Discuss the merits of this statement:

[Sir Stewart]

Literally.

[Matt R.]

Sorry for sounding hasty, I just feel like I am being ignored. I seriously don't wish any ill feelings towards the original poster.

 

But, no one should discuss the merits of a statement that was never made, thats all. This makes "that person" or "me" look like an idiot.

[caliber66]

People discuss hypothetical statements all the time. Just because you made a similar statement on another message board, which was misquoted in the opening post, doesn't mean the discussion of the new ("incorrect") statement is invalid. It's okay, man. Nobody thinks any less of you because this thread doesn't maintain the original intent of your post from somewhere else.

[Guest Jules]

I never said that, actually no one ever said that.

 

Fuck the original poster for his ability to not be able to read a thread and start this.

[lost highway]

Summerteeth>Sky Blue Sky.

C'mon, She's A Jar? Via Chicago? Really, now.

 

Apples and oranges my friend, so you're more of a citrus man I see. The thing that I love about Summerteeth, (and if anyone can relate to this hollerback so I don't feel like an island) is that it is simultaneously the best and worst Wilco album. Moment to moment and song to song I think it has some of their biggest break throughs and biggest mistakes. They took risks and thats awesome. It seems their gambling brought more consistent returns come YHF but that album exhibits so much of what they learned from Summerteeth.

[You Can Be The Stone]

Summerteeth>Sky Blue Sky.

C'mon, She's A Jar? Via Chicago? Really, now.

 

 

"our voices lift so easily / a gift given accidentally / when we're not sure we're not alone"

>>>>>>> "i dreamed about killing you again last night and it felt alright to me".

[caliber66]

(and if anyone can relate to this hollerback so I don't feel like an island)

[giraffo]

> I have a question: what's so thrilling about Summerteeth, and those early albums?

 

uh, people have different tastes?

 

I realize this, that's why I didn't say I thought the album was bad or stupid. I like bits of it, but a lot of it sounds like a lot of things I've heard before musically or productionwise [for instance, the Foo Fighters from the same period, or Pearl Jam] so I was just wondering what people thought. I liked YHF and AGiB more than ST or SBS I suppose because of the immediate care idiosyncrasies in the lyrics and songs themselves. For instance: 'The ashtray says you've been up all night' is a really good line, but "I am an american aquarium drinker'" feel more quirky and inspired, leaving more room for the listener to participate. On YHF there's all this care packed into making sure little bits are picked up on and certain things sound the way they do. On ST it's all more or less on the same level and it's just loud more than anything else. I suppose that's why I dig "She's a Jar", given that it's such a weird song lyrically and there are some mellow spots for quirky things to sink in. I just feel like the whole album sits on a fence on whether or not it wants to be happy or sad musically.

 

Pardon me for saying so, but this is a really dumb question to post on a WILCO FORUM.

 

I always found this idea of fandom perplexing. Just because I am a fan does not mean I like everything the band has done. I find it more listenable than the radio or something, but I've seen with other groups where people become fans and automatically latch onto everything that was done by them great.

[Littlebear]

The thing that I love about Summerteeth, (and if anyone can relate to this hollerback so I don't feel like an island) is that it is simultaneously the best and worst Wilco album. Moment to moment and song to song I think it has some of their biggest break throughs and biggest mistakes.

 

I don't hear any mistake in this album. To the very least, I'd say some songs (mostly the up tempo stuff) are kinda old now, but the worse is "cool" to my ears. And the best is just wonderful.

[Littlebear]

I realize this, that's why I didn't say I thought the album was bad or stupid. I like bits of it, but a lot of it sounds like a lot of things I've heard before musically or productionwise [for instance, the Foo Fighters from the same period, or Pearl Jam] so I was just wondering what people thought. I liked YHF and AGiB more than ST or SBS I suppose because of the immediate care idiosyncrasies in the lyrics and songs themselves. For instance: 'The ashtray says you've been up all night' is a really good line, but "I am an american aquarium drinker'" feel more quirky and inspired, leaving more room for the listener to participate. On YHF there's all this care packed into making sure little bits are picked up on and certain things sound the way they do. On ST it's all more or less on the same level and it's just loud more than anything else. I suppose that's why I dig "She's a Jar", given that it's such a weird song lyrically and there are some mellow spots for quirky things to sink in. I just feel like the whole album sits on a fence on whether or not it wants to be happy or sad musically.

I always found this idea of fandom perplexing. Just because I am a fan does not mean I like everything the band has done. I find it more listenable than the radio or something, but I've seen with other groups where people become fans and automatically latch onto everything that was done by them great.

 

Well, see, I find YHF totally overrated, and nothing on it can top the best of Summerteeth - but I don't feel the need to state that opinion on this forum, knowing how much fans of YHF are around - what's the use? I guess there are many different ways to enjoy one album. Discussing on forums lead me to that observation long since - none of us enjoy one album the same way. None. We all disagree on some songs, moments in songs, etc.

[cryptique]

I always found this idea of fandom perplexing. Just because I am a fan does not mean I like everything the band has done. I find it more listenable than the radio or something, but I've seen with other groups where people become fans and automatically latch onto everything that was done by them great.

That wasn't the point of my comment. Asking a question like that in a place like this isn't all that far from trolling (if it's different at all), especially when it's asked in such a loaded way.

 

Personally, I am far from a Wilco sycophant ... I have long maintained that A Ghost Is Born was a step back for them, and it's probably my least favorite of their albums. This puts me at odds with the vast majority of people here. On the other hand, I love Sky Blue Sky, so I think they've since recovered.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I have long maintained that A Ghost Is Born was a step back for them, and it's probably my least favorite of their albums. This puts me at odds with the vast majority of people here.

Not me. I'm with you 100% on that one. And I agree with you on SBS too.

[coast to coast]

On Summerteeth, Jeff Tweedy was experimenting with electronic pop for the sake of revealing its emptyness.

 

This is from an argument I'm having on another board, and I'm just curious to see what the thoughts might be from this place.

 

I think they were trying to make really sweet music with really dark/confusing/obscure/image-heavy, non-trad. wilco lyrics... not that i want ot sum it up in one glib sentence or anything but i don't think he was trying to show how hollow it was, just create some tension between things that seem to be pulling in different directions. frankly, i'm not sure how over the top is supposed to be or whether it's just a bit dated at this stage, cos i didn't listen to it when it came out and in comparison with the previous (the rootsy but still fleetingly experimental Being There) it is quite a leap. For me the record is over-produced... not in terms of making something sweet sounding is over-done in principal, just this record's particulars. I don't like the sound of some of it. ELT is a brilliant song hidden underneath all that synthesiser. I think YHF goes was even more expansive and expressive in terms of pallette and exectuion, better mixed, better drummer and other little details. I prefer the sound of AGIB to all of those though... the way the sound seems so untreated. Maybe its the tape or the mix but whatever it is, it seems so precise, even when Tweedy is tearing it up on the skronky, craggy guitar solos. Like Being There but way better!

 

Summerteeth has dated badly... would people agree? I think it has, especially when put beside YHF. Drums sound cock.

[coast to coast]

That's harshing the mellow a bit, man. Tweedy may not write with the explicitness of Jarvis Cocker, but his lyrics make sense in an impressionistic way.

 

In fairness its not like you couldn't make up a very similar sentence about Thom Yorke's lyrics (regard the Tweedy-NPR stoner love-in jam band connotations!) They're both very good songwriters but I prefer Wilco and Tweedy. Yorke seems so disillusioned by writing a normal song... theres a very apt Elliott Smith quote about this when he's talking about songwriting "It'd be a drag if you have to battle conventions all the time." Then he says "you can make conventions work for you" or something like that. I see where he's coming from - Radiohead had a fucking huge drag making Kid A. And when did Hail To The Thief come out? 2005? And their next? Its not as if his lyrics are in especially succint succinct these days. There's a huge denial that Radiohead haven't gone backwards lyrically since OK Computer... Whereas Tweedy and Wilco some more and more at ease with their progression. I'm not saying this is either good or bad, but it is interesting to see how thier careers have developed.

 

 

Also I still can never remember which of these signs mean anything ">" and "

[tongue-tied]

Also I still can never remember which of these signs mean anything ">" and "

 

The alligator eats the bigger prey.

[bjorn_skurj]

In fairness its not like you couldn't make up a very similar sentence about Thom Yorke's lyrics (regard the Tweedy-NPR stoner love-in jam band connotations!) They're both very good songwriters but I prefer Wilco and Tweedy. Yorke seems so disillusioned by writing a normal song... theres a very apt Elliott Smith quote about this when he's talking about songwriting "It'd be a drag if you have to battle conventions all the time." Then he says "you can make conventions work for you" or something like that. I see where he's coming from - Radiohead had a fucking huge drag making Kid A. And when did Hail To The Thief come out? 2005? And their next? Its not as if his lyrics are in especially succint succinct these days. There's a huge denial that Radiohead haven't gone backwards lyrically since OK Computer... Whereas Tweedy and Wilco some more and more at ease with their progression. I'm not saying this is either good or bad, but it is interesting to see how thier careers have developed.

Also I still can never remember which of these signs mean anything ">" and "

I always thought of it as the shark going after the more fish. Seeing "Jaws" at a young age put teh zap on my head.

 

I find myself liking Radiohead less and less these days and Wilco more and more. Thom Yorke is a talented dude, but I think he secretly hates making music and may hate music altogether.

[Basil II]

Thom Yorke hates his bread and butter.............makes perfect sense.

 

 

 

-Robert.

[caliber66]

Thom Yorke hates his bread and butter.............makes perfect sense.

-Robert.

Tons of people hate their jobs.

[Matt R.]

Kid A (2OOO) - Amnesiac (2001) - Hail to the Thief (2003)

 

 

I think that Kid A as a response to Ok Computer is a great definition on Thom's view of music. Radiohead's quick acceptence and universal highlight didn't help someone like Thom Yorke cope with stardom (something he didn't want).

 

The same can't be said for Wilco. The Yankee Hotel Foxtrot debacle is one thing, but Wilco still hasn't had to deal with huge expectations or stardom...

[lost highway]

Their sonic adventures aside I find them terribly hard to compare. Wilco sounds infinitely more comforting because they use folk and classic rock as taking off points for whatever stylistic innovations they offer whereas Radiohead seems to jump from a more avant classic rock (Pink Floyd and much scarier kraut rock stuff) and total electronica. This makes Radiohead feel a lot more cold their songs about alienation sound so much more alien, like being lost in space. YHF seems like being lost in the space we call America.

 

They're interesting to compare because they're two of the most relevant and adventerous bands that sell that many records. I always imagine them the Flaming Lips and MMJ being this tiny club of huge bands that matter.

[Wilco LP #7]

On Summerteeth, Jeff Tweedy was experimenting with electronic pop for the sake of revealing its emptyness.

 

This is from an argument I'm having on another board, and I'm just curious to see what the thoughts might be from this place.

 

Well, it's just not true. Although Tweedy definitely encouraged the electronic stuff, it was Bennett that was going nuts with it, and was his idea. And the band saw it as a way to uniquely underscore the horrors evoked by the dark lyrics, not as a form of satire. It's pretty rare that Tweedy does anything musically that's anything short of sincere.

[coast to coast]

In terms of finding out a bit about the gestation of the albums up to YHF, is Greg Kot's book any good? Or is one of those one day books where you learn about 10 facts but mostly know the entire story already (like most music books!)?

[Sir Stewart]

In terms of finding out a bit about the gestation of the albums up to YHF, is Greg Kot's book any good? Or is one of those one day books where you learn about 10 facts but mostly know the entire story already (like most music books!)?

It's no Hammer of the Gods.

But you get a nice play-by-play of the changing of the guards.