Producers

[a.miller]

Is it me, or does a producer have the ability to make a (relatively) weak album great? Or also cripple a great album by changing things too much?

 

For those of you that have put out your own albums, what was the communication/decision process like with a (your) producer/mixer/mastering person? i.e. Not using certain percussion in places, stripping a song down, etc.?

[PopTodd]

Yes, production can completely screw up a really great song. But a weak song will always be a weak song. Good production can make it more interesting, but it will still be a weak song and won't stand up to repeated listens.

[deepseacatfish]

Yes, production can completely screw up a really great song. But a weak song will always be a weak song. Good production can make it more interesting, but it will still be a weak song and won't stand up to repeated listens.

Eh, I kind of disagree here.

 

I think the role of a good producer is not only just to color a song so it sounds more interesting (or conversely more boring) but they also should be in a position to make suggestions as to the whole nature of the songs and the songwriting process. I think the best producers are those people who are intuitively able to hear a greater sound of an entire "album" in the rough sketches of songs that are presented to them. It's not only being able to fit together the pieces of songs to bring out their best elements, but also fitting together songs to create cohesion...and sometimes that means re-writing or reconceptualizing music. I think really great producers are few and far between, and they're often the people who push great musicians to make their best work.

[a.miller]

I think really great producers are few and far between, and they're often the people who push great musicians to make their best work.

I could not agree more. I'm in the middle of having my first album mixed and mastered/"produced". One of my good friends is taking on this task for me. I trust his judgment. He worked in the studio where Beck (among others) recorded his last album with Nigel Godrich and learned some very cool techniques to incorporate. He's also a very well-versed audio engineer.

 

Still, the artist in me cringes just a bit when things get changed. It's always different to build something from the ground up, as opposed to just seeing it when it's done.

[deepseacatfish]

Nice. Yeah, I think it is hard to let go of an album for an artist and stick it in somebody else's hands. Sometimes things benefit the most from really drastic changes, other times it's just those little sound tweaks that can make or break the whole sound. Having someone you trust is probably the most important bit, and certainly experience can't help (and neither can a really finely tuned ear). I think one area where producers can be more aware than artists is in terms of spacing, both in the whole album sense and in how much "space" there is in a given song with panning and number of instruments and the fullness of sound. That's where I think an album like Yankee Hotel Foxtrot really shines in its production work.

[a.miller]

That's where I think an album like Yankee Hotel Foxtrot really shines in its production work.

Amen.

[JerseyMike]

It all depends on the producer. The really great producers usually have thier own sound (Lanois, Lynne) , for better or worse, some get the best sound that suits the artist and get the best out of them (Rubin, O'Brien), whether it writing or preforming. Some just over-produce the shit out of things. (Don Was)

 

That's where I think an album like Yankee Hotel Foxtrot really shines in its production work.

 

Actually, that record really came to life in the mix, according to Wilco. You can really change a record in the mix. They produced it themselves but O'Rourke picked out the right pieces and put them together in the mix. Wilco has done a very good job producing over the years, though, especially on Being There. I would be interested in seeing them use an outside producer, who is not O'Rourke, at some point. Just curious to see what would happen.

[a.miller]

I would be interested in seeing them use an outside producer, who is not O'Rourke, at some point. Just curious to see what would happen.

I am pretty sure Sky Blue Sky meets this criteria.

[deepseacatfish]

Well technically Sky Blue Sky is produced by Wilco, it was mixed by Jim Scott (?) I think, though.

 

It seems to me like in the case of (recent) Wilco records, the mixing fulfills more of the final production process, and the band really just guides the rest of it.

[JerseyMike]

Well technically Sky Blue Sky is produced by Wilco, it was mixed by Jim Scott (?) I think, though.

 

True, but mixing and producing are two different jobs. A producer can be involved in everything from writing (or suggesting and enhancing the writing) and arranging the songs and picking out specific sounds that would suit each song and creating the overall atmosphere of a record.

[deepseacatfish]

Yeah, that's true. I think in the case of AGIB O'Rourke definitely had that sort of a role, I can't remember what he's credited as there.

[a.miller]

can't remember what he's credited as there.

Me either, but I remember it being pretty extensive.

[bobbob1313]

To continue the beatles theme, Martin was the ultimate producer.

[fortuneinmyhead]

geoffrey emerick might dispute some of that