manatwo Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 So, I'm a relatively new guitar player but I know exactly they sound I'm going for - somewhere in between Robbie Robertson and Duane Allman. I've got myself a beautiful G&L Tele, no real good amp to speak of. Pedals? Amps? Settings? I've been thinking about something like a fuzz face, am I heading in the right direction? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Duane Allman that's going to be tough. Could you point to some specific songs that are close to the tone you're talking about (by any artist)? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyjimmy Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 So, I'm a relatively new guitar player but I know exactly they sound I'm going for - somewhere in between Robbie Robertson and Duane Allman. I've got myself a beautiful G&L Tele, no real good amp to speak of. Pedals? Amps? Settings? I've been thinking about something like a fuzz face, am I heading in the right direction? Thanks in advance.There's too many variables involved for me to give you any kind of comprehensive answer to your question. Not the least of which is I have no idea what either one of the artists you mentioned used as far as gear; ( Except for Duane was traditionally seen with Les Pauls and Robbie w/ Fenders ). However, you mentioned a Fuzz Face.Do this:Look to various other manufactures of Fuzz devices like, Fulltone, Zvex and Electro Harmonix. All have audio samples at their websites and most have Youtube demos.Don't do this:Buy a Dunlop produced classic Fuzz Face.They're junk unless you want to shell out to extra $$ get the thing modded. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sid Hartha Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Whatever tone you're going for, make sure you have one of these: It's only $30, and it's the most useful pedal I've ever owned. It's great for matching guitars to amps, dialing out weaknesses in pickups (especially humbuckers), adding some low end to smaller combo amps. Plus, it has an overall gain adjustment, which is great for getting some overdrive from low-output "vintage" pickups. I've also had good results using it as a "direct" interface for recording. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
the_fliz1 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Something you might want to try is getting an effects processor. I have a Digitech GNX 4 and it has any possible effect that you could want outside of a Leslie. But the GNX 4 is pretty expensive, around $500 Almost any company that makes effects pedals makes a processor and you can get some decent ones for around the same price that you can get some of the boutique type pedals. I recommend Digitech but that is just my opinion. They make some around $50, and it would help you play around and decide what tone you really want. But no matter what, the most important element to getting the tone you want is in your fingers. You would be surprised what a good consistent finger tension will do for your tone. It took me a while to figure out that you don't have to mash down on the strings to get it to sound right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
In a little rowboat Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 i suspect that youll get the closest to the sound you want by investing in a good tube amp that will break up naturally...effects are fine and fun, but will color your sound, and the classic tone youre refering to was generally accomplished without the addition of effects. You will learn alot more about the relationship between the guitar's pickups and volume/tone, and the amp, which is the most important combination in deriving tone. Sure, Hendrix used an octavia and a fuzzface and whatever, but for the most part there werent that many boxes around in 1969 (the high water mark for The Band and Duane Allman). Pedals are not the first thing to master. jobu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
manatwo Posted October 26, 2007 Author Share Posted October 26, 2007 that's going to be tough. Could you point to some specific songs that are close to the tone you're talking about (by any artist)? Wow! Thanks for the quick replies everyone. Of course I would love to have an awesome vintage tube amp, but I just blew the budget on the guitar itself so that's out of the cards for a while. Think "Caledonia Mission" by The Band off of Big Pink, or Robbie's tone as a whole on Last Waltz. Question though - I've read a lot about amps that "break up", what exactly does that mean, and how would I go about it? Gain all the way up? PS: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rockinrob Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 The sounds you are refering to are old sounds. They were not using high gain amps, or pickups, or any of our modern things that we use now. I only use an old sound, and I don't use pedals (except for an occasional fuzz box or a tremolo I built for amps without tremolo). There are several keys to getting this type of tone, and although the two of those guys have a drastically different tone, I think I have an idea of what you want to hear. As you probably know, Duane used "Plexi" marshalls. "Plexi" amps are (in a very, very, simplified way) copies of the tweed narrow panel bassman. Basically Jim's electronics guy copied that circuit with the available British parts he had. Nonetheless, there are some similarities between tweed amps and plexi amps. Robbie used tweeds, and I am guessing he probably also used Blackface amps. The trick with all three of these types that I have mentioned, is that they sound drastically different depending on how loud you have it turned up. In a way, this is how they sound (generalizing majorly) Tweeds - 50's style, decent clean sound with a lot of grainyness to it. They sound warm and distort easily. When cranked, it sounds like a nuclear reactor melting. Lo-Fi kind of amp.Marshall Plexi's - Classic rock sound. Think ACDC. They have a tight sound, with alot of bass. The cleans are ok, not as cool as a tweed, but they work. This amp wasnt really meant for a crystal clean kind of country sound. Blackface - 60's amps, THE BEST clean sound. end of story. Great sound when overdriven, and the most versatile amp ever. These were the standard for country music, and every rock band I can think of at one time or another used them. All of these are extremely responsive to changes in the guitar's volume control. I have a narrow panel fender deluxe amp, and a les paul with antiquity pickups, and I can nail the duane tone. The deluxe amp is the amp neil young has used throughout his career, and when you turn it all the way up, that is exactly what it sounds like. Another thing you need to consider is where you will be playing. In all reality, the marshall plexi (Duane used a 50 watt)and the fender bassman (45 watts) will be much too loud for you, if you want output distortion. That is why I use the deluxe (20 watts), and Marshall also makes a 18 watt plexi amp. I dont know where you live, but if you are looking for tone, you need to find these kind of amps. That is the only way to tell if you will like the sound. You cant try out a DSL marshall, or any of the other "new" ones. Youve got to find the real deal to know what you are looking for. Last bit of info: Fender and Marshall make reissues of their amps. With the exception of the over priced Fender Tweed Deluxe, and their Tweed Twin, and also the Marshall Handwired amps, they are not the same amps compared to the real deal. They use the wrong parts on the inside. Your best bet to get the true vintage sound is to get a boutiqe amp. My Tweed was built by Michael Clark, and I couldn't recommend him more, it is awesome! www.clarkamplification.com Victoria is another comapny that makes awesome tweed copies, and there are several more. Allen amplification makes cool blackface style amps, and although they are expensive, headstrong amps make the best blackface copies. For marshalls, there is Greg Germino of Germino Amplification, Blockhead, and a multitude of others, just do a search for "plexi copy". Most importantly, gear isnt that important, just crank up and have a good time, that is what is most important. Music is for communicating and sharing with people, always remember that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rockinrob Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 http://forums.viachicago.org/index.php?showtopic=31476has some things about break up. Basically, it is the tube not being able to handle the voltage applied. This is why when you pick lighter or turn down the volume on your guitar, it will get cleaner because you lower the voltage going to the tubes. I just saw that you sai you dont have a budget. Clark makes the beaufort special for 8 or 9 hundred, and that is killer for the boutique amps, but for more affordable amps, I really like the fender pro juniors. They are cool amps. Gain all the way up is not how you would want to go. On old amps, there is no gain knob, only volume. My deluxe has a volume for each channel, there are four inputs (no channel switching two for the bright channel, and two for normal) and a tone knob. The only way to get distortion is to turn the amp up, which makes it loud. This is a problem for people, so they started putting gain knobs on amps. A Gain knob is connected to a tube, and it drives the amp at the beginning so that the amp will distort itself, instead of having to crank it. The only problem is that this sounds completely different than when you turn an amp up. You can get around a gain knob by turning the master all the way up and then using the gain knob as your regular volume control (it is close to being the same as an old amp that way.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
manatwo Posted October 27, 2007 Author Share Posted October 27, 2007 Thanks again everyone. I've got some things to try out tonight. Here's me in a few years: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
In a little rowboat Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 rockinrob really nailed alot of it...ive got a 65 deluxe reverb ri (you can get a used one for under $600)...22 watts, super clean, incredible breakup, sweet reverb and vibrato, 2 channels For what i do it doesnt get better... jobu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WaronWar Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 For fuzz, I have two words for you: FUZZ FACTORY!!!!!!!!!!!! It's amazing , and is made by Z. VEX. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ginandcigarettes Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 For fuzz, I have two words for you: FUZZ FACTORY!!!!!!!!!!!! It's amazing , and is made by Z. VEX. You know, I love my Fuzz Factory, but I don't think it's all things to all people. I mostly use it when I need to bludgeon the audience or when I need a wacky, Velcro-y fuzz tone or squealing feedback. It's wonderful for those things, but if a Fuzz Face is your idea of fuzz, or if you like fuzz that's close to overdrive, the factory won't really get you there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
the_fliz1 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Fuck it. Just plug in what ever you have and turn it up to 11. Everything sounds phenomenal when your ears are bleeding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyjimmy Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 PS: That's lovely... You know, I love my Fuzz Factory, but I don't think it's all things to all people. I mostly use it when I need to bludgeon the audience or when I need a wacky, Velcro-y fuzz tone or squealing feedback. It's wonderful for those things, but if a Fuzz Face is your idea of fuzz, or if you like fuzz that's close to overdrive, the factory won't really get you there. It will actually, it's just such a pain in the ass to dial in. And once you get it there it's hard to maintain. Change a guitar, this will effect the level of distortion and either not allow the FF to break up soon enough or send you into squalling feedback. And god forbid you bump the knobs while stepping on the damn thing. It's a touchy little bastard, but it'll get you there Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oceanman Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I would imagine if you did all whole shit load of coke, that sound just might come out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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