Stupid AND evil ...

[Guest Speed Racer]

okay. Im glad I won't be here in another 75 years. You obviously feel differently -- enjoy.

 

I just don't understand statements like, 'because of this country I won't have kids'. It's crap. I don't agree with many actions and inactions the government has undertaken of late, but I am beginning to see the wonders of parenthood and the joys of just being around kids (I'm 21, and am not a parent myself). Watching parents I know that have young kids, and truly seeing that kind of joy and hope and love that I know I can't fathom, then I think what you said is crap.

 

OR

 

It's like not inviting your girlfriend over because you think she won't like your place. Get over it - if she loves you, she'll help you clean it up. She'll be disgusted, she'll probably poke fun at you, and she may even throw out your complete set of toenails you lost when you completed the Ironman in Hawaii when you were 25 (not that my uncle would know...). But she loves you, and she wants a better future (sans toenails) for both of you.

 

Or you'll marry and she'll chase you down the street throwing china (how ironic...) at you. The point is, it's stupid not to try.

[solace]

while i don't care to ever have children myself, i too kind of find that argument silly.

 

hell, you should WANT to have like 20 children and bring them up right, and teach them what is wrong with our country. maybe if more people had that attitude we wouldn't have to choose between 2 piss poor candidates.

[viatroy]

My outlook is not about living in the US, or about the opportunity to instill your values in your progeny. It's about the state of the world. My perspective comes, in part, from being 47 instead of 21, and having lived through alot of changes, most of them not for the better. Overpopulation, in fact, being one of the worst stressors on the planet and the quality of life. Everyone loves parenthood, and there's a built-in biological drive to see that your DNA carries on. On a pragmatic rather than biological and emotional level though, there are some serious planetary and geopolitical imbalances that are going to be very difficult if not impossible to address.

 

The way it looks to me, the next century is going to bring:

 

- a shift in geopolitical power (China, anyone?)

- continued worldwide exponential population growth

- depleted natural resources, (including oil, without sufficient alternatives to replace it)

- continued aggression as the fight for resources (including water and arable land) becomes more a matter of survival than greed

- growing disparities between the richest and poorest

- continued growth of technology placing greater demands on resources

- more "rogue" nuke states

- political movements tending more towards the right than left

- uh, global warming, anyone?

- Im not one to think that technological innovation is going to save our asses. Quite the contrary.

 

If I were just starting out, I'd be hoping for the best too, rather than reflecting on the direction things appear to be heading. It's hard to take in all those possiblities when you're just trying to stand on your own two feet and do the best you can in your own little sphere. I'd rather think the world will be peaceful, bucolic and offer plentiful resources, but I don't see any trends that lead me to expect that's the reality of the situation.

[Dreamin']

hell, you should WANT to have like 20 children and bring them up right, and teach them what is wrong with our country. maybe if more people had that attitude we wouldn't have to choose between 2 piss poor candidates.

"breed a little liberal army in the wood" - Lou Reed

 

I empathize with viatroy. Unfortunately, I do fear that we're headed toward a major collapse (maybe I should stop reading that Jared Diamond book) and it's hard to be optimistic about the future. Sometimes, I wonder if I will even recognize my own country in 15-20 years because we seem to be headed down a slippery slope which may make Canadian sovereignty moot.

 

The only way I cope is by trying to live in the here and now as much as possible.

[Guest ScottHoward]

Jesus Fucking Christ some of you people are nuts.

 

Just live your life and try to enjoy as much of it as you can.

[viatroy]

Just live your life and try to enjoy as much of it as you can.

 

I do that. I also think that mankind is on it's way out. Not in my lifetime, probably, but in the next couple hundred years? Certainly a possibility.

[cryptique]

My outlook is not about living in the US, or about the opportunity to instill your values in your progeny. It's about the state of the world. My perspective comes, in part, from being 47 instead of 21, and having lived through alot of changes, most of them not for the better. Overpopulation, in fact, being one of the worst stressors on the planet and the quality of life. Everyone loves parenthood, and there's a built-in biological drive to see that your DNA carries on. On a pragmatic rather than biological and emotional level though, there are some serious planetary and geopolitical imbalances that are going to be very difficult if not impossible to address.

 

The way it looks to me, the next century is going to bring:

 

- a shift in geopolitical power (China, anyone?)

- continued worldwide exponential population growth

- depleted natural resources, (including oil, without sufficient alternatives to replace it)

- continued aggression as the fight for resources (including water and arable land) becomes more a matter of survival than greed

- growing disparities between the richest and poorest

- continued growth of technology placing greater demands on resources

- more "rogue" nuke states

- political movements tending more towards the right than left

- uh, global warming, anyone?

- Im not one to think that technological innovation is going to save our asses. Quite the contrary.

 

If I were just starting out, I'd be hoping for the best too, rather than reflecting on the direction things appear to be heading. It's hard to take in all those possiblities when you're just trying to stand on your own two feet and do the best you can in your own little sphere. I'd rather think the world will be peaceful, bucolic and offer plentiful resources, but I don't see any trends that lead me to expect that's the reality of the situation.

This is more or less where I am on the subject, too -- however, those concerns are secondary for me, behind the fact that I simply have no desire to raise children. Being a parent doesn't interest me in the slightest, and I don't feel any biological imperative to populate the earth with little cryptiques.

 

Yes, those feelings are reinforced by my cynicism about the state of the world, but I can't say for sure that the fucked-up world, alone, would prevent me from having kids.

[embiggen]

judgement! judgement on you all!

[solace]

This is more or less where I am on the subject, too -- however, those concerns are secondary for me, behind the fact that I simply have no desire to raise children. Being a parent doesn't interest me in the slightest, and I don't feel any biological imperative to populate the earth with little cryptiques.

 

Yes, those feelings are reinforced by my cynicism about the state of the world, but I can't say for sure that the fucked-up world, alone, would prevent me from having kids.

*nod*

[Guest ScottHoward]

I do that. I also think that mankind is on it's way out. Not in my lifetime, probably, but in the next couple hundred years? Certainly a possibility.

It's also a possibility that it could all end today. For everyone.

 

Would I ever even contemplate not having children because of China, foreign countries' nuclear capabilities and Republican party policies? No fucking chance.

[Guest baseball bobblehead]

judgement! judgement on you all!

you can have my eggs. i'm not usin' 'em.

[EL the Famous]

The way it looks to me, the next century is going to bring:

 

- a shift in geopolitical power (China, anyone?)

- continued worldwide exponential population growth

- depleted natural resources, (including oil, without sufficient alternatives to replace it)

- continued aggression as the fight for resources (including water and arable land) becomes more a matter of survival than greed

- growing disparities between the richest and poorest

- continued growth of technology placing greater demands on resources

- more "rogue" nuke states

- political movements tending more towards the right than left

- uh, global warming, anyone?

- Im not one to think that technological innovation is going to save our asses. Quite the contrary.

 

Maybe to a lesser degree, but a large part of those things have been happening in one way or another for centuries prior. I understand where you're coming from and i'm not angry at you for feeling like that...I am, however, angry that you and countless others do feel like that. I'm not discounting that any of these things needs to be addressed, but running from them won't make them go away...not moving forward and living your life, won't make them go away...not having kids, won't make them go away...soldiering on and trying to make them go away, that may have a chance.

 

First and foremost, I hold myself accountable for my life and how it's going. Sure, i'm a white hetero male from a middle class upbringing and have had everything handed to me on a silver platter (tounge firmly planted in cheek) to bring about my problem-free existence where everything is sunny everyday and everything I need from money to food to insurance is air-dropped into my backyard by magical helicopters piloted by angels, but I still try to chart my own destiny when I can. If something pops up via whatever administration is in power that challenges how I want to live my life, I do whatever is in my power to overcome it versus waiting for somebody to remove it for me. Do I need help sometimes? Hell yes. We all do at some point in our life, but to sit back and wait for it and rely on it brings the entitlement word thrown around yesterday to mind and, IMHO, that is what will be our undoing, not any of the items listed above.

 

you can have my eggs. i'm not usin' 'em.

 

you want to throw out jibes? well then...thank god for that.

[viatroy]

In reality, if I were in the early vs. waning reproductive years, the drive to bear offspring would probably beat out the intellectual considerations of the future of the world. We're just built that way. The biological imperative is strong. Doesn't mean the world isn't going to hell in a handbasket tho.

 

The problem with that Kevin is that, however hard we may kick and scream and try to influence the powers that be, the example of Bush vetoing embryonic stem cell research shows us that the majority does not rule....especially not the likes of you (althou that helipad gives you a leg up) and me with my single-unsupported-working-mom-non-profit-loving-corporate-greed-hating bad liberal attitude.

[Guest baseball bobblehead]

you want to throw out jibes? well then...thank god for that.

 

what the fuck does that mean? if there was an easy and not incredibly painful way to donate my eggs to folks who needed them i'd be at the egg donation place every month! What the hell jibe was i throwing out? jesus christ, go to fucking lunch, daddy.

[Guest Jules]

My outlook is not about living in the US, or about the opportunity to instill your values in your progeny. It's about the state of the world. My perspective comes, in part, from being 47 instead of 21, and having lived through alot of changes, most of them not for the better. Overpopulation, in fact, being one of the worst stressors on the planet and the quality of life. Everyone loves parenthood, and there's a built-in biological drive to see that your DNA carries on. On a pragmatic rather than biological and emotional level though, there are some serious planetary and geopolitical imbalances that are going to be very difficult if not impossible to address.

 

The way it looks to me, the next century is going to bring:

 

- a shift in geopolitical power (China, anyone?)

- continued worldwide exponential population growth

- depleted natural resources, (including oil, without sufficient alternatives to replace it)

- continued aggression as the fight for resources (including water and arable land) becomes more a matter of survival than greed

- growing disparities between the richest and poorest

- continued growth of technology placing greater demands on resources

- more "rogue" nuke states

- political movements tending more towards the right than left

- uh, global warming, anyone?

- Im not one to think that technological innovation is going to save our asses. Quite the contrary.

 

If I were just starting out, I'd be hoping for the best too, rather than reflecting on the direction things appear to be heading. It's hard to take in all those possiblities when you're just trying to stand on your own two feet and do the best you can in your own little sphere. I'd rather think the world will be peaceful, bucolic and offer plentiful resources, but I don't see any trends that lead me to expect that's the reality of the situation.

 

Are you personally doing anything to help the world "be peaceful, bucolic and offer plentiful resources"?

 

I'll buy that the worlds resources are stretched, and everyone should consider this when they're thinking about having children, or MORE children. The rest of this is just fear mongering.

[embiggen]

you can have my eggs. i'm not usin' 'em.

 

thanks, but I already have some

[wheelco]

yes, but I thought this masterful display of his 3rd grade understanding of world geography added a new twist.

 

Oh, Canada!

canada's big too . . . hey, how long does it take to fly across Canada? 5 hours, no shit?

 

[EL the Famous]

what the fuck does that mean? if there was an easy and not incredibly painful way to donate my eggs to folks who needed them i'd be at the egg donation place every month! What the hell jibe was i throwing out? jesus christ, go to fucking lunch, daddy.

 

I sincerely apologize then. My mistake, I was an asshole for jumping to conclusions and good for you for feeling like that. Seriously. You're right, I obviously need to go to lunch...a long one.

[Guest baseball bobblehead]

thanks, but I already have some

just as well. mine all have buck teef and a crazy sense of what's right and wrong. No one wants that!

[embiggen]

just as well. mine all have buck teef and a crazy sense of what's right and wrong. No one wants that!

 

well mine are neurotic and unsure of themselves. who the hell wants that?

[Lammycat]

Trying to pick through all of the "reputable" media outlets (and yeah, some are "right-wing conservative, dammit!" and some are " lefty-biased bastards!") is difficult enough these days to glean a fair and realistic take on what is actually going down in this country and abroad. The fact-based news that trickles down to our collective commoner ears through the media is often so watered down it's hard to accept a lot of it at face value.

 

Go to a library or book store and the "Politics/Social Issues" sections are crammed with books on how the Right is wrong and is screwing the country over and how the Left have fucked things up beyond repair. I'm all for reasonable political debate, but the general rule the last 15-20 years seems to be to attack the opposing political party's stance, not the issues at hand.

 

It's a daunting task, for myself at least, trying to settle on what and who to believe and trust. Global Warming is an issue that continues to be debated voraciously both by the "Right" and "Left" in the press, as well as in reputable Science labs across across the globe. Scientists cannot agree on the extent or long-term impact of GW. From what I've read/discussed/etc. on the matter, I personally feel a lot of the concern over global warming is unnecessary hype.

 

But that's not the point. Ultimately, my decision was made based on who I choose to listen to/trust media and scientific-wise. It doesn't make me right and you wrong. I very well could be wrong, but it's hard for me to tell.

[viatroy]

well mine are neurotic and unsure of themselves. who the hell wants that?

 

 

you two should have a baby together!

 

 

Lammy, I asked my boss just today if the library could please put a moratorium in place against

buying these ridiculous politically partisan name-calling books. He said no, because they all wind up on the bestsellers' list. I told him we should take a stand. yeah right.

[EL the Famous]

Trying to pick through all of the "reputable" media outlets (and yeah, some are "right-wing conservative, dammit!" and some are " lefty-biased bastards!") is difficult enough these days to glean a fair and realistic take on what is actually going down in this country and abroad. The fact-based news that trickles down to our collective commoner ears through the media is often so watered down it's hard to accept a lot of it at face value.

 

Go to a library or book store and the "Politics/Social Issues" sections are crammed with books on how the Right is wrong and is screwing the country over and how the Left have fucked things up beyond repair. I'm all for reasonable political debate, but the general rule the last 15-20 years seems to be to attack the opposing political party's stance, not the issues at hand.

 

It's a daunting task, for myself at least, trying to settle on what and who to believe and trust. Global Warming is an issue that continues to be debated voraciously both by the "Right" and "Left" in the press, as well as in reputable Science labs across across the globe. Scientists cannot agree on the extent or long-term impact of GW. From what I've read/discussed/etc. on the matter, I personally feel a lot of the concern over global warming is unnecessary hype.

 

But that's not the point. Ultimately, my decision was made based on who I choose to listen to/trust media and scientific-wise. It doesn't make me right and you wrong. I very well could be wrong, but it's hard for me to tell.

 

You just summed up exactly how I feel and why I feel wary of anything be relayed as an absolute by either side of the divide, even though i'm card-carrying-bleed blue state blood-democrat. Plain and simple.

[EL the Famous]

Lammy, I asked my boss just today if the library could please put a moratorium in place against

buying these ridiculous politically partisan name-calling books. He said no, because they all wind up on the bestsellers' list. I told him we should take a stand. yeah right.

 

Regardless, good for you. Seriously. I know it's borderline censorship for me to agree w/ that, but it's those books and point/counterpoint shows that are completely driving us away from the actual issues...and why the Daily Show and Colbert Report are, hands down, the smartest shows on television.

[viatroy]

Are you personally doing anything to help the world "be peaceful, bucolic and offer plentiful resources"?

 

I'll buy that the worlds resources are stretched, and everyone should consider this when they're thinking about having children, or MORE children. The rest of this is just fear mongering.

 

Well that's the bottom line on all this -- resource depletion.

 

I probably don't do as much as I could/should, partly because I think citizen participation in the political process has become moot. I contribute to causes I deem worthy. (Let me tell ya, my kids were thrilled last Christmas when I gave gifts in their honor to heifer.org )

 

I was very much the activist as a young adult -- before the advent of my family and the need to support them became the top priority. I drive a Civic, try to live in as nonmaterialistic manner as possible, grow some of my own food (not enough -- those damn Swiss Cake Rolls just dont grow in Zone 5! ), don't kill critters (except millipedes and mosquitos), eat very little meat, dry my clothes on a clothesline, hug trees and try not to participate in the greedy consume-mass-quantities mindset that dominates this culture. To that end, I have always worked for nonprofits. I would be run out of a corporate setting on a rail for my leftist leanings, and would like to see a system of socialism that really worked (cuz there just ain't much trickling down). My fondest dream is to build and live on my off-the-grid property, for whatever all that's worth.

 

I also smoke, travel too much in my Civic, use appliances, burn wood for heat, and have an unnatural love of extreme air conditioning. Also fwiw, I've long contemplated hanging a peace symbol flag off my house, but fear that would target me for some sort of hate crime.

 

I also like Wilco.