Teacher arrested for Teddy Bear name

[darkstar]

it most certainly has not. again, you are using your own personal context and opinions here as well...nobody is debating these conflicts have occured and continue to occur, but it doesn't make the stance that culture versus your all-encompasing scapegoat of religion is the root of these conflicts historically inaccurate.

 

you keep focusing on the passages and beliefs that support your disdain for religion and cast aside the golden rule brought up before. as you said, there are conflicting passages in man's interpretation of the word of their respective Gods and it is man that is choosing to take the less peaceful and compassionate path, not this evil charachter you call 'religion'.

 

it's like all our other arguments, you are taking accountability away from an individual or group of individuals and pinning it on the over-arcing boogeyman of 'religion'.

 

 

I gotta agree with that statement about accountability from individuals. Religion itself is not inherently bad, it's what people do in the name of or guise of religion.

[EL the Famous]

Well, we were created in gods image after all. So, if we are selfish and violent, what does that say about god?

 

...but you're ommitting the part where it is understood that no one is perfect EXCEPT for God. that we all sin and will continue to do so. one should try to be as close to God as he/she can w/ the understanding while it's never truly attainable, it will still help you be a better person.

 

again, you aren't looking at the entire picture...only the pieces that support your stance and ignoring the rest.

[Good Old Neon]

it most certainly has not. again, you are using your own personal context and opinions here as well...nobody is debating these conflicts have occured and continue to occur, but it doesn't make the stance that culture versus your all-encompasing scapegoat of religion is the root of these conflicts historically inaccurate.

 

you keep focusing on the passages and beliefs that support your disdain for religion and cast aside the golden rule brought up before. as you said, there are conflicting passages in man's interpretation of the word of their respective Gods and it is man that is choosing to take the less peaceful and compassionate path, not this evil charachter you call 'religion'.

 

it's like all our other arguments, you are taking accountability away from an individual or group of individuals and pinning it on the over-arcing boogeyman of 'religion'.

 

But again, both the Bible and the Koran condone acts of violence

[M. (hristine]

And what of the conflict and animosity between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland

[Spawn's dad]

You simply cannot have it both ways.

 

I actually think you can. The Buddha stated several times in the Pali scriptures not to take his word for anything, but for his followers to investigate for themselves. If you find the teachings increase peace and wisdom continue on, if not stop.

 

[EL the Famous]

But again, both the Bible and the Koran condone acts of violence

[Good Old Neon]

Again, you can call it whatever you want. I try to apprehend things from the inside out, and from there it seems pretty simple, and in this post I will funnel it down to the core premise of most "religions".

 

I would liken the Irish "Troubles" to what I would call tribal issues, and take away the religious moniker, similar to the racial dis-ease and prejudice in this country which is more familiar to me. Tribal passion comes from the same place that desire for power comes. Us and them.

 

(And now I am going to reveal the secret of the universe. The secret that most religious texts seek to teach, however masked it might be in the cultural contexts from which they are written.)

 

Both passion and desire for power arise from the ego's notion that each of us is somehow separate from the other. There I said it.

 

Religion doesn't create that notion. Do people use it for that purpose? You bet. Same as we use skin color, sexual preference, tribal alliances and gender. Ad nauseam.

 

True spiritual practice allows us through DIRECT EXPERIENCE to see the fallacy there. And when you start talking about some kind of evil to be found in that, I get kind of cranky.

 

Now it sounds as though we are arguing over semantics

[M. (hristine]

*sigh*

 

Your questions are valid ones. Were I able to answer them (the questions which humans have sought to answer for generations upon generations), I would not be debating on a message board.

 

You are blaming religion as the cause of conflict. I am saying that the wrong that is done in the name of religion is not the cause but the symptom.

 

I am simply suggesting that we not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[Good Old Neon]

*sigh*

 

Your questions are valid ones. Were I able to answer them (the questions which humans have sought to answer for generations upon generations), I would not be debating on a message board.

 

You are blaming religion as the cause of conflict. I am saying that the wrong that is done in the name of religion is not the cause but the symptom.

 

I am simply suggesting that we not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

 

Fair enough, and my point is that it is both a cause and a symptom, but not only a symptom.

 

And my other point, I guess, is that once you start asking these sorts of questions, poking around, the entire edifice starts to crumble.

[M. (hristine]

Fair enough, and my point is that it is both a cause and a symptom, but not only a symptom.

 

And my other point, I guess, is that once you start asking these sorts of questions, poking around, the entire edifice starts to crumble.

 

Again, the cause is our perceived separateness.

 

What edifice?

I mean the Pali scriptures come as close to transcending the culture in which they were written as any spiritual text I've read. And as near to perfect instruction as I have read. Other spiritual texts have at their core the same instruction. Words are tricky though, and the human mind is rather clever at manipulating the meanings to suit their own purposes.

 

What I apprehend spiritually has come from personal diligent practice. I fear that your agenda would be to try and take that away from me. I fear that you want to throw out this baby with the bathwater.

[EL the Famous]

Now it sounds as though we are arguing over semantics

[Good Old Neon]

Again, the cause is our perceived separateness.

 

What edifice?

I mean the Pali scriptures come as close to transcending the culture in which they were written as any spiritual text I've read. And as near to perfect instruction as I have read. Other spiritual texts have at their core the same instruction. Words are tricky though, and the human mind is rather clever at manipulating the meanings to suit their own purposes.

 

What I apprehend spiritually has come from personal diligent practice. I fear that your agenda would be to try and take that away from me. I fear that you want to throw out this baby with the bathwater.

 

My goodness, not at all.

 

By edifice, I mean the existence of an all knowing, all seeing (and please forgive my usage here I know that offends some people, but that is essentially what the god of the bible is, if we strip it right down to its core.) sky god that is concerned with the lives and matters of man. That if you follow the bible or the Koran, you will spend an eternity in heaven, or conversely, if you do not, you will spend an eternity in hell. Or the idea that man is not a product of evolution, or that the earth is only two or six or whatever thousands of years old.

 

I don

[Good Old Neon]

so you are completely ignoring the whole 'can't have it both ways w/ the bible thing' thing then? your going even further into that by suggesting you are okay w/ the other concepts of religion outside of christian and muslim, but how can that be on the basis they are not based in science?!

 

and you are providing your own definition to the concept of a 'soul' now too. interesting. could i challenge that something like Alzheimer

[Spawn's dad]

'we' are not whipping anyone. a small group of people are intending to. it befuddles me that you can't see how the edificie of your arguments crumble when you resort to such absurd characterizations.

 

Buddhism has nothing to do with reincarnation, but rebirth -- which has to do with the continuation of certain consciousnesses with a primary characteristic of grasping -- what you refer to is an wholly Tibetan melding of their indigenous Bon culture, and in no way shape or form has anything to do with any core tenants the Buddha preached. In fact, he flatly refused to answer any question on the subject as being irrelevant to the eradication of suffering.

[Good Old Neon]

'we' are not whipping anyone. a small group of people are intending to. it befuddles me that you can't see how the edificie of your arguments crumble when you resort to such absurd characterizations.

 

That was not intended to be taken literally, as if we are all lining up to have a go. I was speaking in larger, more general terms.

[Spawn's dad]

ok. nobody thinks anyone should be whipped.

[EL the Famous]

Well, until we have concrete, scientific evidence to suggest otherwise, that you are indeed in possession of a separate soul, me, I

[embiggen]

convicted! unfuckingbelievable!

 

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/11/29...ears/index.html

[Spawn's dad]

wrong thread

[embiggen]

calm down

[M. (hristine]

[Sir Stewart]

Sad.

[Good Old Neon]

great thing about faith, that...i don't have provide evidence to anybody but myself. i'm not disagreeing that you can modify ones personality and sense of self by tinkering w/ their brain, i'm just disagreeing that you take away their soul.

 

 

 

see, that's why people get on your case so much...you present your opinions as fact. it's not 'but that is what i think' it's that what you think is what it is.

 

And that is fine, I have no issue with the way in which you express your individual faith. But not all religiously minded folk are as reasonable as you, EL. I know that is a generalization, but without actual names and address

[EL the Famous]

all arguments about religion aside, it really is wrong and a horrible situation.

[EL the Famous]

There exists in this and other countries, a very large body of religious folks who do believe their religious beliefs should be, through laws, governance, or whatnot, forced on others who do not share those beliefs. Again, I know I am generalizing, but when referring to large topics, we are sort of forced to paint with a broad brush.

 

Well, that is because I am an atheist, and as an atheist, I view the current iteration of god as just one more link in a chain stretching back to our distant past. Hundreds if not thousands of similar gods have fallen out of favor, simply disappeared, and are no longer worshipped. This has occurred many times throughout our history