Dick Ctionary Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 ok then... just trying to get this straight, there's 'Planned Parenthood' the organisation, and there's 'planned parenthood' the euphamism.... neither are that commonly referred to here in the uk, so I just want to clear things up...? Yeah tb, I think that's about right. I was refering to the euphomism not the group. euphemism Link to post Share on other sites
tblair Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 Not to stick my nose in too far here, but I think the "poverty" and "education" pieces go hand-in-hand.yep, and education. And from what I hear about how certain religious factions are influencing education, by attempting - and seemingly succeeding - to stop evolution being taught in favour of creationism, it's a very relevant point.. euphemismta Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 Because I have a hard time believing most Americans think of abortion as a good thing.They don't. But most Americans also don't want to see abortion outlawed. Link to post Share on other sites
anodyne Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 the religious right would make it seem as if planned parenthood put a card like this in everyone's hand who walked past their office doors. Link to post Share on other sites
austrya Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 I'd start with blaming religious extremists who won't allow contraception. Since when are Catholics religious extremists? Fwiw, when you get married in a Catholic church you usually get some pretty awesome relationship education and if you pay attention, the things they teach you aren't so confusing if you open your mind a little and pay attention. It's not a bad thing. Link to post Share on other sites
tblair Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 Since when are Catholics religious extremists? Fwiw, when you get married in a Catholic church you usually get some pretty awesome relationship education and if you pay attention, the things they teach you aren't so confusing if you open your mind a little and pay attention. It's not a bad thing.along with rampant HIV infections, and all the misery that that entails, the catholic stance on this seems extreme to me. Link to post Share on other sites
anodyne Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 at least the catholic church has loosened up on the whole geocentric universe model thing. give them a few hundred years to come around to rubbers (no pun intended). Link to post Share on other sites
ikol Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 the way America is often portrayed/percieved here in Europe (along with stories like this one, about 'God's Warriors), I tend to agree.......and it's a little bit scary Yeah, opposition to the killing of fetuses is a scary thing. well, that's a whole other thread (possibly). Maybe we need to get to the bottom of why or how there are as many unwanted pregnancies in the first place before we start denying people their rights. I'd start with blaming religious extremists who won't allow contraception, followed by poor sexual/relationship education, often dictated by [confused] religious beliefs. I'm pretty sure that the people listening to the "religious extremists" and not using contraception aren't the same ones who get abortions. If they think condoms and birth control pills are wrong, they probably aren't huge fans of abortion either. But you are right about poor sex ed. A lot of people don't seem to realize that sex is related to reproduction. It turns out that shooting sperm towards an egg can sometimes lead to pregnancy. yep, and education. And from what I hear about how certain religious factions are influencing education, by attempting - and seemingly succeeding - to stop evolution being taught in favour of creationism, it's a very relevant point.. :ohwellta I'm not at all for teaching creationsim instead of evolution, but it seems unlikely that people are poor because they aren't taught evolution. along with rampant HIV infections, and all the misery that that entails, the catholic stance on this seems extreme to me. Yeah, the Church is definitely responsible for HIV. Nevermind the fact that they also teach no sex outside marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 Y'know, despite the fact that both my parents were out-of-wedlock, unplanned pregnancies, I don't think the state should have the power to force a woman to have a baby she doesn't want to have. It's as simple as that. Link to post Share on other sites
Spawn's dad Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 better stop those teenage kids from not listening to music you like, not having premarital sex, not doing drugs, and from choosing their belief systems. fuckers. Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 Next thing you know these Bible thumping teenagers will start campaigning to say "Wilco is gay - don't listen to it" inserted into their scriptures. Link to post Share on other sites
tblair Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 I'm not at all for teaching creationsim instead of evolution, but it seems unlikely that people are poor because they aren't taught evolution.a very odd kind of logic going on here. Nor sure where anyone suggested anything like that. Yeah, the Church is definitely responsible for HIV. Nevermind the fact that they also teach no sex outside marriage.odd again. Has anyone suggested the church or religion was responsible for HIV? ..... just that they could help to slow the spreading of it. Link to post Share on other sites
ikol Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 a very odd kind of logic going on here. Nor sure where anyone suggested anything like that. I'm full of odd logic. You brought up the evolution thing after quoting someone saying that lack of education and poverty go hand in hand, so I thought you were suggesting something like that. odd again. Has anyone suggested the church or religion was responsible for HIV? ..... just that they could help to slow the spreading of it. If people listened to what the Church was teaching, the spread of HIV would be slowed. Link to post Share on other sites
tblair Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 This part of your response is very confusing....I'm pretty sure that the people listening to the "religious extremists" and not using contraception aren't the same ones who get abortions.what makes you think that? I'd guess that many are exactly those very same peopleIf they think condoms and birth control pills are wrong, they probably aren't huge fans of abortion either. But you are right about poor sex ed. A lot of people don't seem to realize that sex is related to reproduction. It turns out that shooting sperm towards an egg can sometimes lead to pregnancy.It's more like the indoctrination that I worry about. Just because some people in religion say you shouldn't have sex outside of marriage, doesn't mean to say everyone has to agree with it. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Alan Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 i only skimmed this thread, but i didn't see these folks mentioned yet.... www.godhatesfags.com what a lovely bunch of religious folk. and i'm not here to say that all religious people are loons or bad for this country, but to me, it's nearly a character flaw. a weakness if you will. i urge you all to go to youtube and search Sam Harris. the guy is pretty brilliant and is great for the atheist argument, if you can call it that. Link to post Share on other sites
austrya Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 It's more like the indoctrination that I worry about. Just because some people in religion say you shouldn't have sex outside of marriage, doesn't mean to say everyone has to agree with it. That's the point. Why should the church change their views on something just because "everyone" thinks it's ok to do something that the church doesn't agree with. If you had a rule in your house and your kids decided not to follow it, would you then change your views on the subject to appease them? Would that be acceptable? Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 That makes me a little sad to think that being a person of faith is thought of as a character flaw. Using your faith to bully people; that's a character flaw. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Alan Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 That makes me a little sad to think that being a person of faith is thought of as a character flaw. Using your faith to bully people; that's a character flaw.i wasn't trying to bully anyone, just giving my opinion, no name calling or hatred. and the idea of religion being used as a crutch is sad to me. i was raised catholic and have been there and done that. all i witnessed was a bunch of hypocrites that pick and choose which rules they want to follow. it's a joke to me. but whatever gets you through the night. Link to post Share on other sites
Venus Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 That's the point. Why should the church change their views on something just because "everyone" thinks it's ok to do something that the church doesn't agree with. If you had a rule in your house and your kids decided not to follow it, would you then change your views on the subject to appease them? Would that be acceptable? But you do change your rules as the kid grows in age and maturity, right? You tell a 5 year old that bedtime is 8pm, but would you really use that rule for a 15 year old? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Alan Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 But you do change your rules as the kid grows in age and maturity, right? You tell a 5 year old that bedtime is 8pm, but would you really use that rule for a 15 year old?exactly. Link to post Share on other sites
tblair Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 That's the point. Why should the church change their views on something just because "everyone" thinks it's ok to do something that the church doesn't agree with. If you had a rule in your house and your kids decided not to follow it, would you then change your views on the subject to appease them? Would that be acceptable?What I'm partly saying (and it is 4.30 in the morning here, I'm on a not-very-busy-night-shift, but feeling a little fuzzy around the edges!) is that it takes all sorts. I'm quite happy with people being religious and/or having faith, but I don't go around telling these people that they're wrong. Why do people who follow a religion always think, or know even, that their way is better than anyone else's, my religion/god is better than yours etc. It's not as if you're ever going to agree on one religion, are you? So while you lot carry on your never ending lost cause, the rest of us have to put up with all the wars and anger that the futility and frustration that you inevitably experience creates .... .......... THAT depresses me Link to post Share on other sites
austrya Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 I'm not saying that my religion is better than anyone else's. I'm just trying to defend it when we're being called religious extremists. I'm quite happy being Catholic but that doesn't mean that it's the best choice for everyone. It's just the best choice for me. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Alan Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 I'm not saying that my religion is better than anyone else's. I'm just trying to defend it when we're being called religious extremists. I'm quite happy being Catholic but that doesn't mean that it's the best choice for everyone. It's just the best choice for me.i may have missed it, but who called you an extremist? Link to post Share on other sites
austrya Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 I'd start with blaming religious extremists who won't allow contraception, followed by poor sexual/relationship education, often dictated by [confused] religious beliefs. That pretty much sums up how most outsiders view the catholic church... That's what I was trying to defend. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Alan Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 That pretty much sums up how most outsiders view the catholic church... That's what I was trying to defend.i don't see where he mentioned catholics. Link to post Share on other sites
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