Good Old Neon Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 You: Instead of saving money for health insurance, we should have the government pay for it. That way we can keep the economy going by buying useless shit.Me: Ok. Cool. So I would have to pay for other people's right to buy useless shit (as opposed to them saving their money for when they need it).I can't wait. God bless the USA. The government wouldn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 The government wouldn’t be paying for a thing, not a thing, we would, with our tax dollars – we pay the taxes that allow this system to perpetuate itself, i.e. – the government. The government is not some other, it is us, a one payer system would be us, chipping in for the benefit of all of us. Me: Ok. Cool. So I would have to pay for other people's right to buy useless shit (as opposed to them saving their money for when they need it). I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here. I don't mind a more centralized health care system, but this logic doesn't follow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 That way we can keep the economy going by buying useless shit. And to clarify, I am, in no way, in favor of buying useless shit. That is not and has never been my point. I am not a materialist insofar as the accumulation of possessions is concerned, quite the opposite actually. All these toys that are supposedly making our lives easier, less stressful, are, in my opinion, doing the exact opposite. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
austrya Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 You can still buy plasma tvs and iPods when you save up enough to be able to afford it. Trust me, I do my part to help out the economy, just ask Jay. We're just smart about it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 All these toys that are supposedly making our lives easier, less stressful, are, in my opinion, doing the exact opposite.Like the internet? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Me: Ok. Cool. So I would have to pay for other people's right to buy useless shit (as opposed to them saving their money for when they need it).I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here. I don't mind a more centralized health care system, but this logic doesn't follow. No, no, no - I Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 You can still buy plasma tvs and iPods when you save up enough to be able to afford it. Trust me, I do my part to help out the economy, just ask Jay. We're just smart about it. My most expensive, frivolous expense in the last six months was the purchase of Denis Johnson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 The Catholic Church called, they're shutting down the internets on account of this heresy. Nice work, Swirly.I'm not sure why you're so bent out of shape about the Catholics. They opposed both Iraq wars, or at least the church leadership did.So I would have to pay for other people's right to buy useless shit.Wait, weren't you just praising war's effect on the economy? It's the exact same concept. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I'm not sure why you're so bent out of shape about the Catholics. They opposed both Iraq wars, or at least the church leadership did.Wait, weren't you just praising war's effect on the economy? It's the exact same concept. Well, I do have a noticable crook in my penis on account of that priest that one time in confessional...no no, that's not true.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 You can still buy plasma tvs and iPods when you save up enough to be able to afford it. Trust me, I do my part to help out the economy, just ask Jay. We're just smart about it.The economy is no longer designed to allow for that level of patience. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 The economy is no longer designed to allow for that level of patience. Very true, and, like the president said after 9/11 - get back out there and start buying stuff and stuff - it is your patriotic duty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 Very true, and, like the president said after 9/11 - get back out there and start buying stuff and stuff - it is your patriotic duty.I did my part! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swirlaround Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I did my part!Me too bought a 1973 F250, i'm sure the economy would have collapsed if it wasn't purchased soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ikol Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Oh so your one of those that believes this war will solves problems?I believe that by killing someone's relative, then forces them off any fence they maybe sitting on and damm sure does not land them on your side of the fence. This war is about divide and concur, and control.just the using the war as we lose more and more rights and less and less control. Please tell me English is your second language. Otherwise, I'm going to have to wrap my head around the fact that Bush is against the Iraq war. Ironically, our entire economy, our entire way of life is now predicated upon you continuing to buy that useless shit, or else, as has been made quite clear, no economy. Yeah, there's no way that our economy could adjust. If your premise that Americans aren't getting enough healthcare is true, then wouldn't it follow that saving more money for medical costs would eventually lead to spending more money on healthcare which would end up fueling the economy? The government wouldn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 Me too bought a 1973 F250, i'm sure the economy would have collapsed if it wasn't purchased soon.Somewhere, Alan Greenspan heaved a sigh of relief. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ikol Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Well, I do have a noticable crook in my penis on account of that priest that one time in confessional...no no, that's not true.... When Richard Dawkins turns out to be a child molester, you're going to be pretty embarrassed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 When Richard Dawkins turns out to be a child molester, you're going to be pretty embarrassed. Now why, exactly, would I be embarrassed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Please tell me English is your second language. Otherwise, I'm going to have to wrap my head around the fact that Bush is against the Iraq war.Yeah, there's no way that our economy could adjust. If your premise that Americans aren't getting enough healthcare is true, then wouldn't it follow that saving more money for medical costs would eventually lead to spending more money on healthcare which would end up fueling the economy? I get the impression that it's not exactly the same thing. That's why the government has to do the whole coercion thing to get people to pay taxes. Do we really want the health of our economy tied to or dependent upon the general poor health of its populace? Look, the one payer system works quite well in Canada, I see no reason to think a similar system could not work just as well here at home. Interesting interview with Warren Buffet this morning on the Today show. Mr. Buffet claims 17% of his income goes towards paying taxes, while the people in his office, his secretary for example, pays out 34% of her income. Mr. Buffet claims he does not employ an accountant, has no tax shelters and simply fills out the same income tax form as the rest of us. Yet, as a multi-billionaire, he pays less in taxes, per dollar, than middle income folks. Now, why, exactly, do you think that is the case? Could it be that the much, much better off among us have basically had an unfair hand in influencing how the tax codes are written, and have used that influence to tip the balance in their favor? And what of the companies that set up a PO Box in the Bahamas and get away with paying next to no taxes? Why the hell on earth are low to middle income folks paying more taxes, per dollar, than billionaires without the help of any creative sort of bookkeeping? I think the average person would be more willing to pay their taxes if they received a greater return on their investment Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ikol Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Now why, exactly, would I be embarrassed? It was a joke. You keep making your anti-Catholic remarks (no one's ever done the priest molestation one), and I just thought the idea of a prominent evangelical atheist being a child molester and that somehow reflecting on atheism as a whole (the sort of generalization you make about Catholics) was funny. Do we really want the health of our economy tied to or dependent upon the general poor health of its populace? Look, the one payer system works quite well in Canada, I see no reason to think a similar system could not work just as well here at home. Interesting interview with Warren Buffet this morning on the Today show. Mr. Buffet claims 17% of his income goes towards paying taxes, while the people in his office, his secretary for example, pays out 34% of her income. Mr. Buffet claims he does not employ an accountant, has no tax shelters and simply fills out the same income tax form as the rest of us. Yet, as a multi-billionaire, he pays less in taxes, per dollar, than middle income folks. Now, why, exactly, do you think that is the case? Could it be that the much, much better off among us have basically had an unfair hand in influencing how the tax codes are written, and have used that influence to tip the balance in their favor? And what of the companies that set up a PO Box in the Bahamas and get away with paying next to no taxes? Why the hell on earth are low to middle income folks paying more taxes, per dollar, than billionaires without the help of any creative sort of bookkeeping? I think the average person would be more willing to pay their taxes if they received a greater return on their investment Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Mr. Buffet is also a huge proponent for generational taxes and inheritance taxes. Of course his company Berkshire Hathaway makes a lot of money by acquiring businesses from families faced with giant tax obligations due to the passing of the founders/owners Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Do we really want the health of our economy tied to or dependent upon the general poor health of its populace? Look, the one payer system works quite well in Canada, I see no reason to think a similar system could not work just as well here at home. Interesting interview with Warren Buffet this morning on the Today show. Mr. Buffet claims 17% of his income goes towards paying taxes, while the people in his office, his secretary for example, pays out 34% of her income. Mr. Buffet claims he does not employ an accountant, has no tax shelters and simply fills out the same income tax form as the rest of us. Yet, as a multi-billionaire, he pays less in taxes, per dollar, than middle income folks. Now, why, exactly, do you think that is the case? Could it be that the much, much better off among us have basically had an unfair hand in influencing how the tax codes are written, and have used that influence to tip the balance in their favor? And what of the companies that set up a PO Box in the Bahamas and get away with paying next to no taxes? Why the hell on earth are low to middle income folks paying more taxes, per dollar, than billionaires without the help of any creative sort of bookkeeping? I think the average person would be more willing to pay their taxes if they received a greater return on their investment Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 It was a joke. You keep making your anti-Catholic remarks (no one's ever done the priest molestation one), and I just thought the idea of a prominent evangelical atheist being a child molester and that somehow reflecting on atheism as a whole (the sort of generalization you make about Catholics) was funny.I think if we had either a flat income tax or a national sales tax with less deductions, there would be less of those sort of problems. And a billionaire like Buffet doesn't necessarily represent everyone with high incomes. I love it when million/billionaires advocate raising taxes on people making $100,000 a year as if they were in the same league. I don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OOO Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 ah-ah, Mr. Wilson ah-ah, Mr. Heath Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swirlaround Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Please tell me English is your second language. Otherwise, I'm going to have to wrap my head around the fact that Bush is against the Iraq war.Yeah, there's no way that our economy could adjust. If your premise that Americans aren't getting enough healthcare is true, then wouldn't it follow that saving more money for medical costs would eventually lead to spending more money on healthcare which would end up fueling the economy? I get the impression that it's not exactly the same thing. That's why the government has to do the whole coercion thing to get people to pay taxes. Sorry I see spelling and grammar is not optional on this board only thinking Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Sorry I see spelling and grammar is not optional on this board only thinking wit is optional too, so you'll be fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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