the Gates of Hell, but they won't even follow it to the cave where Sarah Palin hides from the media.

 

 

I dunno, that didn't even make sense, did it? Carry on.

how are ya doing at work today, q? getting a lot done?

this is one of my all-time favorite threads (before jack'swow pic, that is -- well, maybe even with it, need to examine it some more). i'm not kidding. i read it to my husband last night and we laughed our guts out, just because it's so delightful. it has a sneaky charm.

Well, the great thing about this new strain of (brain eating?) super lice, is that they’re easy to find.

 

No more fussing with those tight bristled little combs, you can pretty much “weed” these suckers out with a hammer.

 

important question: on my mac, if i hit control and then click on that pic, could it become my desktop?

When are the Red Sox buying Hanley Ramirez? We seem to be short a Ramirez and there are still a lot of t-shirts out there.

we are definitely short a ramirez. i still miss the guy. it helps a little bit, though, when bay does things like run to back up third base before anyone else knows he'll be needed there. manny would still be standing out in left field. but i STILL miss the guy! it's easier to miss him when the team has stepped up, though. pedroia is absolutely delightful to watch -- he never stops surprising me.

One thing I loved about Huckabee's candidacy was always Chuck Norris in the background.

that part of huckabee's run passed me by, and i'm devastated.

Although I am apt to watch only the Retro TV Channel these days, last night I clicked on CNN and Chuck Norris was on Larry King talking about his new book:

 

Black Belt Patriotism: How to Reawaken America

 

At some point, Chuck said some stuff about how we are not dealing with the issues - right after he said that, Larry played the lipstick pig video twice, and asked Chuck his view of that. Funny stuff. I think Arina Huffington, and Ari Fleischer, were on also.

wow, chuck norris? does he really talk? that larry "played the lipstick pig video twice" does it for me, though, right there. no need to go on.

One year, my favorite team's closer seemed like a disaster. Every time he entered the game, I gritted my teeth, because it was extremely rare that he'd have a 1-2-3 inning -- he usually gave up a hit or two, maybe with a walk thrown in, and possibly some runs. He was my least favorite player on the team, and I frequently complained to a friend of mine that the team should just get rid of him. I think my hair started going gray that year, and he was probably part of the reason.

 

 

The year: 1990

The team: Chicago White Sox

The closer: Bobby Thigpen, who just happened to set the MLB record that year with 57 saves, a record that still stands (though K-Rod will probably break it this month).

oh. i thought you might be talking about eric gagne last year with the r. sox.

bobbob, neil young's "imagine" is incredible.

that morning, unlike most mornings, i turned on the tv news for some reason. within two minutes they were showing the first plane hit, and then i saw the second one hit. then the collapses. i was glued to the tv for that day and probably several days after, crying and trying to absorb it. within a week, it seemed like something that could never be fully absorbed. as time went on, i felt grief not only for the people that day but also for the changes that we as a country would go through, even though i had no idea what those changes would be. i just knew an innocence was lost forever, an innocence i didn't even know i and other americans had had.

at some point -- weeks later? months later? a year or two later? -- i realized we truly were not alone, in the several senses of that word. at first that was because so much of the rest of the world was mourning with us and felt a kinship with us. then it became this: this kind of tragedy and vulnerability in the place where we live was new and shocking to us. for many other people around the world, though, it is always a possibility and sometimes a reality that they live with every single day. over and over and over. we weren't different, we weren't alone -- it can happen anywhere, and does. so the grief widened to cover people i would never meet but who live with their own 9/11s or very real possibilities of them all the time. that realization was a bigger loss of innocence than i ever could have imagined. in the long run it probably made me a "better" person, a stronger person, but also a sadder person who would never again be able to take for granted a feeling of safety, an assumed kind of existence that i now knew many people the world over never had to begin with and would never have.